181 réponses à ce sujet

[Schwadragon]

Marionetten wrote...

Schwadragon wrote...

No. we have personality. I, for one, intend on being an aggressive but good character.

So, chaotic good?

Yeah, I know that BioWare doesn't want to call it alignment but I have a very difficult time perceiving it as anything else. The game tracks our behavior and based on that it pigeonholes us as one out of three caricatures. I don't like it one bit. Shocking, I know.

"Pigeonholes" in the sense that every now and then the game gives certain pieces of dialogue a certain tone. There's nothing to prevent you from switching between aggressive and diplomatic as much as you like.

[Maugrim]

PurebredCorn wrote...

I can't decide if this is a good thing or not. In the demo alone I found different responses were appropriate in different situations. For instance when Wesley pulls "the Order dictates" crap, I always choose the direct/aggressive response, but for the most part I choose more diplomatic responses with a sprinkling of humor. I hope this doesn't mean that I wont get to respond the way I know my character would to individual situations, I mean there are always certain things that some people just wont stand for and I hope my choices in conversations aren't limited because of a tally somewhere.

I need to play the game fully to see how it all pans out, so I will have to wait and see.

Your dominant personality will only default for lines where you wouldn't have been given the choice to select what to say anyways and possibly give you an extra special choices in certain limited situations. Say just because you've picked diplomatic every time doesn't mean you can suddenly select the aggresive choice.

[Melness]

Marionetten wrote...

Melness wrote...

You don't like it for what it is, a personality simulator, and not for what it isn't, an alignment simulator.

You truly don't perceive the correlation between alignment and personality?

A character who is of Lawful Evil alignment can have many different personalities.

A character who is, say, agressive may be of a number of alignments.

One may stereotipically imply the other in a few cases, but certainly not necessarily.

And that is not counting when people's personality isn't easily summarised in a single word. Which is, well, always.

Modifié par Melness, 03 mars 2011 - 07:40 .

[Purgatious]

Marionetten wrote...

Melness wrote...

You don't like it for what it is, a personality simulator, and not for what it isn't, an alignment simulator.

You truly don't perceive the correlation between alignment and personality?

There isn't one. Thats what you don't perceive.

An alignment is a status given to a person thats sums up the general perception of the sum of his actions.

An aggressive personaility isn't evil. It can be, or it can be good. Thats how it works in DA2.

Modifié par Purgatious, 03 mars 2011 - 07:40 .

[Marionetten]

Schwadragon wrote...

"Pigeonholes" in the sense that every now and then the game gives certain pieces of dialogue a certain tone. There's nothing to prevent you from switching between aggressive and diplomatic as much as you like.

This would be true if not for the special choices. You also have no control over the filler chatter. This is what I take issue with above all else. I don't mind the system as much as the repercussions of it.

Purgatious wrote...

An alignment is a status given to a person thats sums up the general perception of the sum of his actions.

This is exactly how it works in Dragon Age II, no? You're given a status based on your actions. This status in turn unlocks special dialogue options in addition to dictating your filler chatter.

Melness wrote...

A character who is of Lawful Evil alignment can have many different personalities.

A character who is, say, agressive may be of a number of alignments.

One may stereotipically imply the other in a few cases, but certainly not necessarily.

And that is not counting when people's personality isn't easily summarised in a single word. Which is, well, always.

You seem to be arguing the notion from a real life perspective. I'm not. I view them as equally bad gameplay mechanics.

Modifié par Marionetten, 03 mars 2011 - 07:47 .

[Ragadurn]

PurebredCorn wrote...

I can't decide if this is a good thing or not. In the demo alone I found different responses were appropriate in different situations. For instance when Wesley pulls "the Order dictates" crap, I always choose the direct/aggressive response, but for the most part I choose more diplomatic responses with a sprinkling of humor. I hope this doesn't mean that I wont get to respond the way I know my character would to individual situations, I mean there are always certain things that some people just wont stand for and I hope my choices in conversations aren't limited because of a tally somewhere.

I need to play the game fully to see how it all pans out, so I will have to wait and see.

Thanks for summing my feelings up. I'm in the same boat.

Although I understand that you will still have the same choices, just the tone will differ apparently. However, I'm still wondering whether it will just be the tone of the voiceover or the exact wording, as well.

Modifié par Ragadurn, 03 mars 2011 - 07:46 .

[falconlord5]

Marionetten wrote...

Melness wrote...

You don't like it for what it is, a personality simulator, and not for what it isn't, an alignment simulator.

You truly don't perceive the correlation between alignment and personality?

You can be a total ass and still be a good person.

[Koiruoho]

I can appreciate the comparison between alignment and this, but alignment usually restricted your gameplay in terms of classes, usable items and force powers in the case of KotOR. It went as far as to bar class advancement if your alignment shifted. This doesn't seem as bad.

I find it fairly interesting, myself. I think it's reasonable that your personality would show in how you express things. And certainly more reasonable than Shepard sounding absolutely bipolar sometimes.

[blothulfur]

I was really hoping for - haha hawke we have taken your sister and will tranquil her upon the dawn - yeah well knock yourself out oh while you're up fetch us a brew will you - well take the bloody cap off you berk - templars eh am I right fenris - your deal - oh yeah raise you ten bits.

Apathy shrugs for DA3.

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

Marionetten wrote...

Melness wrote...

You don't like it for what it is, a personality simulator, and not for what it isn't, an alignment simulator.

You truly don't perceive the correlation between alignment and personality?

there isnt one. a good or bad guy can be suave or abrasive.

[Melness]

blothulfur wrote...

