135 réponses à ce sujet

[rob_k]

Thought I'd make a thread discussing positive things as it pertains to DA 2.

There was this quote from a destructoid article, titled 'The old school: Dragon Age 2 and its influences:

http://www.destructo...es-194234.phtml

destructoid wrote...

While dense, opaque games like Ultima steered BioWare toward gentler entry points, games like Planescape: Torment guided writer David Gaider as he started drawing out the story and characters of Dragon Age II. Unlike Origins, whose protagonist is malleable blank slate, DAII features
Hawke, the Champion of Kirkwall, complete with his own backstory and
character arc. (Hawke's appearance and gender are entirely
player-defined, though.)

And the reason this is interesting is because a poster referenced the
Swedish reviewer comparing the game's storytelling to Planescape.

http://social.biowar...index/6212985/1

Marionetten wrote...

As said, they didn't go too deep into
gameplay. They did however seem very pleased with the story telling.
Pleased enough to compare it to Planescape: Torment's. Most of their
issues lied with the plot itself. Apparently the game lacks a major
antagonist until the very end. They said that most of the game was spent
in Kirkwall running errands for the three factions. Qunari, Circle and
Chantry. Yes, apparently we can side with the Qunari.

Feel free to discuss it. I'm guessing the reason for the comparison comes from there being no big bad to defeat and an overall focus on the characters themselves (alongside the political elements).

I'm not saying the story or storytelling's going to be as good as Planescape by any means, but it's just that a story being compared to Planescape is about as nice a compliment as can be given. 

Modifié par rob_k, 03 mars 2011 - 04:13 .

[AkiKishi]

Planescape was a good story , but it was story written for a specific protagonist. That's much easier than writing an engaging story that has an "unknown" protagonist which is the case in most RPGs.

That's why you always seem to get a plot hook, like being a "something" it gives the writer known things to write the story around.

The thing you would really have to know is. Were they comparing to PST because of the single human protaganist, or because it really is a great story.

I have my doubts you can tell a great story in a 12-15 hour time frame.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 03 mars 2011 - 03:24 .

[Beerfish]

I agree with Bob Smith. A fixed main character allows writers to craft a better more detailed story. It's the never ending balancing act with games, giving the players freedom to customize and a much looser story vs less customization and a tighter story.

[Maelora]

They're pretty much polar opposites. Chris Avellone said of Planescape: Torment 'we wanted a powerful story, and we didn't want to be afraid of it being too deep for mass market'.

DA2 seems to have gone for anime action over story. Not one review so far has praised the ending.

By all means, BW can retcon their games for the button-masher/FPS crowd. That's their right. But please don't tell us it's as good as P:T.

[Herr Uhl]

simfamSP wrote...

Anything that can compared to Planescape must be good. I am just GLAD Bioware have gone for a different approach to their stories. I guess I am just fed up with the save the world plot.

And the galaxy, that is almost half of them.

[Teknor]

Maelora wrote...

By all means, BW can retcon their games for the button-masher/FPS crowd. That's their right. But please don't tell us it's as good as P:T.

Why not ? What made P:T great had nothing to do with combat or infinity engine. 

Modifié par Teknor, 03 mars 2011 - 03:35 .

[rob_k]

If I'm correct (and all I have to go on are the quotes provided), I'm guessing the comparisons were mainly made due to a focus on characters and the lack of a big bad.

[Nekator]

Maelora wrote...

They're pretty much polar opposites. Chris Avellone said of Planescape: Torment 'we wanted a powerful story, and we didn't want to be afraid of it being too deep for mass market'.

DA2 seems to have gone for anime action over story. Not one review so far has praised the ending.

By all means, BW can retcon their games for the button-masher/FPS crowd. That's their right. But please don't tell us it's as good as P:T.

so true...

[AkiKishi]

Teknor wrote...

Why not ? What made P:T great had nothing to do with combat or infinity engine. 

PST was great because you could FAIL and big time. You could even kill yourself (won't make any sense to anyone who knows nothing about PST). In many ways it was like the JRPG multi endings (yes they came before PST even if you were not aware of them). You had the "True" path, the "Good" end and then all sorts of other ways you could screw up.

It was a hugely refreshing game experience which has yet to be emulated for the reasons above.

[DarthCaine]

Comparing DA2 and PS:T is more of an insult to PS:T

Modifié par DarthCaine, 03 mars 2011 - 03:44 .

[Maelora]

Also, Planescape: Torment was a journey of self-discovery. It was intimate and deeply personal, a reflection of tabletop games like Vampire: Masquerade that were popular RPGs at the time P: T was made. 

