135 réponses à ce sujet

[Maelora]

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...
I'm all for deeper games but from what I've seen in the past week, this forum is full of whinners who bi*ch and moan about little, unimportant things.

A change in emphasis from a conversation-heavy RPG to an action game is a perfectly legitimate concern, for people who liked the original.

If they decided to change, say, CoD or Gears of War to a talky RPG or a platformer or a puzzle game, would you think the fans had a valid greivance?

[panamakira]

I find this comparison interesting though. Just like OP I didn't get a chance to finish PS:T, pity I know (I lost the CD when I moved so I have to buy a new copy or I'll never finish), but what I ultimately loved about that game was the story. DA:O I don't think had the best story but really good storytelling, and from what I've heard or seen of DA2 I expect something similar. A well told story with interesting characters. Maybe not as good a story as PS:T but good storytelling nonetheless.

I'm also a console user and I go back and forth between playing games on PC and Xbox. I personally don't see anything wrong with that and the fact that I can enjoy RPGs no matter what system I use to play with. For me the most important part of RPG is a good story or at least good storytelling with interesting characters. I'm not picky with game mechanics and DA:O suited me just fine as I'm sure DA2 will, but in the end we can't judge too much yet as I at least haven't played the game yet.

[Kloreep]

Maelora wrote...

The rather casual way they treated the sibling death suggests they're not going for deep immersion here.

A fair opinion. I read it somewhat differently, though. Hawke is very curt with everyone in the demo scenes, even with the top "olive branch" options. Hawke's reactions didn't strike me as casual, merely cold and practical in the face of constant Darkspawn threat. I think this is less a case of anti-immersion, and more an example of how Hawke is not really made to be entirely moldable; there's some pre-existing character there that we will not be allowed to change.

It may also be that they recognize they are unlikely to attract the player's sympathies with a death so early in; and, rather than try to play it for sympathy anyway, have Hawke react somewhat in line with the player on that. In general, I get the feeling I'm probably supposed to care about the sibling that lives, not the one that dies.

[Killyox the Defender]

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...

Maelora wrote...

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...
Because this is what jaded old-school gamers like to whine about. Those games are like the dinosaurs. DEAD!

Fine, fine, your side won. You can feel good about that.  The console model is the successful business model.

But do you have so little empathy for others that you don't see why other people might miss deeper games?

I'm all for deeper games but from what I've seen in the past week, this forum is full of whinners who bi*ch and moan about little, unimportant things.

Didn't ME, ME2 and DA:O have awesome characters and worlds to explore? But people don't see that. What they see is, "OH, THEY DUMBED IT DOWN FOR THE CONSOLES. WHERE'S IS MY INVENTORY? WHERE IS MY LOOT? I WANT TO PLAY DRESS UP WITH MY CHARACTERS!"

Truth be told i didnt like ME2 much.

As for DAO and DAA i think Oghren was actually very good [at least in Polish version his voice acting, just everything about himwas PEERRRFFEECT, gz to voice actors].

Alistair was OK, Morrigan was cool, Dog was awesome despite lack of alternatives, Sten was boring. Anders was very good, not oghren like but still :>

As for worlds to explore, the small worlds you get to see are nothing to old RPGs :>

[PhrosniteAgainROFL]

Maelora wrote...

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...
I'm all for deeper games but from what I've seen in the past week, this forum is full of whinners who bi*ch and moan about little, unimportant things.

A change in emphasis from a conversation-heavy RPG to an action game is a perfectly legitimate concern, for people who liked the original.

If they decided to change, say, CoD or Gears of War to a talky RPG or a platformer or a puzzle game, would you think the fans had a valid greivance?

Nice edit of my post there... Where did the stats go that said that in DA2 there is twice the amount of spoken dialog? The game is still dialog heavy, just like any other Bioware game!!!!

[Seb Hanlon]

This is a reminder to all involved that while everyone is entitled to their own strong opinions, especially around their favorite games, namecalling and being abusive toward other posters isn't allowed.

