339 réponses à ce sujet

[sassperella]

There has been no firm comment on the lack of availability of the sig edition in Europe. At least some have been confirmed as miscommunications due to the nature of the sig edition and I believe some are being re-instated.

Offering you free stuff as a marketing technique is nothing new. But the point is that it is extra stuff and if you want it in any other edition you have to pay, that is fair enough. But there are plenty of people that like to jump on any company that sells dlc and troll their threads but in this case it's something different. It's not the same issue as the fable 3 black dyes, it's a case of people feeling upset because they missed out on an offer and rather than accepting it they're trying to blame the developers.
Game companies are struggling at the moment, since the market crash a few years ago there have been studios closing, big companies culling staff and share prices plummeting. Of course they are going to try and make money, it's that or die. But in this case everyone was offered something for free all they had to do was order in time. You failed to do that now you're trolling.

[Azarh]

It's depressing to see how many people defend the DLC concept...Ignoring the fact that the games become shorter and brain-dead easy to play, people got used to idea that is ok to pay for every bit, be it a map, a npc or an item...

I don't want to use the Baldur's Gate comparison again, but why was it ok 11 years ago to make a game that had 100 hours of gameplay, with tons of side quests, class specific quests, etc, and now you have to pay (yes, you don't have to pay, but if you like the lore or some npcs, you HAVE to pay) for almost anything, what changed beside the fact Bioware got richer? You'd expect they'd make better games, but dumb games are bought by dumb people who also happen to be in large numbers...oh well *sigh*

Modifié par Azarh, 03 mars 2011 - 11:22 .

[TubularGlucose]

LyonVanguard wrote...

 Ok... wait... what?
Why couldn't they add this content to the retail game?
You expect me to pay $7.00 right after I payed $60.00 for a DIGITAL copy of a game?

I'm unasure if this reply has been said yet (Don't want to read nine pages of comments just to see)
But the main reason that they put in extra dlc at release is because it's labeled "Day One" now the reasoning behind this is mainly because of pirates, not greedy companies, not that the greedy part doesn't effect sometimes. But it's because people can easily pirate their games for Consoles, I mean the 360 is mediocre to Mod, Ps3 is simple as pie, and the PC I mean c'mon nearly half of PC games get leaked a week before their launch date.
So with all this developers need some way to entice players to purchase their games retail and not do it through a different median.

[ColdbringeR]

sassperella wrote...

There has been no firm comment on the lack of availability of the sig edition in Europe. At least some have been confirmed as miscommunications due to the nature of the sig edition and I believe some are being re-instated.

Offering you free stuff as a marketing technique is nothing new. But the point is that it is extra stuff and if you want it in any other edition you have to pay, that is fair enough. But there are plenty of people that like to jump on any company that sells dlc and troll their threads but in this case it's something different. It's not the same issue as the fable 3 black dyes, it's a case of people feeling upset because they missed out on an offer and rather than accepting it they're trying to blame the developers.
Game companies are struggling at the moment, since the market crash a few years ago there have been studios closing, big companies culling staff and share prices plummeting. Of course they are going to try and make money, it's that or die. But in this case everyone was offered something for free all they had to do was order in time. You failed to do that now you're trolling.

Now you're misrepresenting people in this thread. I'm not upset at all that I missed out on the SE offer, nor do I even care about the extra $7 I would have to pay as a result on order to make up the difference. I simply find  EA/Bioware's marketing techniques distateful because, as pointed out earlier, they make some consumers feel like they can't just buy a complete product at release anymore.

Also, you apparently don't understand what trolling is.

[Noviere]

ColdbringeR wrote...

This is a poor analogy as well. Since "pie" by definition does not include ice cream, the ice cream is inherently extra. Dragon Age 2, on the other hand, cannot be defined so easily as pie. Something that is "extra" could simply be game content that was omitted in order to be advertised as "extra". Because we, the consumers, have no way to differentiate regular game content from extra game content, perhaps DLCs available at release are not a considerate technique for selling "extra" content to consumers.

I can understand your point of view. As consumers we have no way of knowing whether or not Sebastian was part of the game initially, and then removed to be sold as an extra. Even if the development for Sebastian was paid for out of the marketing budget, some people will still think he should've been free.

[Abbbe]

I hope Bioware takes note of the bad press these marketing strategies are accumulating and try to be more sensible in their future releases.

Bethesda, for example, infamous for their "horse armour" DLC now mostly do it right.

[sassperella]

ColdbringeR wrote...

sassperella wrote...

There has been no firm comment on the lack of availability of the sig edition in Europe. At least some have been confirmed as miscommunications due to the nature of the sig edition and I believe some are being re-instated.

