237 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellosanta]

Riloux wrote...

Hellosanta wrote...

It seems that I fail to grasp the idea of classic RPG stuff. What does naysayer talk about classic RPG actually sounds like D&D based TRPG. Also, does people realize that "classic" means "old" not "bible"? They are actually saying that they want RPGs that is like the ones from decades ago. How about saying "I don't like this stupid MS word on computer, I want classic typewriter back," sounds like?
So much hate for any changes. I don't get this.

If you can't make a proper analogy, don't try.

Time and advancements have made-- a typewriter, for example-- more efficient and featureful, transforming it into modern day MS Word. The opposite is true for RPGs. Complexitiy has waned and simplicitiy has taken over. In the field of video games, this has led to passive entertainment. Mindless amusement. Great for some, not for others.

Bioware is one of the few companies that consistently caters to fans of classic RPGs who enjoy complex, time-consuming and epic gameplay. Some of us are disappointed to see them going back on that.

So, just explain your so-called "complexity" instead of just keep saying that complexity is gone and new games are dumbed down because of simplicity. I don't think make things simpler means dumbing down. Also I really don't get why you are still holding on to DA2 after all those your I-hate-DA2-so-much kind of posts.

[Anathemic]

nelly21 wrote...

Tooly McToolbag says...

(Insert haughty voice)

What has happened to BioWare? I recently played the demo and upon doing so, I was most discouraged. I was unable to keep up with the speed of the combat which indubitably means that it has been dumbed down (have to insert key phrases). Furthermore, while I have no experience in game production myself, my 30+ years of gaming have made me an obvious expert at making successful games and it is quite obvious that this will not be a successful game. Not that it should be mind you as high sales numbers invariably mean that the game has been made for the lowest common denominator (remember key phrases) and would not be worthy of my time.

In summation, I believe that this game is utter garbage based on my 30 minute demo playthrough. I shall be canceling my pre-order post haste and surely, I will be only one of the millions of betrayed RPG fans who will be doing the same. My palette will only be reserved for the truly mature fare, such as the Witcher. In the mean time, I will make the entirely reasonable request of having BioWare refund my pre-order forthwith. What's that? They aren't selling me the game? Oh you poor simpleton! When we intellectuals make our demands, we get them without question!

Sincerely,

Tooly McToolbag

RIP RPG: 1970-2011

Again. The purpose of a demo is to have the player formulate an opinion on whether to buy the game or not.

[Saibh]

SomeBug wrote...

Flipping of any kind is stupid.

So is yelling so loud that you knock someone off their feet.

DAO combat wasn't realistic, it was just slow and no one did anything flashy.

[Gvaz]

jacobdg wrote...

It has the same feel of Origins, you should all stop trolling.

Barely.

[Vicious]

Thread starter finds an article that discusses Bioware's departure from the classic RPG genre and does a thread. Only to then proceed to discuss his/her intended point: That Skyrim > DA2.

Successful troll is successful!!

[da0Xeffect]

Darji wrote...

da0Xeffect wrote...

I like games for incredible story telling and being able to face consequences of your decision. It bothers me when I see threads like this because it's like they're mocking those who will continue to play even if they are not cRPGs. I've always held Bioware as the ones that produce great story-telling games above all else and I'm fine with that.

What great stories? The story in Mass effect is a joke. Its neither deep nor good writing. Yeah the presentation is good but thats it.  Also which consequnces? Again Mass effect almost none choice you made in 1 is important in 2. Yes you have guest cameos buts thats it. And in 2 there are none either, If someone dies it all depends if you do their missions and if you put them in the right spot. Which is not even a decision ist comon sense. 

Origins made you a few huge decisions but in the end only the end part was important because in the middle parts like in the Mage tower or in Redcliff its always ended in the same way maybe with someone else dieing.

If you want a game like MAss effect and where choices and your actions matter play Alpha Protocol. This game does a far more better job in this than every Bioware game since Kotor.

I never even mentioned Mass Effect but okay... Anyway that's your opinion on the story. I enjoyed it and I hold a good story over gameplay more often than not

[Gvaz]

nelly21 wrote...

Tooly McToolbag says...

(Insert haughty voice)

What has happened to BioWare? I recently played the demo and upon doing so, I was most discouraged. I was unable to keep up with the speed of the combat which indubitably means that it has been dumbed down (have to insert key phrases). Furthermore, while I have no experience in game production myself, my 30+ years of gaming have made me an obvious expert at making successful games and it is quite obvious that this will not be a successful game. Not that it should be mind you as high sales numbers invariably mean that the game has been made for the lowest common denominator (remember key phrases) and would not be worthy of my time.