And for the record, I would play the hell out of a Gears of War retro platformer, Metal Slug style.

[Maelora]

I've really no interest in re-opening the old skool/konsole kids debate again. That argument is entrenched, and no side ever listens to the other.

That isn't what the topic starter asked anyway. 

And DA2 has half the diologue of Origins; fact.
 
If you cannot debate without name-calling, please go away.

Modifié par Maelora, 03 mars 2011 - 04:29 .

[rob_k]

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...

Where did the stats go that said that in DA2 there is twice the amount of spoken dialog? The game is still dialog heavy, just like any other Bioware game!!!!

I'm not one to post negatively about DA 2, but there's less in DA 2 actually than there was in the first game. (That is assuming you think it's a negative, because the lesser amount of dialog could just mean there's less exposition etc. There's the old saying that less is sometimes more. When it comes to books and stories anyway.)

Modifié par rob_k, 03 mars 2011 - 04:34 .

[Maelora]

Kloreep wrote...
more an example of how Hawke is not really made to be entirely moldable; there's some pre-existing character there that we will not be allowed to change.

I agree, but that's not a selling point for me.

As with Shepard, Hawke isn't our character, but a Bioware character we're borrowing for a while.

[Maelora]

Actually, Rob, if you wanted a comparison, I might suggest Fallout New Vegas? Not in the fact it's a sandbox, BW games don't do that, but that the emphasis is with the various factions rather than 'saving the world'.

In ME and DAO you were saving the world anyway. You could be an ass about it, or be nice, but you still ended up saving the world. I'm hoping DA2 actually allows for a broader choice of motivations.

Modifié par Maelora, 03 mars 2011 - 04:35 .

[Cadaveth]

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...

Maelora wrote...

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...
I'm all for deeper games but from what I've seen in the past week, this forum is full of whinners who bi*ch and moan about little, unimportant things.

A change in emphasis from a conversation-heavy RPG to an action game is a perfectly legitimate concern, for people who liked the original.

If they decided to change, say, CoD or Gears of War to a talky RPG or a platformer or a puzzle game, would you think the fans had a valid greivance?

Nice edit of my post there... Where did the stats go that said that in DA2 there is twice the amount of spoken dialog? The game is still dialog heavy, just like any other Bioware game!!!!

What? DA2 has nowhere near the amount of dialogue compared to DAO... DA2 has craploads of cutscenes though which isn't dialogue.

http://gamrfeed.vgch...more-cinematic/

[PhrosniteAgainROFL]

Killyox the Defender wrote...

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...

Maelora wrote...

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...
Because this is what jaded old-school gamers like to whine about. Those games are like the dinosaurs. DEAD!

Fine, fine, your side won. You can feel good about that.  The console model is the successful business model.

But do you have so little empathy for others that you don't see why other people might miss deeper games?

I'm all for deeper games but from what I've seen in the past week, this forum is full of whinners who bi*ch and moan about little, unimportant things.

Didn't ME, ME2 and DA:O have awesome characters and worlds to explore? But people don't see that. What they see is, "OH, THEY DUMBED IT DOWN FOR THE CONSOLES. WHERE'S IS MY INVENTORY? WHERE IS MY LOOT? I WANT TO PLAY DRESS UP WITH MY CHARACTERS!"

Truth be told i didnt like ME2 much.

As for DAO and DAA i think Oghren was actually very good [at least in Polish version his voice acting, just everything about himwas PEERRRFFEECT, gz to voice actors].

Alistair was OK, Morrigan was cool, Dog was awesome despite lack of alternatives, Sten was boring. Anders was very good, not oghren like but still :>

As for worlds to explore, the small worlds you get to see are nothing to old RPGs :>

What? Play the games in English!!! English is not my native language either.
Shale - awesome; Leliana - awesome; Morrigan - great; Alistair - great, Oghren - OK, great in DA:A.
Mass Effect 2  has the most, most memorable characters in any RPG in years.