Offering you free stuff as a marketing technique is nothing new. But the point is that it is extra stuff and if you want it in any other edition you have to pay, that is fair enough. But there are plenty of people that like to jump on any company that sells dlc and troll their threads but in this case it's something different. It's not the same issue as the fable 3 black dyes, it's a case of people feeling upset because they missed out on an offer and rather than accepting it they're trying to blame the developers.
Game companies are struggling at the moment, since the market crash a few years ago there have been studios closing, big companies culling staff and share prices plummeting. Of course they are going to try and make money, it's that or die. But in this case everyone was offered something for free all they had to do was order in time. You failed to do that now you're trolling.

Now you're misrepresenting people in this thread. I'm not upset at all that I missed out on the SE offer, nor do I even care about the extra $7 I would have to pay as a result on order to make up the difference. I simply find  EA/Bioware's marketing techniques distateful because, as pointed out earlier, they make some consumers feel like they can't just buy a complete product at release anymore.

Also, you apparently don't understand what trolling is.

sigh... you miss the point. You do get a complete game, and you were offered extra free to pre-order it before a certain date, people doing this would pre-order anyway so it makes no odds to them. the only ones upset are the ones that missed the deadline. The game is complete without the dlc What part of being offered extra as an incentive don't you understand? People that feel they are only getting half a game didn't order in time because otherwise they'd feel they had the whole game, even though this would be untrue as the whole game is without the dlc.

anyway I'm out, I'll just enjoy my game at release and you can all feel bitter and twisted and make your stand if you like.

[Noviere]

Abbbe wrote...

Bethesda, for example, infamous for their "horse armour" DLC now mostly do it right.

Poor Bethesda -- horse armor will forever be used as an example of how not to do DLC.

[sassperella]

Noviere wrote...

ColdbringeR wrote...

This is a poor analogy as well. Since "pie" by definition does not include ice cream, the ice cream is inherently extra. Dragon Age 2, on the other hand, cannot be defined so easily as pie. Something that is "extra" could simply be game content that was omitted in order to be advertised as "extra". Because we, the consumers, have no way to differentiate regular game content from extra game content, perhaps DLCs available at release are not a considerate technique for selling "extra" content to consumers.

I can understand your point of view. As consumers we have no way of knowing whether or not Sebastian was part of the game initially, and then removed to be sold as an extra. Even if the development for Sebastian was paid for out of the marketing budget, some people will still think he should've been free.

It IS free if you bought the sig edition as it was an offer with that edition, you just pay extra if you didn't get that edition.

[Abbbe]

Noviere wrote...

Abbbe wrote...

Bethesda, for example, infamous for their "horse armour" DLC now mostly do it right.

Poor Bethesda -- horse armor will forever be used as an example of how not to do DLC.

I feel that Bioware's marketing and DLC strategies are very "horse-armory" at this time.

http://www.rockpaper...-this-is-silly/

I agree with Jhon Walker. The mistake is the appearance of greed. 

[Suron]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Suron wrote...

y'know. I'm fine with DLC. I'm even fine with DLC relatively soon after launch.

AFTER LAUNCH

you have a damn trailer advertising this crap before the GDAMN game is even OUT.

tacky as all hell..and you wonder why so many get on you about bowing to your new EA masters.

I don't mean to sound like a douchecanoe here, Suron, but we are not obliged to ask your permission or run our schedule or decisions through you, so I'm sorry if you disagree with what we do. Those decisions are still ours to make, however, so please temper your disagreement with a measure of courtesy and respect. i'd appreciate it. Thank you for your feedback.

It is possible, even on the internet, to disagree with or dislike a thing without that thing being THE WORST THING EVAR THAT KICKED MY PUPPY!

never said you had to ask my permission for anything did I?

the fact you have DLC with a "EPIC COMPANION QUEST" before your game is even out is tacky, fact.  But I don't expect you to see it any other way considering you're a Bio employee..and Even if you did you certainly wouldn't post the disagreement on the very forums your company runs.

You really see nothing wrong with basically saying "hey, buy our $60 game! and btw for only $7 more you can get THIS TOO..it's EPIC" (the "epic" being in your own trailer)

It's tacky.  End of story.  If you take offense to that I don't know what to tell you.  And it's exactly why people accuse you of "holding things back in order to sell DLC." because, that's exactly how it looks. (Yes -I- know you may not have had time to put it in and it wouldn't have been anyway) but that's irrelevant because that's not how it comes across.

And if you cant take criticism without getting offended then..well..yah..don't accuse me of being anything when you can't take criticism. 

And speaking of being courteous, please don't put words in my mouth.  Thanks.

[ColdbringeR]

sassperella wrote...

ColdbringeR wrote...

sassperella wrote...

There has been no firm comment on the lack of availability of the sig edition in Europe. At least some have been confirmed as miscommunications due to the nature of the sig edition and I believe some are being re-instated.