I was really hoping for - haha hawke we have taken your sister and will tranquil her upon the dawn - yeah well knock yourself out oh while you're up fetch us a brew will you - well take the bloody cap off you berk - templars eh am I right fenris - your deal - oh yeah raise you ten bits.

Apathy shrugs for DA3.

What?

[Maderas_]

If the demo was any indication, it won't be possible to play an aggressive good guy or vice versa. The bottom-of-the-dialogue-wheel options mostly made Hawke act like a callous **** in exactly the same way as it did Shepard in Mass Effect.

Modifié par Maderas_, 03 mars 2011 - 07:47 .

[Purgatious]

.

This is exactly how it works in Dragon Age II, no? You're given a status based on your actions. This status in turn unlocks special dialogue options..

Thats how things work in the real world dude. Hitler was branded a monster and evil due to his actions, gandi was branded good due to this.

What do you want no one to react to your actions? Or do you want the ability to do what ever you want and switch from good to evil and expect to get anywhere?

You make zero sence.

[Melness]

Maderas_ wrote...

If the demo was any indication, it won't be possible to play an aggressive good guy or vice versa. The bottom-of-the-dialogue-wheel options mostly made Hawke act like a callous **** in exactly the same way as it did Shepard in Mass Effect.

Yeah, you can't be agressive and, at the same time, in a creepy kind heartened way. But you can have a dominant diplomatic/helpful personality while being agressive at times - such as when Wesley threatens your sister/you both.

Or, you can have a dominant agressive personality, but still be kind to, say, your mother when she loses a child, or Aveline, when she loses her husband.

Its all limited by your creativity.

[Koiruoho]

Maderas_ wrote...

If the demo was any indication, it won't be possible to play an aggressive good guy or vice versa. The bottom-of-the-dialogue-wheel options mostly made Hawke act like a callous **** in exactly the same way as it did Shepard in Mass Effect.

How so? I mean, let's take the part where Wesley is acting threatening towards Bethany and Hawke steps in. I didn't think that the aggressive option there was callous in any way. Quite the opposite, in fact, since you're aggressively defending your sibling rather than threatening Wesley out of malice.

[falconlord5]

Maderas_ wrote...

If the demo was any indication, it won't be possible to play an aggressive good guy or vice versa. The bottom-of-the-dialogue-wheel options mostly made Hawke act like a callous **** in exactly the same way as it did Shepard in Mass Effect.

'Cept, of course, that not all the bottom of the wheel choices have to do with personality.

Some of them, are about actions. And your actions do not influence your personality in game.

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

Maderas_ wrote...

If the demo was any indication, it won't be possible to play an aggressive good guy or vice versa. The bottom-of-the-dialogue-wheel options mostly made Hawke act like a callous **** in exactly the same way as it did Shepard in Mass Effect.

the fact that you can show ur protecting your sister like when Wesley spouts off the order dictates and you can tell him to stay the hell away from ur sister or when flemeth first appears and you tell her you wont let her harm your party shows that you can choose the bottom choices and still be a good guy.

[Marionetten]

Purgatious wrote...

Thats how things work in the real world dude. Hitler was branded a monster and evil due to his actions, gandi was branded good due to this.

What do you want no one to react to your actions? Or do you want the ability to do what ever you want and switch from good to evil and expect to get anywhere?

You make zero sence.

I didn't realize that Hitler unlocked special dialogue options based on his behavior. I also didn't realize that his filler chatter was dictated by it... or that he had filler chatter.

As said, I like the system itself well enough. I just don't like the repercussions of it.

Melness wrote...

Yeah, you can't be agressive and, at the same time, in a creepy kind heartened way. But you can have a dominant diplomatic/helpful personality while being agressive at times - such as when Wesley threatens your sister/you both.

Or, you can have a dominant agressive personality, but still be kind to, say, your mother when she loses a child, or Aveline, when she loses her husband.

Its all limited by your creativity.

The issue arrives when you try switching between stances. Hakwe comes across as being schizophrenic. From what I've seen I much prefer Alpha Protocol's way of doing it with the consequences being tied to individual actions instead of some overarching personality.

Modifié par Marionetten, 03 mars 2011 - 07:53 .

[Herr Uhl]

This seems to be like I expected, good. If you can sway the conversations by choosing the "right" options for each NPC I'm fine with the dominant personality bit.

[Koiruoho]

Didn't you know? Hitler had to grind up his aggression in WW1 so he could finally invade Poland.

[Morroian]

Marionetten wrote...

This is exactly how it works in Dragon Age II, no? You're given a status based on your actions. This status in turn unlocks special dialogue options in addition to dictating your filler chatter.

What special dialogue options? From what I understand we don't get bonuses like in ME, its just dictates how the filler dialogue is delivered.

Modifié par Morroian, 03 mars 2011 - 07:53 .

[Purgatious]

Marionetten wrote...

Purgatious wrote...

Thats how things work in the real world dude. Hitler was branded a monster and evil due to his actions, gandi was branded good due to this.

What do you want no one to react to your actions? Or do you want the ability to do what ever you want and switch from good to evil and expect to get anywhere?

You make zero sence.

I didn't realize that Hitler unlocked special dialogue options based on his behavior. I also didn't realize that his filler chatter was dictated by it... or that he had filler chatter.

As said, I like the system itself. I just don't like the repercussions of it.

So you're not really complaning about anything, just complaining

[ankuu]

I didn't notice the highlight. The highlight of the text i believe?

[Herr Uhl]

Morroian wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

This is exactly how it works in Dragon Age II, no? You're given a status based on your actions. This status in turn unlocks special dialogue options in addition to dictating your filler chatter.

What special dialogue options? From what I understand we don't get bonuses like in ME, its just dictates how the filler dialogue is delivered.

Look at the OP, second picture, the one with the star symbol.