325 réponses à ce sujet

[GreyWardenNathan]

I hate how i know half the possible conversations because people couldnt wait a week till release so just hacked the demo. And i didnt even read the main thread

[dirftglass]

Insom wrote...

The maker is real if the urn of sacred ashes is any indication.

Well, "something" is real, that's for sure - it's a world full of magical entities. Whether that makes "The Maker" real depends on how you define "The Maker".

If it's just a magical being that takes all the roles in the Chantry's stories - perhaps. If you define it as actually having created all of reality ... well, there's actually some logical contradictions in that idea.

Again, it depends on what criteria we are saying it has to meet to qualify as "The Maker".

[Russalka]

Selphie12 wrote...

My warden didn't, I don't see why my hawke should. Also if you think about Hawkes back story, particularly as a mage, I doubt she'd be a devoted servant to the maker when the chantry made it impossible for her father and sister to have normal lives.
That kind of annoyed me in DA:O. I could never say that my warden didn't believe in the maker without being called evil. I remember one of my Human nobles said it to the priestess in castle cousland, she got all snippy and basically told me to gtfo. I mean I understand that it's the medieval setting and people were a lot more religious then, but as we see with Morrigan, not everyone is a blind servant to the Chantry.
Makes me kind of happy to know that the chantry is falling apart in DA2

The Hawke family still seems to be rather religious though. They did allow Wesley to say that prayer and even Bethany talked about the Maker having a sense of humour.

I actually do not know whether my Hawke will be religious or not. The snippets show the Grand Cleric of Kirkwall to be a nice old heifer, it will be difficult to align against the Chantry. Or maybe it will just be the Templars. My Hawke will definitely be against them, but not religion, maybe not even the Chantry as a whole.

One does not have to be pro-Chantry to believe in the Maker though. I even thought that if not being religious is  actually uncommon, could it be rather Mary Sue of Hawke to be all modern atheist?

[Satyricon331]

My Wardens mostly thought that the Maker was Fen'Harel, the elven trickster god who imprisoned all the other elven gods (and another set of deities too my most recent Warden identifies as the Tevinter gods - something I read about on the forums here a long time ago but forgot about until recently). Actually, I suspect Gaider is going to go this way - there's likely some connection between the Tevinter gods and elven gods both disappearing,

I'd have my Hawke believe the same theory (if/when I get the game) but I can't see how he'd be sufficiently familiar with elven lore to have it occur to him. I'm not sure what I'd want as a replacement belief. He definitely won't be a Chantry follower though. Maybe he'll just think the Maker doesn't exist at all.

[Static Jak]

Since I'm an Atheist, it'd seem weird to have my Hawke to believe in the Maker. Plus I'm a Mage so...screw the Chantry.

[Grumpy young man]

Since in my head Hawke is already a potentional Thedas's Lenin I would say not.

[The Elder King]

If Hawke can believe in the Maker and side with the Mages, yes.

[Talvrae]

 Like my Warden my hawke will be very antagonist to the chantry and religion of the Maker

[dirftglass]

Russalka wrote...
The
Hawke family still seems to be rather religious though. They did allow
Wesley to say that prayer and even Bethany talked about the Maker having
a sense of humour.

While the Hawke family certainly COULD be, trust me, talking about "The Maker" is no indication of level of belief in it.

Einstein didn't believe in "a God", even calling the idea foolish and getting in trouble with some members of the Jewish community, but he certainly did talk about about physics using that kind of language. "God doesn't play dice with the universe".

It's a position typically called Pantheism.

Stephen Hawking has also thrown around the term "God" alot. "If the standard model is correct, we may know the mind of God." Likewise, he too doesn't actually believe in "A God" - in fact there's a whole section of a book
he wrote in which he argues that the idea of a human-like thinking-entity "God" is now "unnecessary".

In our world "God" is such a powerful word, that we all tend to use it regardless of our level of belief, because we like to kind of steal alot of the linguistic associations the word has. I certainly don't believe that all of existence was created by a very complex and specific entity resembling myself somehow "existing outside of existence" (no offense intended towards those who do), but watch me stub my toe hard enough, and then take a guess at the kind of language I'll use immediately afterward.

Modifié par dirftglass, 03 mars 2011 - 01:32 .

[Giant ambush beetle]

Will my Hawke be religious? No, definitely not
Will my Hawke believe in the Maker? No, not really
Will my Hawke deny the possibility that some sort of higher entity might exist? No.
May I present to you: Agnostic Hawke.

[Russalka]

There is a difference between liking the Chantry and believing the Maker though.

EDIT: It makes more sense in a world like this that people actually mean it when they invoke the Maker.

