AustinKain wrote...
Obsidian Entertainment was brought into corp in 2003, Obisdian was a developer before that. Go read a gaming history book.
Darth Executor wrote...
Maria Caliban wrote...
You're not a player that abandoned Origins after an hour or two. You're a player who made it all the way through the game and as played through it multiple times. Even if you haven't finished all those playthroughs.
I haven't finished any of the playthroughs. Furthest I got was to deal with arl eamon's troubles, the circle's troubles and andraste's urn. Then I started on the deep roads and never finished (not counting minor quests here). I've played through a good chunk of the game but never actually got to the end.
Darth Executor wrote...
http://www.destructo...es-194234.phtmlWe saw a lot of people disengaging at hour one, hour two. Not pursuing it, right?" explains Laidlaw. The Dragon Age team might have chalked some of those lost players up to rentals, but the statistics didn't back it up: a significant number of people simply stopped playing Dragon Age: Origins after a few hours.
Sounds like a problem, right? After all when you put a lot of hard work into a product you want people to play it for a little more than an hour or two. Their solution:
AustinKain wrote...
I have not been humiliated once yet. I have just called a troll a troll. So if you wanna troll the do so you win, i wll just ignore your ignorant posts from now on.
Chadthesad wrote...
Darth Executor wrote...
No, I said I hate the fact that every enemy has a lot of life. Some abilities can 1 shot or nearly 1 shot one enemy, but that still leaves half a dozen to a dozen in the current encounter and the fact that I have to repeat the process over and over 20 times on every map screen.
Wow. . .so you want cardboard enemies? It seems like you want less mob numbers but tougher fights, yet you don't want mobs to have full health during the battles? Gotcha, I'll fire up my nonsensical radar device here.
Chadthesad wrote...
Darth Executor wrote...
No, I said I hate the fact that every enemy has a lot of life. Some abilities can 1 shot or nearly 1 shot one enemy, but that still leaves half a dozen to a dozen in the current encounter and the fact that I have to repeat the process over and over 20 times on every map screen.
Wow. . .so you want cardboard enemies? It seems like you want less mob numbers but tougher fights, yet you don't want mobs to have full health during the battles? Gotcha, I'll fire up my nonsensical radar device here.
Ethical wrote...
Well I don't know what to tell you, if your asking Bioware to tailor the game around your playing style, your sore out of luck.
Iberius wrote...
Darth Executor wrote...
Maria Caliban wrote...
You're not a player that abandoned Origins after an hour or two. You're a player who made it all the way through the game and as played through it multiple times. Even if you haven't finished all those playthroughs.
I haven't finished any of the playthroughs. Furthest I got was to deal with arl eamon's troubles, the circle's troubles and andraste's urn. Then I started on the deep roads and never finished (not counting minor quests here). I've played through a good chunk of the game but never actually got to the end.
I had this problem at first but then I replayed it and took the time to learn some more about it and then I got hooked on the story and now.......I've played it through 12-15 times. I understand it takes a while to get used to it, but it's well worth the effort to see it through.
Didn't you like the story???? That makes the game imo.
If the enemies take to long to kill put it on casual and you can play through DAO in 30 hours.
No, he wants more variety in the gameplay than spamming the 1-2 skills your character has at the early point in the game over and over and over.Chadthesad wrote...
Wow. . .so you want cardboard enemies? It seems like you want less mob numbers but tougher fights, yet you don't want mobs to have full health during the battles? Gotcha, I'll fire up my nonsensical radar device here.
andar91 wrote...
@Kileyan: It's definitely true that not all games are for all people, since people all have different tastes. But I don't think they're doing that with DA2 (not sure if that's what you're suggesting). I think the key is accessibility, where the complexity is still there, but it's on a curve and explained so it doesn't scare people away. There's a difference between someone who's just not into stats and someone who's intimidated by them; one of them can probably be taught. I think Bioware is trying to get those people in with better balanced difficulties that actually are what they say they are, instead of having non-boss encounters on Normal that can wipe your party easily.
Modifié par Kileyan, 03 mars 2011 - 03:43 .
tmp7704 wrote...
No, he wants more variety in the gameplay than spamming the 1-2 skills your character has at the early point in the game over and over and over.
There was thread few days earlier with videos from someone who made early playthroughs through DA2 demo. And there was multiple comments in it how it was utterly boring to watch Aveline or mage Hawke to stab-stab-stab or shoot-shoot-shoot the ogre for loooooong time until it finally fell over. Basically confirming his point. It is boring, maybe even more so in DA2 because the animations are faster so you see them many more times per each trivial fight.
tmp7704 wrote...