Offering you free stuff as a marketing technique is nothing new. But the point is that it is extra stuff and if you want it in any other edition you have to pay, that is fair enough. But there are plenty of people that like to jump on any company that sells dlc and troll their threads but in this case it's something different. It's not the same issue as the fable 3 black dyes, it's a case of people feeling upset because they missed out on an offer and rather than accepting it they're trying to blame the developers.
Game companies are struggling at the moment, since the market crash a few years ago there have been studios closing, big companies culling staff and share prices plummeting. Of course they are going to try and make money, it's that or die. But in this case everyone was offered something for free all they had to do was order in time. You failed to do that now you're trolling.

Now you're misrepresenting people in this thread. I'm not upset at all that I missed out on the SE offer, nor do I even care about the extra $7 I would have to pay as a result on order to make up the difference. I simply find  EA/Bioware's marketing techniques distateful because, as pointed out earlier, they make some consumers feel like they can't just buy a complete product at release anymore.

Also, you apparently don't understand what trolling is.

sigh... you miss the point. You do get a complete game, and you were offered extra free to pre-order it before a certain date, people doing this would pre-order anyway so it makes no odds to them. the only ones upset are the ones that missed the deadline. The game is complete without the dlc What part of being offered extra as an incentive don't you understand? People that feel they are only getting half a game didn't order in time because otherwise they'd feel they had the whole game, even though this would be untrue as the whole game is without the dlc.

anyway I'm out, I'll just enjoy my game at release and you can all feel bitter and twisted and make your stand if you like.

And I say that you're missing the point. Again, these marketing techniques make some of the consumers feel as if they are forced to pay more to get the "complete" (the quotation marks are in place to demonstrate that this is a subjective term at this point) game upon release. Not everyone keeps track of these offers, and not everyone prefers to preorder their games. Some people don't even realize DA2 is coming out until they see it on a store shelf. Others may prefer to read reviews before buying their games. These are the kinds of people who may feel like they are getting screwed over, and I simply feel that it is understandable and the result of a poorly implimented marketing strategy.

[Abbbe]

One thing I'd really like to hear from a Bioware developer is the removal of in-game characters asking for real money in order to embark on their quest like in DAO. I think that's almost morally reprehensible.

[Noviere]

Abbbe wrote...

I feel that Bioware's marketing and DLC strategies are very "horse-armory" at this time.

http://www.rockpaper...-this-is-silly/

I agree with Jhon Walker. The mistake is the appearance of greed. 

I love RPS(as long as I don't read the comments -- the people there seem to hate everything). John does make a good point in that article. Bioware is a company that owes a lot of it's success to it's good name in the industry. Stuff like this clearly tarnishes their reputation in the eyes of some.

[Emzamination]

sassperella wrote...

ColdbringeR wrote...

sassperella wrote...

There has been no firm comment on the lack of availability of the sig edition in Europe. At least some have been confirmed as miscommunications due to the nature of the sig edition and I believe some are being re-instated.

Offering you free stuff as a marketing technique is nothing new. But the point is that it is extra stuff and if you want it in any other edition you have to pay, that is fair enough. But there are plenty of people that like to jump on any company that sells dlc and troll their threads but in this case it's something different. It's not the same issue as the fable 3 black dyes, it's a case of people feeling upset because they missed out on an offer and rather than accepting it they're trying to blame the developers.
Game companies are struggling at the moment, since the market crash a few years ago there have been studios closing, big companies culling staff and share prices plummeting. Of course they are going to try and make money, it's that or die. But in this case everyone was offered something for free all they had to do was order in time. You failed to do that now you're trolling.

Now you're misrepresenting people in this thread. I'm not upset at all that I missed out on the SE offer, nor do I even care about the extra $7 I would have to pay as a result on order to make up the difference. I simply find  EA/Bioware's marketing techniques distateful because, as pointed out earlier, they make some consumers feel like they can't just buy a complete product at release anymore.

Also, you apparently don't understand what trolling is.

sigh... you miss the point. You do get a complete game, and you were offered extra free to pre-order it before a certain date, people doing this would pre-order anyway so it makes no odds to them. the only ones upset are the ones that missed the deadline. The game is complete without the dlc What part of being offered extra as an incentive don't you understand? People that feel they are only getting half a game didn't order in time because otherwise they'd feel they had the whole game, even though this would be untrue as the whole game is without the dlc.

anyway I'm out, I'll just enjoy my game at release and you can all feel bitter and twisted and make your stand if you like.

^ This is why skeptical and picky people always get the short end of the stick.The demo and game play footage was shown twice in game informer waaaay before the dead line .

[ColdbringeR]

Abbbe wrote...

Noviere wrote...

Abbbe wrote...

Bethesda, for example, infamous for their "horse armour" DLC now mostly do it right.

Poor Bethesda -- horse armor will forever be used as an example of how not to do DLC.