Modifié par Russalka, 03 mars 2011 - 01:33 .

[TokerMate]

My Hawke will not, I see the Chantry as some weird cult to be honest and don't believe in their beliefs. I like to think of my character as outside of that world where there are more important things to be done than worry about that silly stuff. But I will not be full out against the Chantry I will have a "Live and let Live" attitude towards them and any other religion or group of sorts unless they are blatantly evil. This will be for my first play through anyway.

[WrexKroganKing]

My Hawke has no need of fairy tales and metaphysical comfort blankets.

[dirftglass]

The Woldan wrote...


Will my Hawke be religious? No, definitely not
Will my Hawke believe in the Maker? No, not really
Will my Hawke deny the possibility that some sort of higher entity might exist? No.
May I present to you: Agnostic Hawke.

That might actually make the most sense as a playstyle.

We are the protagonist, and we are, from what I understand, suppose to be visiting other cultures as we play.

Having Hawke believe his culture's origin story was more valid than everyone else's without evidence (IE, without anything more than my culture > your culture) doesn't seem very ... "protagonstic" - although that's subjective, and I made up that last word.

[AkiKishi]

Hawke is religious at least in part. You can see that from the demo. There is no point saying "Yours" is not, because that will just be contradicted by game events.

Chantry and maker are not the same. Lot's of mages believe in the maker, while loathing the chantry.

[Insom]

TokerMate wrote...
I see the Chantry as some weird cult to be honest and don't believe in their beliefs.

Their beliefs are pretty much correct. They believe Andraste is a divine prophet, and she's been proven to be.

[Lirea Dragonage]

My Hawke will probably not care much about the Maker. Even if the Maker exists it's probably quite likely that the Chantry have twisted "his" writings to suit their own needs (eg. mages are evil) if he even spoke to Andraste at all ... In my opinion the Urn of Sacred Ashes is a pretty big indication that Andraste DID exist, but she may well have just been crazy or decided to stage a revolution using religion as a lever.
The whole "The Maker will forgive us and return if the chant is spread everywhere" is just another way of saying "it's not the Maker's fault it's because you're not praying hard enough!"
I hope the Chantry is less benign than they seemed to be in DA:O, I want to hate them! lol

[blothulfur]

Erm suprisingly yes, he'll also believe the maker talks to him and that he is his real father. Hawke should really stop nicking that tasty lyrium from the templars.

[Russalka]

Insom wrote...

Their beliefs are pretty much correct. They believe Andraste is a divine prophet, and she's been proven to be.

If you bring Oghren to the ashes, he says that there is a lot of lyrium around.

EDIT: Dirftglass, check my previous post as well.

Modifié par Russalka, 03 mars 2011 - 01:39 .

[dirftglass]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Hawke is religious at least in part. You can see that from the demo. There is no point saying "Yours" is not, because that will just be contradicted by game events.

Where in the demo does it confirm that at all?

Re: My earlier post about how we all invoke such entities liguistically, even those of us who do not believe in any such actual beings, such as myself and others who I specifically outline,

Modifié par dirftglass, 03 mars 2011 - 01:39 .

[dirftglass]

Insom wrote...
Their beliefs are pretty much correct. They believe Andraste is a divine prophet, and she's been proven to be.

How does this logic go?

"In this World with Magic Everywhere, the ashes we found are definitely magic. Therefore, most everything the Chantry has been saying is correct"?

Half the people in this game are magic.

Magic =/= Divine Prophet

Modifié par dirftglass, 03 mars 2011 - 01:42 .

[dirftglass]

WrexKroganKing wrote...

My Hawke has no need of fairy tales and metaphysical comfort blankets.

I like you :happy:

[Insom]

dirftglass wrote...

Insom wrote...
Their beliefs are pretty much correct. They believe Andraste is a divine prophet, and she's been proven to be.

How does this logic go?

"In this World with Magic Everywhere, the ashes we found are definitely magic. Therefore, most everything the Chantry has been saying is correct"?

Half the people in this game are magic.

Magic =/= Divine Prophet

They tried tons of regular magic on arl eamon and nothing. Why is it that only the ashes can cure someone from a coma?

[Neleothesze]

My first Miss Hawke will believe in the Maker but will think the Chantry is filled with a bunch of fanatics and/or power-hungry people bent on controlling the world through religion.
Miss Hawke, who will also be a mage, will believe that one can have faith in something without falling prey to any form of organised religion.
And if they try to force her hand, she'll use Blood Magic to shut them up. After all, if the Maker didn't want blood to be used in powering spells, he wouldn't have made it a possible catalyst.