142 réponses à ce sujet

[Aurgelmir]

Randomjob wrote...

I can totally understand the complaints from people who want the game to play like Baldur's Gate.  I can totally understand the complaints of people who want almost exactly the same thing as DA:O, just more of it.

But for me, it seems like all the things that they decided to change in DA2 directly addressed my problems with DA:O.  I hated the silent protagonist.  I hated the non-uniformity of my dialogue choices, and vastly prefer the wheel w/icon solution.  I hated the slow, shuffling combat with no ability to target and attack the nearest enemy (I love the "r" keybind in DA2!).  I never used the Top Down view as it made everything feel more "gamey" and less immersive.  I hated micomanaging other party members, and like that the "normal" difficulty is described as you focusing on making your protagonist the best it can be.

Really the only change I don't like is that you only can be Human.  I mean, this isn't really a big deal, but I feel like DA:O pulled off the immersion really well despite allowing 3 different races.  I was a Dalish elf, and they managed to never skip a beat in terms of addressing that, as it came into play with Velanna in DA:A, and also in the Witch Hunt expack as we went back to the original mirror from the Origin story.  If the trade-off is losing the voice over of the main character though, I would make that trade in a heartbeat.

Well, I'm happy for you. But in 10 years time you'll be playing a demo of Dragon Age 5 and complaining because all the things you liked about Dragon Age 2 have been watered down so much that its barely recognisable as, what you would define, an RPG. Then you'll REALLY get where us 'Purists' are coming from.

[sangy]

I think this thread will be much more interesting after release. I know a lot people have seen a good amount of content so far. From the demo I've only experienced action packed parts of the game. I wonder what the exploring will be like and other things like side quests.

[Rixxencaxx]

http://www.nydailyne...id_gaider_.html

DN: Do you worry about alienating the fans who made Bioware so successful, the people who have been following the company's work since the days when you were a PC RPG powerhouse?

Gaider: That's the challenge. Your average RPG fan, the person who is hardcore – and I can understand where they're coming from – you look at the games that are coming out and you have a fear. A lot of them are PC fans, and you see the thing you're interested in as a group. You feel like you're being marginalized.

They react to any perceived change as bad. Anything that potentially means that they're not being catered to specifically, they react badly at. The idea is to reassure them that maybe it's not as bad as they think. The idea is to make it accessible without losing what makes the RPG special.

You can't please everybody. You have to say this is what we're making. A lot of is at the end of the day, you have to think about who your market segment is. When we say we have to make an RPG accessible, we want to think about what sort of player experience do you want.


we aren't in their market segment anymore....will this bring them more or less sales?....who knows....

Modifié par Rixxencaxx, 03 mars 2011 - 07:29 .

[Azrailx]

TwistedComplex wrote...

Azrailx wrote...

if thats true op, i wish u were never born

and i doubt this game will earn many new fans, if u like rpgs u like them, if u dont u dont

[spam image removed]

funny pic but that not rly wut i said =(
following the ops thread title bioware made this game for him so if he doesnt exisit = diff game

also read my second post all u troll h8ers
oh and i think i will like this game quite a bit just a significant ammount less than the first

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 04 mars 2011 - 12:01 .

[suliabryon]

 I agree completely, OP!  I was really nervous when ME2 was coming out, but it ended up being such an improvement over ME that I've never suffered a moment's doubt about DA2.  Playing the demo just solidified my feelings.  I loved DA:O, but so far DA2 has upgraded the things I would have chosen to change: adding a voiced main character, the graphics, my rogue finally acts like a rogue in combat instead of a warrior, combat feels much smoother, the rivalry/friendship system sounds like an awesome fix for DA:O's necessity to keep everyone happy...I am SO excited for the full game.  

(As an aside, my husband is a big FPS fan, and he hates the CoD games.  He buys them only because most of the people he plays online with love them, and he has no choice if he wants to play multiplayer Xbox in the wake of a new CoD release.  The BF line of games, however, he considers the best FPS line out there. (Although I wonder how they compare to GoW for him, because he loves Gears, too.)  