Hawke's 'Rise to Power' doesn't seem like that at all. Hell, Hawke doesn't even seem that bothered by the sibling death!

I've nothing against DA2 but it's a very different game aimed at a very different market, and any comparison to a niche game like Planescape: Torment is just misleading.

Yes, P: T was VERY talky. It was aimed deliberately at the hardcore RPGers who loved dialogue and characterisation.  That's why it didn't sell very well, but it is highly regarded by the people who loved it.

DA2 is an action game with some RPG elements - a very different animal.

Modifié par Maelora, 03 mars 2011 - 03:48 .

[Soul Reaver]

Don't tarnish the good memory of PS:T by comparing it to crap

[Mantaal]

DarthCaine wrote...

Comparing DA2 and PS:T is more of an insult to PS:T

Thats like someone would say Diablo 2 is like Baldurs gate 2

[rob_k]

Look, the point of the thread wasn't to say the game's story will be as good as Planescape's by any means. I do even say I'm not saying the game's story is going to be as good as Planescape's in the original post.

But it was meant to say that we'll probably be getting at least a decent story. You know, give people something more to focus on other than 'unsatisfying ending' and 'other gameplay flaws/whines'?

Edit: And I wonder why I bother...

Modifié par rob_k, 03 mars 2011 - 03:48 .

[Cadaveth]

You don't have every bat in the cave if you think that there are similarities between a hack n' slash action RPG and dialogue heavy cRPG... It's just odd to say something like "this game doesn't have antagonist until the very end which reminds me of PS:T since no other game ever has had something like this! DERP". If he compared DA2 to Diablo or Alpha Protocol it would be fine imo.

E: Btw, I just reinstalled Icewind Dale 1 &2, BG 1 & 2 and P: ST... If I had to choose a game DA2 reminds me of, it would be Icewind Dale.

Modifié par Cadaveth, 03 mars 2011 - 03:49 .

[PhrosniteAgainROFL]

DarthCaine wrote...

Comparing DA2 and PS:T is more of an insult to PS:T

The 6 choices with 2 rows of dialog each is terrible game design...

[ColdbringeR]

DarthCaine wrote...

Comparing DA2 and PS:T is more of an insult to PS:T

Cracks me up every time.

[AkiKishi]

rob_k wrote...

Look, the point of the thread wasn't to say the game's story will be as good as Planescape's by any means. I do even say I'm not saying the game's story is going to be as good as Planescape's in the original post.

But it was meant to say that we'll probably be getting at least a decent story. You know, give people something more to focus on other than 'unsatisfying ending' and 'other gameplay flaws/whines'?

Edit: And I wonder why I bother...

That was always going to be a double edged sword.

[Maelora]

It has vague similiarities based on the fact that it isn't a save-the-world type game. Although in a way, it is... hence the 'framed narrative' and Cassandra begging Varric for Hawke's help.

But Hawke's 'Rise to Power' is not a journey of self-discovery. DA2 is not a dialogue-heavy RPG (heck, it has half the dialogue of DAO). So similarities end there.

[Cadaveth]

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...

The 6 choices with 2 rows of dialog each is terrible game design...

I think that having 3 options with 3-4 words in each is terrible game design... It's pretty easy to read long sentences and you know what your PC is saying in P: ST. If you have ADD.

[AkiKishi]

Is that screenshot doctored? I'm only asking because the one I saw had "Derp" as the middle option.

[PhrosniteAgainROFL]

Cadaveth wrote...

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...

The 6 choices with 2 rows of dialog each is terrible game design...

I think that having 3 options with 3-4 words in each is terrible game design... It's pretty easy to read long sentences and you know what your PC is saying in P: ST. If you have ADD.

Clearly you don't know anything about game design.

[Maelora]

DarthCaine wrote...
The 6 choices with 2 rows of dialog each is terrible game design...

No, it's not.  It was intentional.  As Chris Avellone said, Planescape: Torment was never intended to appeal to the casual crowd.  It was a game deliberately targeted at a certain audience.

DA2 is targeted at a very different audience - those who might have played DAO if it had less talking and more action. 

Modifié par Maelora, 03 mars 2011 - 03:54 .

[Cadaveth]

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...

Cadaveth wrote...

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...

The 6 choices with 2 rows of dialog each is terrible game design...

I think that having 3 options with 3-4 words in each is terrible game design... It's pretty easy to read long sentences and you know what your PC is saying in P: ST. If you have ADD.

Clearly you don't know anything about game design.

How come?