In summation, I believe that this game is utter garbage based on my 30 minute demo playthrough. I shall be canceling my pre-order post haste and surely, I will be only one of the millions of betrayed RPG fans who will be doing the same. My palette will only be reserved for the truly mature fare, such as the Witcher. In the mean time, I will make the entirely reasonable request of having BioWare refund my pre-order forthwith. What's that? They aren't selling me the game? Oh you poor simpleton! When we intellectuals make our demands, we get them without question!

Sincerely,

Tooly McToolbag

RIP RPG: 1970-2011

Don't sign your posts with your Pen Name please.

[Piecake]

Anathemic wrote...

Piecake wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Sure, but a dev company is to decided based on player feedback (atleast that's how i view it with past games from different dev companies).

That's what they did

Not really, why do you think peopel complain on these forums? Because the direction of the game doesn't go into accordance with their view and thus the feedback (negative)

Yes, really. Surprisingly, people have different tastes and complained about different things.  You can't please everyone.  Fans of DAO didn't have the same opinion of the game or its individual components

[Merced652]

Saibh wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

Flipping of any kind is stupid.

So is yelling so loud that you knock someone off their feet.

DAO combat wasn't realistic, it was just slow and no one did anything flashy.

And this was a tragedy?

Yikes.

[Selene Moonsong]

*sigh* Not much discussion going on here beyond what appears to be trolling and baiting...

...Lockdown!

[Anathemic]

Piecake wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Piecake wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Sure, but a dev company is to decided based on player feedback (atleast that's how i view it with past games from different dev companies).

That's what they did

Not really, why do you think peopel complain on these forums? Because the direction of the game doesn't go into accordance with their view and thus the feedback (negative)

Yes, really. Surprisingly, people have different tastes and complained about different things.  You can't please everyone.  Fans of DAO didn't have the same opinion of the game or its individual components

Sure you can't please everyone, but you must make an attempt to try (again going back on past expereince with other dev companies).

[Veex]

Anathemic wrote...

Sure, but a dev company is to decided based on player feedback (atleast that's how i view it with past games from different dev companies).

An excellent point. It makes me wonder why BioWare felt the need to upgrade the combat. Was probably player feedback, no?

[Sidney]

The Luddites here just want to have BG2 vomited up on them time after time...hey look, it's the Witcher *slobber*. I've been playing CRPG's long enough to be done with most of the tropes of the genre as long as the core is salvaged., There are only two core mechanisms that separate RPG;s from anything else:
1. Player Characters. All games have avatars but in an RPG you have the avatar execute your will and do not directly his outcomes. The "select target and attack" being the classic but the DAO "select lock - character opens lock" as opposed to the FNV hairpin lockpicking mini-game is the same thing. The ME and FO series have gone a long way from this concept - combat,hacking, lockpicking, and others are all player controlled not player character controlled DA2 doesn't have that problem from the demo.
2. Player Effect on the World. Some will argue this poitning to more linear JRPG's but the ability of the PC to exert an influence on the world. Something like Assasin's Creed or Uncharted doesn;t do that. You play a guy who does what every other guy does. My character is the sum of those choices and is therefore different than your (likely). DA2 doesn't threaten that.

So much else the Luddites bleat on about are just generic game mechanisms. Looting isn't RPG unique, neither is inventory, or weapon customization - and worse DA2 doesn't even break from that tradition in most cases - oh wait, I can't play dress up with my companions, run for the hills! In a lot of cases these elements are the worst parts of games and anyone who fumbled around with BG2 and ME1 inventories can attest to.

Finally a lot of "old school" appears to revolve around DAO. Character race wasn't selectable allowed in FO, Darklands, PST, KoTOR, Gothic II , Ultima IV, Wasteland just to name a few. You had a fixed background in FO, FO2, BG, PST, KoTOR and so on. MM6 didn't even let you pick classes IIRC. The "dumbed down" might want to look at something like BG2 where you had what 5 - 10 on the high side selectable skills in most classes with 3 or 4 just being upgrades of other skills and mages getting "Extra level X spell" as a skill. Imagine the howls if DA2 had so few skills. Combat in Morrowind and Oblivion are a lot faster and a lot more "Actiony" than anything in DA2 - heck I have aim and raise/lower my shields in time with opponent attacks.... WTF? In other words, a lot of what "was" never really was.

There's nothing wrong with a DAO style RPG. I loved the heck out of the game and played it origins to Witch Hunt with 4 different characters but it isn't the only RPG ever made and it isn't the end all and be all of RPG's.