237 réponses à ce sujet

[Darji]

night0205 wrote...

I don't know if I agree with everything that article is saying but I do know that Oblivion is a dumbed down Morrowind, Mass Effect 2 is a dumbed down Mass Effect, Dragon Age 2 is a dumbed down Dragon Age Origins... The only franchise that is better for it is Mass Effect, because it has always been Action/RPG hybrid at it's heart, and works better as one. With that said, I've played Morrowind over and over and over... hours and hours... uncountable... and I played Oblivion about a couple hours.. Couldn't get into it. I played Dragon Age Origins about 13 play throughs of the main campaign... and I can almost guarantee, I won't be playing DA 2 that much. There is a truth that over this past decade games have gotten dumber, requiring less effort, and the quality of depth (for the most part) has gone down. Take that as you will. Dragon Age Origins was a gem for it's time, because there aren't any other games like it in recent years.

Yeah thats the main point here. But with Oblivion its a whole diferent thing because the modding  community is just fantastic and they always fix the stuff Bethesda does to please the consolecrowd and the console controlsheme.

You wont have this with a game like Dragon Age 2. Its not even confirmed that they will have modding tools and even if the community is very small compared o the elder scrolls one.

[OmegaBlue0231]

night0205 wrote...

I don't know if I agree with everything that article is saying but I do know that Oblivion is a dumbed down Morrowind, Mass Effect 2 is a dumbed down Mass Effect, Dragon Age 2 is a dumbed down Dragon Age Origins... The only franchise that is better for it is Mass Effect, because it has always been Action/RPG hybrid at it's heart, and works better as one. With that said, I've played Morrowind over and over and over... hours and hours... uncountable... and I played Oblivion about a couple hours.. Couldn't get into it. I played Dragon Age Origins about 13 play throughs of the main campaign... and I can almost guarantee, I won't be playing DA 2 that much. There is a truth that over this past decade games have gotten dumber, requiring less effort, and the quality of depth (for the most part) has gone down. Take that as you will. Dragon Age Origins was a gem for it's time, because there aren't any other games like it in recent years.

No, they just made things that were very hard to do easier, that's not dumbing them down that's making them more accessible to a wider audience and not just the hardcore gamer. They're still a challenge, just not enough for some it seems.

[Anathemic]

Merced652 wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Merced652 wrote...


Niether of them do demos because you know what you're getting, not because its a risk. Everyone knew sc2 was going to be a RTS, everyone knows d3 will be a hack & slash dungeon crawl, no pandering to consoles required.

Actually, I do count beta-tests as demos. Players do recieve a hand-on experience with the game.

Every game gets beta tested in some form, well except awakening. The fact that sc2's was sent out to 20k registered bnet accounts was pretty much exclusively because the life of sc2 was dependent on being well balanced.

True, but this doesn't deny the players who did the beta test to formulate opinions.

[Narrsan]

What is GaGa's new song called? saw it on youtube yesterday but now I can't remember D:

[Yrkoon]

Darji wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

How about we all just relax, wait for the game to actually be released and actually play it properly beginning to end, then form an opinion.

Yeah lets all pay 50 Euros or 60$ just to see if we are wrong or not.

I have news for you. This years is packed with great gaming titles Titles from which i Know they will offer a great experience. Like Skyrim for example (not because of the game but because of the community)  Also I am very hyped about Deus Ex after the last previews and the promise that you dont need to killy anyone in this game to finish it is  a great thing for me.

Wait.... let me see if I get what you're saying here.


We shouldn't gamble our $50 bucks on DA2 because we don't yet know exactly what we're gonna get....  But on the other hand, we should gamble our 50 bucks on Skyrim because  we do know what we're gonna get  because of the community?

Say what?

[The Spamming Troll]

i see it this way.....

i got ME1 from a friend and played it and loved it and played it literally 50 times. i preordered ME2 because of the boners ME1 gave me and the only reason i enjoy it is because it somewhat follows ME1. i certainly didnt expect ME2 to turn out the way it did and because of the game that it is, ill simply rent ME3 on some random weekend. its a shame.

havent tried DA2 but i can only assume whats changed.

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

Merced652 wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Darji wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

r2dr wrote...

thesilverlinedviking wrote...

I remember BioWare saying that Dragon Age Origins was supposed to play like the old-school RPGs. I don't remember them ever saying that Dragon Age II was supposed to play like them to.

If in making a sequel you're going to re-genre a game, change it's visual style, game play and setting, then you've got to think long and hard whether you should be calling this ship of theseus you're making a sequel, or whether perhaps starting a new franchise would be better.