So, not everyone in the universe loves CoD.  He actually feels they are all pretty much the same, suffer continually from the same problems, and nothing is being done to fix those problems in subsequent games, because why fix something when 7 billion people will be buying it anyway?)

But back on DA2, I have every faith in Bioware and the decisions they've made.  I haven't seen them all yet, but the demo has me very excited to see the rest.  And thank you for this thread!  So many threads leading up to release are negative, it's nice to see the positive voices speaking out.

[moilami]

sangy wrote...

I think this thread will be much more interesting after release. I know a lot people have seen a good amount of content so far. From the demo I've only experienced action packed parts of the game. I wonder what the exploring will be like and other things like side quests.

What exploration? Do you call Medal of Honour style tunnel running exploration? (Not saying Medal of Honour was a bad game. Just a little bit dumbed down).

I am curious to see how it is in DA2. From what I have seen it has been tunnel running and from what I have heard it has been reusage of dungeons. So I don't have high hopes. That said, I think it is still worth 30€ I spent.


Edit: Well, Izzy is worth every penny.

Modifié par moilami, 03 mars 2011 - 07:34 .

[Byth]

DA2 was announced before I played DA:O so I never had any opinion on the changes other than "ok, I guess that's cool" the demo won me over and changed them to "This game is perfect!" Yeah OP. I agree with you.

[Tietj]

I also agree 100% with the OP.

[Amioran]

moilami wrote...
Me? Well yeah, to experience the story I will have to suffer big time in DA2. Kung-fu badass combat is total immersion killer for me. That is not however a new experience. For the sake of story I have went through it even in some jrpgs. 

Just one question for you and those like you. Since you don't like the game at all (either if you had a real motive), it seems, why do you continue coming here? It's not that the game will change now, isn't it?

You seem to me like those that go to youtube videos they don't like just to post bad comments and generally be idiots. If you don't like a thing why do you even care? Have you a so high need of attention to have to go to places you clearly don't like just to tell others your disagreement for what they are doing as if anyone should care?

I don't get this waste of time. Aleister Crowley said: "if you try to kill time it will be easier that time will kill you". You should take his advice to hearth, since you never know if one day you will start to grow some ambition instead of just being happy about trolling around while the remaining parts of your brain melt with the rest. Better to save the most you can...

Modifié par Amioran, 03 mars 2011 - 07:47 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

I saw much similar debate between ME1 to ME2.

As an example one point of contention was Sheps weapons.

Camp 1: He's a trained Marine with the capable skills of becoming a SPECTRE, why cant he aim a gun

Camp 2: The leveling up mechanics of %aim, etc., are a key component unique to RPG experiences.

Although I prefer camp 1, neither arguement is wrong its simply a matter of taste.........I do not see shep being able to aim a gun at lvl 1 as watering down, similarly I wouldnt have minded too much if I had to lvl up the gun, but again prefer camp 1 hands down

Different strokes and all that.

[moilami]

Amioran wrote...

moilami wrote...
Me? Well yeah, to experience the story I will have to suffer big time in DA2. Kung-fu badass combat is total immersion killer for me. That is not however a new experience. For the sake of story I have went through it even in some jrpgs. 

Just one question for you and those like you. Since you don't like the game at all, it seems, why do you continue coming here? It's not that the game will change now, isn't it?

You seem to me like those that go to youtube videos they don't like just to post bad comments and generally be idiots. If you don't like a thing why do you even care? Have you a so high need of attention to have to go to places you clearly don't like just to tell others your disagreement for what they are doing as if anyone should care?

I don't get this waste of time. Aleister Crowley said: "if you try to kill time it will be easier that time will kill you". You should take his advice to hearth, since you never if one day you will start to grow some ambition instead of just being happy about trolling around.

