81 réponses à ce sujet

[Raonar]

Nah, it wasn't directed at either of you really, it was directed at the general situation that I do not agree with (and it seems you find i do not have the right to that opinion).

And yes, I am AMAZED at how you KNOW EXACTLY what i was thinking/implying... because your assumption can't POSSIBLY be totally wrong. Do you really think i cared about that exchange so much (or that you or him are such relevant to my mood) that i would try to target you in my every post?

This is kind of sad really. I think I'll just not post anything else since it's so obviously pointless. You all can keep feeling attacked I guess.

[KnightofPhoenix]

In either case, the post has no relevance in this thread and is deliberately provocative (the countdown comment). So yes, it would be best if you refrain and take it elsewhere.

Anyways, I have wasted too much of my time on this already.

The most reprehensible character for me would be Cailan. Probably the worst king I've ever come across in fiction.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

If you want to talk about reprehensible individuals, Dragon Age is full of them, including ones that most people consider "good".

Cailan is a fine example. Beyond being an idiot king, it was his ego and pursuit of glory above common sense and realistic goals that cost the victory at Ostagar, moreso than Loghain's retreat. He had to have his glory, and he ended up taking his whole army down with him. Thousands of good men and women, soldiers who believed in their king, died because of Cailan's retarded, selfish goals. And of course, risking his life so foolishly, despite having no heir to replace him, was also short sighted and despicable, as it left the country ripe for instability.

That I find extremely reprehensible, when a leader's selfish, shallow ambitions end up causing alot of death and suffering to people, and chaos and instability in his land.

[Giggles_Manically]

-waves Bhelen fanatic flag-

Can I say most traditional Dwarves?
Gah just that entire system is disgusting.

[Glorfindel709]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

If you want to talk about reprehensible individuals, Dragon Age is full of them, including ones that most people consider "good".

Cailan is a fine example. Beyond being an idiot king, it was his ego and pursuit of glory above common sense and realistic goals that cost the victory at Ostagar, moreso than Loghain's retreat. He had to have his glory, and he ended up taking his whole army down with him. Thousands of good men and women, soldiers who believed in their king, died because of Cailan's retarded, selfish goals. And of course, risking his life so foolishly, despite having no heir to replace him, was also short sighted and despicable, as it left the country ripe for instability.

That I find extremely reprehensible, when a leader's selfish, shallow ambitions end up causing alot of death and suffering to people, and chaos and instability in his land.

This. I had an entire two paragraphs getting ready to write why I thought the Golden Ponce was the most rephrensible character in Dragon Age, and then you did it so eloquently I felt incapable of adding anything with my post.

[Wye]

Arl Howe takes the crown. The Human Noble story is basically a scenario in which Howe is a truely monumental antagonist. He kills your family, and takes the Cousland's for himself. Once the character and Arl Eamon come face-to-face with Loghain, Howe, and that other forgettable character (I can't remember her name), it's almost like getting a knife jabbed into your ribcage, and the knife is twisted around. You want to kill Howe especially for what he's done to your family's legacy, but you are not quite there yet..as the events unfold, you eventually meet Howe in the cellar, and take him down with his cronies.

[Amazon Queen]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

If you want to talk about reprehensible individuals, Dragon Age is full of them, including ones that most people consider "good".

Cailan is a fine example. Beyond being an idiot king, it was his ego and pursuit of glory above common sense and realistic goals that cost the victory at Ostagar, moreso than Loghain's retreat. He had to have his glory, and he ended up taking his whole army down with him. Thousands of good men and women, soldiers who believed in their king, died because of Cailan's retarded, selfish goals. And of course, risking his life so foolishly, despite having no heir to replace him, was also short sighted and despicable, as it left the country ripe for instability.

That I find extremely reprehensible, when a leader's selfish, shallow ambitions end up causing alot of death and suffering to people, and chaos and instability in his land.