It is still an RPG. and the setting is still in the world of DA. also the combat still has alot of familiar elements. So i dont think a change in visual style constitutes creating a new franchise

A Sequel should normall have more features and even more complexity and content instead of less.

they also need to refine and get rid of the unneccesary. and there was alot of unneccesary elements of origins.

Unneccesary to what? To the story? The whole combat thing is prohibitive to the story, it should be removed.

you know the story!!! yeah!!! tell me how the combat negatively affects the story!!! im all ears!!!

[dreamextractor]

so what do you guys think about Charlie Sheen?

[Darji]

Faust1979 wrote...

maybe the guy should just stick to Ultima games where he can enjoy endless mundane quests that are more of a chore than anything. I say Spoony's review of one of the games and holy crap all the things you have to go through for just one part of a quest that is insane. Heck I love RPGs but really some of the stuff they did in the past was just there to pad out the game to make it longer than it really is. I don't miss the days of wandering aimlessly just to figure out what I'm supposed to do next lost

Xou cant compare ultima games to aldurs Gate. Espeically not the ones he has reviewed so far. Just buy Baldurs Gate collection fro Gog for like 10$ and probably spend the best 300 hours you have ever spent in an RPG.

[GunClubGirl]

Riloux wrote...

It absolutely does not have the same feel as DA:O. It couldn't feel more different. The art style is different, the interactions are different, the combat is entirely uncharacteristic of a proper RPG.

There was nothing wrong with old school RPGs. Complexity is not something that should be seen as an impediment to fun. Unfortunately, complexity no longer has a place in our society where people have gnat-like attention spans. We're in the age of passive entertainment.

Agreed. I actually enjoy action RPGs but the problem is there are already a lot of those out there. Games like Origins are few and far between. That is the biggest reason people resist the changes. Origins was pretty unique, for a console game anyway, and because I especially enjoy that type of game, yeah, I admit, I don't want it to disappear. I love the Fallout games, Oblivion games, Mass Effect games - but there are a lot of games like that on the market. But what's left on consoles if we want an Origins-style gameplay? Nothing. And a lot of it is because ignorant media people assume that so-called "console gamers" hate anything that doesn't involve a lot of fast action and superhero special effects.

[Hellosanta]

It seems that I fail to grasp the idea of classic RPG stuff. What does naysayer talk about classic RPG actually sounds like D&D based TRPG. Also, does people realize that "classic" means "old" not "bible"? They are actually saying that they want RPGs that is like the ones from decades ago. How about saying "I don't like this stupid MS word on computer, I want classic typewriter back," sounds like?
So much hate for any changes. I don't get this.

Edit: I'm also wondering what is the "complexity" people are talking about to be in classic RPGs? I'm not being sarcastic here, it's sincere question.

Modifié par Hellosanta, 03 mars 2011 - 01:42 .

[Urazz]

Anathemic wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Half_Moon wrote...

Wait, these guys played the demo? That's the sum of their experience with the game? All the other major online reviewers had people spending 5 hours on the full game at Bioware headquarters.

Seriously, in the demo, we had our inventories locked. What kind of game website passes judgement on a game after reviewing the demo?

Buddy, y'know the purpose of a demo is to judge right? It's been done many times, demos are released to let the players judge on whether they want the game or not.

Judging whether or not you like certain mechanics in a game is different then writing an editorial stating/implying that Bioware sold out and DA2 is part of the downfall of RPGs for the old school.

Again that's the purpose of a demo, to let players generate an opinion by risking a hands-on experience with the game. Sure you can't judge story elements and whatnot, but you can judge basic gameplay system.

Ever wonder why Bethesda doesn't do demos?
Ever wonder why Blizzard does do demos?

It's a risk, on one hand you get reviews and critiques to generate a current of postitivity the other hand you have the chance to lose sales and whatnot.

Actually demos only give players a taste of part of the game.  Not the entire thing, alot of those giving negative reviews of the demo forget that and act like they are reviewing the entire game.

[Riloux]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Riloux wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

they also need to refine and get rid of the unneccesary. and there was alot of unneccesary elements of origins.

Such as? They've not refined anything so much as eliminated it entirely-- a prime example being the isometric camera. Unncessary element? I'm sure you think so.

if you think that they have destroyed features because they got rid of a camera view then that is quite sad.

Way to prove my point. 

[Elvoria]

Bring back Zork!!!!

you are standing in front of a cave what do you want to do?

>Enter the Cave

I do not understand

>enter cave

You enter cave it's dark.

[Cohesion]

And yet another topic pops out of the ether to trash a frigging demo of a game that's not even out yet. Never saw that coming.

[lx_theo]

Boo Hoo, the changes are no where near extreme enough to warrant the type of complaining I've seen out of some.