No, he wants more variety in the gameplay than spamming the 1-2 skills your character has at the early point in the game over and over and over.Chadthesad wrote...
Wow. . .so you want cardboard enemies? It seems like you want less mob numbers but tougher fights, yet you don't want mobs to have full health during the battles? Gotcha, I'll fire up my nonsensical radar device here.
There was thread few days earlier with videos from someone who made early playthroughs through DA2 demo. And there was multiple comments in it how it was utterly boring to watch Aveline or mage Hawke to stab-stab-stab or shoot-shoot-shoot the ogre for loooooong time until it finally fell over. Basically confirming his point. It is boring, maybe even more so in DA2 because the animations are faster so you see them many more times per each trivial fight.
Kileyan wrote...
andar91 wrote...
@Kileyan: It's definitely true that not all games are for all people, since people all have different tastes. But I don't think they're doing that with DA2 (not sure if that's what you're suggesting). I think the key is accessibility, where the complexity is still there, but it's on a curve and explained so it doesn't scare people away. There's a difference between someone who's just not into stats and someone who's intimidated by them; one of them can probably be taught. I think Bioware is trying to get those people in with better balanced difficulties that actually are what they say they are, instead of having non-boss encounters on Normal that can wipe your party easily.
Nah, I"m definately not one of those screaming Bioware sold out for the console Call of Duty fans. Aside from camera controls and a few other things related to it, this is pretty much DA to me, not some monster of a change:)
I was just saying that if someone is a "serious gamer", and within 10 minutes that can't be bothered or just don't enjoy spending stat points, what can you do to appeal to them? The example I quoted, was somone who saw the first level up screen and never played the game again. This game isn't all that complicated, it that case they'd have even quit Diablo II when presented with level up choices. You have to draw the line somewhere on attacting fans to a genre......I think?
No, I agree 100%. This reminds me of a story I heard on a podcast I love where one of the hosts was talking about showing a friend of his Heavy Rain. His friend was more used to games like Grand Theft Auto, and all he cared about was seeing how he could break the game. The host went on to talk about how, in that case, he was "playing the game wrong". I think this applies a bit here.Modifié par andar91, 03 mars 2011 - 03:46 .
dwarven_fighter wrote...
...what about the rest of us who bought and played previous Bioware games religiously. We have to adjust, we have to manage, we have to swallow it down. Let the shooter gamers play shooters, let RTS players play RTS, let us hardcore role-playing gamers play our RPGs.
Modifié par Maria Caliban, 03 mars 2011 - 03:52 .
I personally find this mind boggling. People praise clumsy resource systems on the basis of tradition.Maria Caliban wrote...
Those of us who don't like RPG conventions simply because they are the conventions of the genre.
I have impression you didn't read what i wrote. Early in the game the characters have 2-3 skills each tops, and some of these skills can be passives or mode toggles. This means early in the game you only do your fights spamming over and over the same 2-3 skills on every enemy group, and this repetitiveness quickly leads to fights feeling the same and tiresome.Chadthesad wrote...
Only reason the mobs in the demo are keeling over dead is because of the normal difficulty settings. I used the gib mod which is floating around, switch the difficulty to nightmare and everything he'll ever want is there.
This seems to be present in DA2, actually. At least in part. The junk item category even has trash bin as the icon. And you can throw any item you feel is crap there too, even when it's not initially marked as such.Maria Caliban wrote...
Here is an idea: Everything that the developer knows is crap? Label it 'crap.' Stick it in a special 'crap' section of the inventory that takes up 0 room. When I go to merchants, have a button that says [Sell all Crap]. When you hit the button, a pop up comes up tell you how much money you just got.
Whoa! We just saved the player time and now they can get back to the fun parts of playing a game. We must be dumbing down the RPG.
Let's not forget that there was a reason the system was implemented to begin with. It's kind of a question of whether that reason truly holds still, but if you put 6 people in a room and ask them, you can get 12 answers.Ziggeh wrote...
I personally find this mind boggling. People praise clumsy resource systems on the basis of tradition.Maria Caliban wrote...
Those of us who don't like RPG conventions simply because they are the conventions of the genre.
Modifié par Taleroth, 03 mars 2011 - 04:00 .
Chadthesad wrote...
tmp7704 wrote...
No, he wants more variety in the gameplay than spamming the 1-2 skills your character has at the early point in the game over and over and over.Chadthesad wrote...