This. I had an entire two paragraphs getting ready to write why I thought the Golden Ponce was the most rephrensible character in Dragon Age, and then you did it so eloquently I felt incapable of adding anything with my post.

Being a spoilt adolescent did a lot of damage but its hardly evil. Besides if his domineering wife and father-in-law hadn't kept him away from any real responsibility perhaps he'd have grown up a bit.

[HolyAvenger]

Cailan's a decent shout, but with him the problem is intent (or lack thereof)...Vaughan is a monster, very satisfying shoving a sword in his guts as a city elf female. Howe was probably the main antagonist for my HN Warden. Branka is just a psychopath. I find Bhelen quite reprehensible but I understand why others do not- I'm not much of a moral relatavist. Even Loghain has his moments (slaving comes to mind).

[sylvanaerie]

Howe, Branka, Isolde, Vaughan and Caladrius (In that order). I dislike Loghain too, but he isn't even in my top five of people I dislike in game.
I list all the 'villians' in the game in the category of "fun to hate".

[TJPags]

4 way tie, for me.

1.  Howe - Slaughtered an entire family, children included, and most of the residents of a castle, simply to futher his own ambition.  And this after being invited in and accepted as an honored guest.  I don't condone that.

2.  Bhelen - Killed one brother, pinned the crime on his other sibling, likely killed his father, lies, cheats and steals his way to an attempt on the throne - and starts a riot when he loses.

3.  Branka - casually using her own people, allowing them to be taken by DS and made into Broodmothers?  That's low.

4.  Loghain - for reasons I've stated before, which many of you here know, and which I don't wish to discuss again.  My feelings have not changed on this subject.
 
Zathrien just misses that list, btw.

[errant_knight]

Loghain's actions are the most reprehensible to me, but Howe is the most reprehensible person. That's not to say that Branka, Vaughn, Caladrius and Bhelen aren't right up there. As mentioned above, Zathrian comes close, but just misses the cut.

[Zjarcal]

I am not a Bhelen fan and even I am bothered by the stupidity that went on in the last page... 

Anyway, most reprehensible for me... either Howe or Vaughn or Marjolaine. A threeway tie I'd say.

Cailan also comes in close. 

[Avilia]

Vaughan - pretty well everyone else has a point of view or is simply delusional. He's just flat out evil.

[Avilia]

He's convinced himself he's in the right though, so he goes in the delusional group for me. Vaughan knows exactly what he's doing, hence the bribe offers. Ymmv of course.

[Jon Jern_]

What does reprehensible mean

[Joy Divison]

I think for Cailan, reprehensible is way too strong.  I'm big on intent and when I role-played an elf I was impressed by his willingness to admit humans were to blame (though disappointed he was too naive to know what was going on in the Alienage.)

As for reprehensible:
I agree Vaughn, Howe, and Caldrius are obviously good choices.

Three others that don;t get enough credit for being the reprehensible cretins they are:

1) Even my Dalish Elf Wardens kill Zathrian.
2) Lloyd (bartender at Redcliffe) gets fireballed during the zombie attack.
3) Wynne.  Just kidding .  But I do hate her so.  Jarvia is another that deserves a knife to the throat.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 04 mars 2011 - 04:35 .

[antigravitycat]

The game makes it easy to dislike Loghain and Howe. So yes, I can't say I like them. But since I started playing dwarf - second time now and 4th character - I don't care so much anymore about the human/outside word. Although my character is exiled and thrown out of Orzammar and lives on the surface, as a dwarf you remain tied to your homeland much more. As I played human or elf I cared more about what's going on in the main story of the game.

Joy Division, when you let Bella take over the bar and Lloyd survives the attack, you can see a bit of a change in his alignment, I got the impression. I agree on Zathrian, but never killed him, lifting the curse seems more benefitial for all.