You people are so weird. If it was up to me I would shut this forum down. I can't believe the things people are complaining about.

[Kloreep]

Maelora wrote...

Kloreep wrote...
more an example of how Hawke is not really made to be entirely moldable; there's some pre-existing character there that we will not be allowed to change.

I agree, but that's not a selling point for me.

As with Shepard, Hawke isn't our character, but a Bioware character we're borrowing for a while.

Fair enough. I'm one of those people who is typically happy to trade in some freedom for a tighter story, or for particular story elements like a family. I suppose that's why I end up liking Bioware's games so much. But I completely understand that that ceases to be acceptable as soon as you have to toss out the character you thought you were going to be able to role play.

[AkiKishi]

Maelora wrote...
I agree, but that's not a selling point for me.

As with Shepard, Hawke isn't our character, but a Bioware character we're borrowing for a while.

I'm glad someone else gets that.

[PhrosniteAgainROFL]

rob_k wrote...

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...

Where did the stats go that said that in DA2 there is twice the amount of spoken dialog? The game is still dialog heavy, just like any other Bioware game!!!!

I'm not one to post negatively about DA 2, but there's less in DA 2 actually than there was in the first game. (That is assuming you think it's a negative, because the lesser amount of dialog could just mean there's less exposition etc. There's the old saying that less is sometimes more. When it comes to books and stories anyway.)

Ok, fail on my part but DA2 has WAY more cinematics which is why reviewers has said that DA2's story telling was fantastic!

[Maelora]

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...
You people are so weird. If it was up to me I would shut this forum down. I can't believe the things people are complaining about.

So go and comment on another thread?  Rather than call people names on this one? You're not even debating the topic of 'personal story' vs 'saving the world'.

And you'd 'shut the forum down'? Really? That's kinda draconian.

Modifié par Maelora, 03 mars 2011 - 04:39 .

[Cadaveth]

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...

Shale - awesome; Leliana - awesome; Morrigan - great; Alistair - great, Oghren - OK, great in DA:A.
Mass Effect 2  has the most, most memorable characters in any RPG in years.

Agreed on Shale, Morrigan and Alistair (somewhat). ME2 has more memorable characters, they don't beat Minsc, Drizzt and others though.

E: Cinematics... I'd rather watch a movie if I wanted to see hours of cutscenes. (hello Metal Gear Solid)

Modifié par Cadaveth, 03 mars 2011 - 04:40 .

[Kaedrick]

Maybe we should just relax and wait for the game to come before arguing about aspects of the game that we aren't 100% sure.

As for the thing about losing a sibling and doing nothing mega-dramatic... I don't think that it would be appropriate with thousands of enemies surounding you.

Well that's my opinion.

[Maelora]

Kloreep wrote...
Fair enough. I'm one of those people who is typically happy to trade in some freedom for a tighter story, or for particular story elements like a family. I suppose that's why I end up liking Bioware's games so much. But I completely understand that that ceases to be acceptable as soon as you have to toss out the character you thought you were going to be able to role play.

For example... I wanted to play a 'protective older sister' archetype.  But now I can't, because the sibling survivor is taken from your party early on. 

There are a lot of games which offer 'tighter stories', notably Final Fantasy type games.  Personally I'd rather play my Warden(s) again.

[Killyox the Defender]

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...

Killyox the Defender wrote...

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...

Maelora wrote...

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...
Because this is what jaded old-school gamers like to whine about. Those games are like the dinosaurs. DEAD!

Fine, fine, your side won. You can feel good about that.  The console model is the successful business model.

But do you have so little empathy for others that you don't see why other people might miss deeper games?

I'm all for deeper games but from what I've seen in the past week, this forum is full of whinners who bi*ch and moan about little, unimportant things.

Didn't ME, ME2 and DA:O have awesome characters and worlds to explore? But people don't see that. What they see is, "OH, THEY DUMBED IT DOWN FOR THE CONSOLES. WHERE'S IS MY INVENTORY? WHERE IS MY LOOT? I WANT TO PLAY DRESS UP WITH MY CHARACTERS!"