I preordered sig edition of DA2 made for "loyal fans". When I did that I had no idea BW is going to make completely new game thinking about what is the "market segment" instead of making a new story and perfected the mechanics in DA.

And since I don't want to call the merchant and say "soz, I break the deal" I have to buy the game.

However, I can sell my Sig Edition to you. 50€ and we call it a deal and I will be *poof, gone*

[Amioran]

moilami wrote...

I preordered sig edition of DA2 made for "loyal fans". When I did that I had no idea BW is going to make completely new game thinking about what is the "market segment" instead of making a new story and perfected the mechanics in DA.

And since I don't want to call the merchant and say "soz, I break the deal" I have to buy the game.

However, I can sell my Sig Edition to you. 50€ and we call it a deal and I will be *poof, gone*

The fact that you did buy the game doesn't change minimally what I said. Apart that I'm sure that you will surely find someone that will buy that from you (I already did, or I will have done, in fact, many are looking for the SE here), it is not that if you come here complaining the game you ordered will change magically in the mail just because you post your disagreement in a forum.

Instead of wasting time resell the game and be done with it.

Modifié par Amioran, 03 mars 2011 - 07:54 .

[Rasputin]

Azrailx wrote...

if thats true op, i wish u were never born

and i doubt this game will earn many new fans, if u like rpgs u like them, if u dont u dont

If I was Zeus I would so ban-hammer you right about now.  What happened to human decency and respect for your fellow man?

[moilami]

Amioran wrote...

moilami wrote...

I preordered sig edition of DA2 made for "loyal fans". When I did that I had no idea BW is going to make completely new game thinking about what is the "market segment" instead of making a new story and perfected the mechanics in DA.

And since I don't want to call the merchant and say "soz, I break the deal" I have to buy the game.

However, I can sell my Sig Edition to you. 50€ and we call it a deal and I will be *poof, gone*

The fact that you did buy the game doesn't change minimally what I said. Apart that I'm sure that you will surely find someone that will buy that from you (I already did, or I will have done, in fact, many are looking for the SE here), it is not that if you come here complaining the game you ordered will not change magically in the mail just because you post your disagreement in a forum.

Instead of wasting time resell the game and be done with it.

Where are those who are looking for SE here? Links pls or they aren't here.


Edit: HAHAHAHA, after all, I have to agree BW put it perfectly right when they said Sig Edition is made for "loyal fans". I don't feel scammed anymore lol. I am just not a loyal fan. Far from it!

Modifié par moilami, 03 mars 2011 - 08:00 .

[Amioran]

moilami wrote...
Where are those who are looking for SE here? Links pls or they aren't here.

Didn't you pherhaps notice all the posts about SE being cancelled by their resellers? There are a lot in fact. If you put all the time you put here complaining I'm sure you will find someone soon enough to sell it.

Modifié par Amioran, 03 mars 2011 - 07:58 .

[moilami]

Amioran wrote...

moilami wrote...
Where are those who are looking for SE here? Links pls or they aren't here.

Didn't you pherhaps notice all the posts about SE being cancelled by their resellers? There are a lot in fact. If you put all the time you put here complaining I'm sure you will find someone soon enough to sell it.

Fine. Better get things done and move on.

[Aurgelmir]

Amioran wrote...

moilami wrote...
Me? Well yeah, to experience the story I will have to suffer big time in DA2. Kung-fu badass combat is total immersion killer for me. That is not however a new experience. For the sake of story I have went through it even in some jrpgs. 

Just one question for you and those like you. Since you don't like the game at all (either if you had a real motive), it seems, why do you continue coming here? It's not that the game will change now, isn't it?

I can tell from the demo and everything else that I'm not going to enjoy it as much as DA:O. But because I've been playing Bioware games for years, they've earned my loyalty. Loyalty to the point where I would buy a game that I wouldn't buy had it been made by some unknown studio. Does that mean I should just sit on the sidelines, accept that I've been marginalised and hold my tongue? No.