Wow. . .so you want cardboard enemies? It seems like you want less mob numbers but tougher fights, yet you don't want mobs to have full health during the battles? Gotcha, I'll fire up my nonsensical radar device here.
There was thread few days earlier with videos from someone who made early playthroughs through DA2 demo. And there was multiple comments in it how it was utterly boring to watch Aveline or mage Hawke to stab-stab-stab or shoot-shoot-shoot the ogre for loooooong time until it finally fell over. Basically confirming his point. It is boring, maybe even more so in DA2 because the animations are faster so you see them many more times per each trivial fight.
Only reason the mobs in the demo are keeling over dead is because of the normal difficulty settings. I used the gib mod which is floating around, switch the difficulty to nightmare and everything he'll ever want is there. That is if those settings stay the same in the released product. You'll have trash mobs without inflated hp, yet they'll still pose a challenge. You wont find yourself auto attacking, only when skills are on cooldown. You'll just need to becareful of friendly fire through aoe's and arc attacks. The last fight in the demo was quite challenging, had to deal with reinforcement waves periodically, yet I didn't find myself overwhelmed.
andar91 wrote...
However, though I don't agree with the OP that the filler combat is boring, I can see where he is coming from. I think part of the problem (and this is really inherent in many rpg's) is that rpg's with leveling systems are almost always boring at the beginning because the enemies aren't very challenging and you don't have many abilities. The games always start to feel great when you hit level 6 or so (it varies with the game, I'm going by DA).
Maria Caliban wrote...
dwarven_fighter wrote...
...what about the rest of us who bought and played previous Bioware games religiously. We have to adjust, we have to manage, we have to swallow it down. Let the shooter gamers play shooters, let RTS players play RTS, let us hardcore role-playing gamers play our RPGs.
What about those of us who bought and played previous BioWare games religiously and like that BioWare continues to try to innovate instead of doing the same thing over and over?
What about we hardcore RPG fans who *don't* just play BioWare RPGs? Who play Oblivion, Dues Ex, World of Warcraft, the Witcher, Drankensang, Divinity II, Fallout: NV, and Dragon Age: Origins? Those of us who say, "Okay, Dragon Age: Origins was wonderful in some areas, but weaker than other RPGs I've played inother areas?"
What about we hardcore RPG fans who are *also* shooter, adventure, and RTS fans? Those of us who don't like RPG conventions simply because they are the conventions of the genre.
No other genre expects me to pick up 120 bits of crap, half of which is junk I'm supposed to sell while the other half are slight upgrades to the boots, armor, helmet, weapons, shield, rings, and amulet of my PC and the other 8 characters I'm controlling.
Here is an idea: Everything that the developer knows is crap? Label it 'crap.' Stick it in a special 'crap' section of the inventory that takes up 0 room. When I go to merchants, have a button that says [Sell all Crap]. When you hit the button, a pop up comes up tell you how much money you just got.
Whoa! We just saved the player time and now they can get back to the fun parts of playing a game. We must be dumbing down the RPG.
Modifié par dwarven_fighter, 03 mars 2011 - 04:16 .
Maria Caliban wrote...
dwarven_fighter wrote...
...what about the rest of us who bought and played previous Bioware games religiously. We have to adjust, we have to manage, we have to swallow it down. Let the shooter gamers play shooters, let RTS players play RTS, let us hardcore role-playing gamers play our RPGs.
What about those of us who bought and played previous BioWare games religiously and like that BioWare continues to try to innovate instead of doing the same thing over and over?
What about we hardcore RPG fans who *don't* just play BioWare RPGs? Who play Oblivion, Dues Ex, World of Warcraft, the Witcher, Drankensang, Divinity II, Fallout: NV, and Dragon Age: Origins? Those of us who say, "Okay, Dragon Age: Origins was wonderful in some areas, but weaker than other RPGs I've played inother areas?"
What about we hardcore RPG fans who are *also* shooter, adventure, and RTS fans? Those of us who don't like RPG conventions simply because they are the conventions of the genre.
No other genre expects me to pick up 120 bits of crap, half of which is junk I'm supposed to sell while the other half are slight upgrades to the boots, armor, helmet, weapons, shield, rings, and amulet of my PC and the other 8 characters I'm controlling.
Here is an idea: Everything that the developer knows is crap? Label it 'crap.' Stick it in a special 'crap' section of the inventory that takes up 0 room. When I go to merchants, have a button that says [Sell all Crap]. When you hit the button, a pop up comes up tell you how much money you just got.
Whoa! We just saved the player time and now they can get back to the fun parts of playing a game. We must be dumbing down the RPG.
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