I feel that Bioware's marketing and DLC strategies are very "horse-armory" at this time.

http://www.rockpaper...-this-is-silly/

I agree with Jhon Walker. The mistake is the appearance of greed. 

I agree with John Walker as well. A well-written post that tactfully expresses some of the concerns I, and others, have when it comes to DLC.

Modifié par ColdbringeR, 03 mars 2011 - 12:02 .

[Noviere]

Abbbe wrote...

One thing I'd really like to hear from a Bioware developer is the removal of in-game characters asking for real money in order to embark on their quest like in DAO. I think that's almost morally reprehensible.

I don't think it is morally reprehensible... I just think it is tacky.

If they feel the need to advertise, they should do it in the launcher... Not in the game.

[sassperella]

Abbbe wrote...

One thing I'd really like to hear from a Bioware developer is the removal of in-game characters asking for real money in order to embark on their quest like in DAO. I think that's almost morally reprehensible.

this I do agree with, I don't think they should give you quests in game that then ask for your credit card, I do find that offensive.

[ColdbringeR]

double post (sorry)

Modifié par ColdbringeR, 03 mars 2011 - 12:02 .

[ColdbringeR]

Emzamination wrote...

^ This is why skeptical and picky people always get the short end of the stick.The demo and game play footage was shown twice in game informer waaaay before the dead line .

Yes, because we all read Game Informer. <_<

Modifié par ColdbringeR, 03 mars 2011 - 12:08 .

[Emzamination]

Abbbe wrote...

One thing I'd really like to hear from a Bioware developer is the removal of in-game characters asking for real money in order to embark on their quest like in DAO. I think that's almost morally reprehensible.

You seriously can't be talking about shale.

[Abbbe]

Emzamination wrote...

Abbbe wrote...

One thing I'd really like to hear from a Bioware developer is the removal of in-game characters asking for real money in order to embark on their quest like in DAO. I think that's almost morally reprehensible.

You seriously can't be talking about shale.

I'm talking about the quest giver for Warden's Keep, and the later patched-in quest giver for King Cailan's armor.

The latter encounter plays out like this:
You find a dying emissary of the King ambushed in an unknown forest, your options are to either let the man agonize or get out your wallet and credit card.

[Aidunno]

ColdbringeR wrote...

This is a poor analogy as well. Since "pie" by definition does not include ice cream, the ice cream is inherently extra. Dragon Age 2, on the other hand, cannot be defined so easily as pie. Something that is "extra" could simply be game content that was omitted in order to be advertised as "extra". Because we, the consumers, have no way to differentiate regular game content from extra game content, perhaps DLCs available at release are not a considerate technique for selling "extra" content to consumers.

Does the manufacturer state it is the complete game : yes. Can you play the complete game without DLC : yes. The manufacturer sells a completed product. Product may come with extras..

That's a fairly common selling model. Cars have been doing it for years. This model has air-con, internal navigation etc, this  model doesn't and is cheaper. Doesn't matter if the original car spec internal to the company has air-con in it and it was removed later. They do not sell the "base car" with it, it's an extra. If they tried to sell the base car as a car with no steering wheel however I think we all would have a right to complain. This isn't the case with DLC.

Edit: The way extra DLC was marketed in DAO was very tacky although it seens to work in F2P MMO's. Probably why I don't play those.

Modifié par Aidunno, 03 mars 2011 - 12:23 .

[LPPrince]

Lets use an analogy, shall we?

Go to McDonald's. See the Big Mac? Delicious burger(to me, at least).

Lets say its $3.50.

Then, you've got the Big Mac Meal. Medium Fries and a Drink for lets say $5.

You can choose to get just the sandwich, or you can choose to get the meal.

The fries and the drink are OPTIONAL. They do not make up part of a Big Mac, and ordering a Big Mac does not mean you have an incomplete meal as the Big Mac is the CORE of the product.

Lets compare-


Go to a video game retailer. See Dragon Age 2? Great game(lets assume).

Lets say its $59.99.

Then, you've got The Exiled Prince DLC. A DLC purchased online for lets say $7.

You can choose to get just the game, or you can choose to get the game along with the DLC.

The DLC is OPTIONAL. IT does not make up part of the main game, and purchasing Dragon Age 2 does not mean you have an incomplete game as Dragon Age 2 is the CORE of the product.



I now fully expect to see every single person here who is complaining about the DLC(besides those in Europe affected by the cancellations as I feel terribly sorry for you guys and girls overseas) to go to your local fast food joints and complain.

Or go to a car dealership and complain.

Or go to a bookstore and complain.

Or go to all the stores in a mall and complain.

I'll wait.

[Mdym]

Day one dlc is nothing more than deleting content that should have been in the main game, but instead is being used to rape the buyer of more money for an already over priced game. Just canceled my pre order. There are tons of good games out right now I can play, thanks EA for helping me decide what games not to buy so I can support developers who deserve it.