Its cathartic to get it off my chest just how marginalised I feel, how frustrating it is that RPG traditions are cast aside to make room for the Xbox generation. The teens ask for gore and boobs, the females want an all gay cast, more accessible, less depth. The market is against me, its opened up to whole new audience and now the arguments that used to exist about whether or not KOTOR was too watered down, RPG wise, now seem irrelevant as the genre becomes something completely different to what it was, to what I remember it being. So I make the occasional remark in anger, I complain and snipe from the sidelines, hopefully it will change something, probably not though. I do this not because I don't understand why its happening, Bioware is a Business and they need to cater to the market, I do this because I just feel the need to get it off my chest, If I don't I might just explode.

[Rasputin]

Rixxencaxx wrote...

http://www.nydailyne...id_gaider_.html

DN: Do you worry about alienating the fans who made Bioware so successful, the people who have been following the company's work since the days when you were a PC RPG powerhouse?

Gaider: That's the challenge. Your average RPG fan, the person who is hardcore – and I can understand where they're coming from – you look at the games that are coming out and you have a fear. A lot of them are PC fans, and you see the thing you're interested in as a group. You feel like you're being marginalized.

They react to any perceived change as bad. Anything that potentially means that they're not being catered to specifically, they react badly at. The idea is to reassure them that maybe it's not as bad as they think. The idea is to make it accessible without losing what makes the RPG special.

You can't please everybody. You have to say this is what we're making. A lot of is at the end of the day, you have to think about who your market segment is. When we say we have to make an RPG accessible, we want to think about what sort of player experience do you want.


we aren't in their market segment anymore....will this bring them more or less sales?....who knows....

Thank you for the cool link.

[JohnstonMR]

Volleyjeff wrote...

I would be curious to see the Demo feedback thread divided into a PC thread and a console thread. A month's salary says that the majority of people who love the demo and think DA2 is "made for them" are probably console gamers. Those of us who play PC are probably much more disappointed in the direction of the sequel.

Elitism is so unattractive.  This idea that PC players and Console players are fundamentally different is just stupid.  I'm both.  I have ZERO problems with DA2. 

[Silentmode]

I can relate to OP a bit. Basically every change they have made were areas I wanted to be changed from Origins and I'm about 96.5% sure at this point that its going to be one hell of a game. Except the new darkspawn design... I mean those are just bad.

[Merced652]

JohnstonMR wrote...

Volleyjeff wrote...

I would be curious to see the Demo feedback thread divided into a PC thread and a console thread. A month's salary says that the majority of people who love the demo and think DA2 is "made for them" are probably console gamers. Those of us who play PC are probably much more disappointed in the direction of the sequel.

Elitism is so unattractive.  This idea that PC players and Console players are fundamentally different is just stupid.  I'm both.  I have ZERO problems with DA2. 

I'm pretty sure there is a basis of fact that the two are fundamentally two seperate demographics. Does that mean they are mutually exclusive? Nope! But that doesn't mean they aren't different!

[JohnstonMR]

I just love the people who are concerned for not getting a stupid achievement/sticker. I play Xbox games all the time, and I regard the "achievements" as stupid at best. If you're playing a game so the machine can tell you you're good at it, what's the point?

[Bryy_Miller]

Azrailx wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

Azrailx wrote...

if thats true op, i wish u were never born

and i doubt this game will earn many new fans, if u like rpgs u like them, if u dont u dont

[spam image removed]

funny pic but that not rly wut i said =(

No, what you said was that you wished he was never born. For liking something you don't.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 04 mars 2011 - 12:03 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Azrailx wrote...

if thats true op, i wish u were never born

and i doubt this game will earn many new fans, if u like rpgs u like them, if u dont u dont

Way to be civil there - not. Wishing ill upon other human beings over a video game? That's kind of pathetic and sad.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 03 mars 2011 - 08:35 .