[Aesieru]

Hack and slash, is what he was getting at.

I don't see this mass-devolution that you're all ranting about.

And I don't buy games for their modding community, else I wouldn't spend money on the game but gain it another way, I play games and buy games because I want to play what was developed professionally, not by users... I would download the user-content or buy the content on my own terms for other reasons.

Essentially, Oblivion was bad, and Skyrim is going to be overhyped...

[October Sixth]

Narrsan wrote...

What is GaGa's new song called? saw it on youtube yesterday but now I can't remember D:

Born This Way

[Narrsan]

Elvoria wrote...

Bring back Zork!!!!

you are standing in front of a cave what do you want to do?

>Enter the Cave

I do not understand

>enter cave

You enter cave it's dark.

OHGOD THE NOSTALGIA

[Merced652]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Darji wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

r2dr wrote...

thesilverlinedviking wrote...

I remember BioWare saying that Dragon Age Origins was supposed to play like the old-school RPGs. I don't remember them ever saying that Dragon Age II was supposed to play like them to.

If in making a sequel you're going to re-genre a game, change it's visual style, game play and setting, then you've got to think long and hard whether you should be calling this ship of theseus you're making a sequel, or whether perhaps starting a new franchise would be better.

It is still an RPG. and the setting is still in the world of DA. also the combat still has alot of familiar elements. So i dont think a change in visual style constitutes creating a new franchise

A Sequel should normall have more features and even more complexity and content instead of less.

they also need to refine and get rid of the unneccesary. and there was alot of unneccesary elements of origins.

Unneccesary to what? To the story? The whole combat thing is prohibitive to the story, it should be removed.

you know the story!!! yeah!!! tell me how the combat negatively affects the story!!! im all ears!!!

Because its there at all? If if RPGs are only about the characters and the story then combat is just some tedium thrown in between plot points. I know because several pro-interactive buffs on this very forum have told me so.

[da0Xeffect]

I like games for incredible story telling and being able to face consequences of your decision. It bothers me when I see threads like this because it's like they're mocking those who will continue to play even if they are not cRPGs. I've always held Bioware as the ones that produce great story-telling games above all else and I'm fine with that.

[SnowHeart1]

Anathemic wrote...

SnowHeart1 wrote...

I was going to post something detailed on the article, but this has so rapidly devolved into a PC v console war with massive defensiveness of the part of the console fans and bitterness on the part of the PC fans it's pointless. Long story short: DA2 took a different direction in its design and mechanics in order to accommodate the 360 and PS3's controllers as compared the PC's mouse/keyboard. That's fact. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing for gaming is clearly not going to be resolved in this thread.

I am PC Gamer!

(Yes I realize I have both ME2 and DA:O registered as consoles, worst mistake in my gaming life)

Heh. 360 (ME) and PC (DA) here. It's why I find these arguments stupid. I don't like a lot of the design choices made for DA2, just as I didn't like a lot of the changes for ME2. But I still enjoyed ME2, and I'm sure I'll enjoy DA2. It doesn't mean the criticisms are invalid, but it also doesn't mean consoles are to be blamed for all that is wrong in the gaming world.

[Darji]

Yrkoon wrote...

Darji wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

How about we all just relax, wait for the game to actually be released and actually play it properly beginning to end, then form an opinion.

Yeah lets all pay 50 Euros or 60$ just to see if we are wrong or not.

I have news for you. This years is packed with great gaming titles Titles from which i Know they will offer a great experience. Like Skyrim for example (not because of the game but because of the community)  Also I am very hyped about Deus Ex after the last previews and the promise that you dont need to killy anyone in this game to finish it is  a great thing for me.

Wait.... let me see if I get what you're saying here.


We shouldn't gamble our $50 bucks on DA2 because we don't yet know exactly what we're gonna get....  But on the other hand, we should gamble our 50 bucks on Skyrim because  we do know what we're gonna get  because of the community?

Say what?

You dont gamble with Skyrim. The community fixes everything Bethesda makes wrong. and also not enough you can even choose how your game, how the mechanic, how all the systems in the game will work. You basicly can neglect everymechanics from bethesda itself. The elder scrolls series never had a great story the thing that this series has is the world itself. All the other stuff will be changed drastically. And you can decide how it will change.

[October Sixth]

dreamextractor wrote...

so what do you guys think about Charlie Sheen?

He's worth every penny

[Narrsan]

October Sixth wrote...

Narrsan wrote...

What is GaGa's new song called? saw it on youtube yesterday but now I can't remember D:

Born This Way

Ooh thanks. Not that I'm a fan... they are just really catchy :<