Truth be told i didnt like ME2 much.

As for DAO and DAA i think Oghren was actually very good [at least in Polish version his voice acting, just everything about himwas PEERRRFFEECT, gz to voice actors].

Alistair was OK, Morrigan was cool, Dog was awesome despite lack of alternatives, Sten was boring. Anders was very good, not oghren like but still :>

As for worlds to explore, the small worlds you get to see are nothing to old RPGs :>

What? Play the games in English!!! English is not my native language either.
Shale - awesome; Leliana - awesome; Morrigan - great; Alistair - great, Oghren - OK, great in DA:A.
Mass Effect 2  has the most, most memorable characters in any RPG in years.

You people are so weird. If it was up to me I would shut this forum down. I can't believe the things people are complaining about.

Shale wasgood yeah

But i only play in english if 2 things happen or either 1) game is not in Polish 2) Polish voice acting is terrible.

In case of DAO polish voice acting was superb so i got no complaints. I like chars to be more complex. Leliana came along just due to her dream but shale came for deeper reason, to know the world to maybe get to know her past etc.



Now....play PST and check Morte - awesome, Ignus - awesome, Dakkon - awesome, Anna - very cool and so and so.
Basically each companion had his own very serious and very deep reasons to follow you they all had their own very developed background which simply doesnt happen in DAO

[rob_k]

Maelora wrote...

Actually, Rob, if you wanted a comparison, I might suggest Fallout New Vegas? Not in the fact it's a sandbox, BW games don't do that, but that the emphasis is with the various factions rather than 'saving the world'.

Might be ideal yeah, but I have no quotes to throw around in regard to New Vegas. Wanted to base it more on just 'I think the story will be good' or 'at least decent' mainly because I obviously haven't played the game. So, I can't judge that.

That's another game I didn't complete and it's not actually because I didn't enjoy it. I just had enough of the game's bugs, like companions going missing. I've heard they've fixed the problems though. I was at the point where you get to the strip and begin choosing sides. *shrugs*

The writing was again good though, as is to be expected of Obsidian.

Modifié par rob_k, 03 mars 2011 - 04:45 .

[Maelora]

Autolycus wrote...
Personally do not see any real comparisons, and I find actually having the gall to compare one of the greatest RPG's ever to DA2 is quite frankly laughable.

I don't think the topic starter was actually implying that.  It was a bad turn of phrase - I think he meant that the plots share the fact you are not 'saving the world'.

[PhrosniteAgainROFL]

Cadaveth wrote...

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...

Shale - awesome; Leliana - awesome; Morrigan - great; Alistair - great, Oghren - OK, great in DA:A.
Mass Effect 2  has the most, most memorable characters in any RPG in years.

Agreed on Shale, Morrigan and Alistair (somewhat). ME2 has more memorable characters, they don't beat Minsc, Drizzt and others though.

E: Cinematics... I'd rather watch a movie if I wanted to see hours of cutscenes. (hello Metal Gear Solid)

Wouldn't you rather go read a great book since most of you want so much dialog?

[Beerfish]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Button smashing has nothing at all to do with how good an rpg is becasue button smashing is a game mechanic.  PST has as many fetch quests and grinding combat as most other games out there, the spells were over the top but the lone character, excellent writing and storyline are what made it a great great game.  Combat mechanics did not make it a great game or rpg, just like button mashing won't make or break DA2 as an rpg, the storyline and chracter interaction will.

While that is true a game that tried to grab attention and be actiony to attract a certain crowd is very unlikely to be wordy for the same reason.

Wordy doesn't mean great rpg either.  I have no doubts that DA2 will not and cannot approach PST as a great rpg for a number of reasons but the fact that it centers on one defined character at least gives the writers a chacne to craft a story that is more focused.  If someone wants to take issue with the conversation mechanics and storytelling mechanics I have no problem with that.