[Emperor Iaius I]

Whoa whoa whoa, let's settle down now. Where did all this Caladrius hate come from? What did he do that puts him in the same league as the Arl of Amaranthine, the Teryn of Gwaren, Prince Bhelen, and the Grand Cleric? 

[Belrix]

To me, it would be first based on perspective.

Human Noble... Rendon Howe, killing your family, betraying his lord and betraying his friend. Logaine is a very close second for the betrayal of his king as well as betrayal of the second family of Ferelden (Couslands), since he knew of Howe's treachery since my Noble talked directly to him about it at Ostagar. Odd that neither of them recognized the human noble at Denerim before the Landsmeet or refused to recognize the surviving Couseland since they were familiar with them and met.

City Elf: Initially I'd say Vaghn, for obvious reasons, though Logaine did sell the CE's father into slavery.. This is alone an automatic death sentence at the Lands Meet.

Dalish... hard to say... I'd say Logaine after all is said and done.

Dwarf... Bahlen... killed your brother or was directly involved... and most likely involved. That is noble of course... I'm not familiar enough with commoner.

[Emperor Iaius I]

"Odd that neither of them recognized the human noble at Denerim before the Landsmeet or refused to recognize the surviving Couseland since they were familiar with them and met."

I take it you refer to their first confrontation, at Lord Redcliffe's estate? They'll recognize a Cousland Warden if she uses one of the specific lines for the Human Noble.

[Face of Evil]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Whoa whoa whoa, let's settle down now. Where did all this Caladrius hate come from? What did he do that puts him in the same league as the Arl of Amaranthine, the Teryn of Gwaren, Prince Bhelen, and the Grand Cleric? 

The enslavement of innocent elves isn't enough?

I choose to define "reprehensible" in this case as the villain who inspired the most hatred in me.

Vaughan tops the list, followed by Howe. The Desire Demon possessing Connor takes the bronze medal, and the Baroness from Awakening is nearly tied with Connor. Caladrius is fifth. Loghain and Branka at least have the right intentions, although they've crossed a line from which there is no coming back.

Flemeth is eighth on the list, but only because her ultimate goal is uncertain. She's followed closely by The Architect.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 04 mars 2011 - 05:35 .

[Emperor Iaius I]

What does their "innocence" have to do with anything? Do we call them innocent in order to elevate them unreasonably? They live in filth and squalor and do not contribute anything to society. It's doubtful that they could do so, given how their "free" brethren choose to live like savages.

Howe violated the laws of hospitality, murdered his superior in dignity and accomplishment--a teryn--and usurped his terynir.

Loghain was a deserter and regicide.

Bhelen was a regicide and fratricide: princes, no less.

As for your list: I'm not sure what this Vaughan actually did. I know he's the son of the former Arl of Denerim, so he probably caused the civil disorder in the Alienage, at least in part. Awful, but certainly not the same as the aforementioned.

I'm not sure why the Desire Demon is on this list at all. She merely wanted to be free, and what's the harm in that? You people are far too unkind to demons.

And I haven't played Awakening, so there we are.

[Face of Evil]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

What does their "innocence" have to do with anything? Do we call them innocent in order to elevate them unreasonably? They live in filth and squalor and do not contribute anything to society. It's doubtful that they could do so, given how their "free" brethren choose to live like savages.

I would atttempt to argue or reason with you, but you have shown yourself to be utterly ignorant and not worth my time. Do not respond to my post or speak to me again.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 04 mars 2011 - 05:51 .

[Belrix]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

"Odd that neither of them recognized the human noble at Denerim before the Landsmeet or refused to recognize the surviving Couseland since they were familiar with them and met."

I take it you refer to their first confrontation, at Lord Redcliffe's estate? They'll recognize a Cousland Warden if she uses one of the specific lines for the Human Noble.

No, I refer to when you first arrive at Denerim with the Arl of Redcliff, prior to the Landsmeet, and then met by Logaine, Howe and miss clueless loyalty.  They act as if they have never seen you...