181 réponses à ce sujet

[hekalite]

IRMcGhee wrote...

hekalite wrote...

I don't like the sound of this.  I don't think it's too unreasonable to be nice to some people, diplomatic with others and even aggressive to some.  Why should that make my Hawke act like a schizophrenic freak?  With only three basic personality choices and no opportunity for shades of gray, why not just pick one at the start of each chapter and let Hawke talk for you.  I know we can't have endless choices, but to me it just seems to remove the last remaining illusion of choice that you aren't just along for the ride.

How is it removing choice ? I don't really get what you mean by that. All it's really doing is making the dialogue outside of conversations consistent with how you've been playing your character. You're still free to pick any tone you like in conversation. Picking a couple of lines diametrically opposed in tone to what you've been generally picking, if you deem it appropriate, isn't suddenly going to make your character change it's dominant personality.

It's entirely possible I have misunderstoon completely what affect this has on gameplay.  But the way I read it, there are going to be unique dialog choices available at specific points in the story and my concern is that if you are not stacking these factors high enough (i.e. you don't answer more or less consistently) you won't get any of them.  I had a similar problem with ME because if you wanted the paragon or renegade bonuses, it really tended to skew your conversation options one side.  I will reserve judgement until I play, but it dosn't sound super cool to me.  Just my opinion.

[Ferretinabun]

hekalite wrote...

IRMcGhee wrote...

hekalite wrote...

I don't like the sound of this.  I don't think it's too unreasonable to be nice to some people, diplomatic with others and even aggressive to some.  Why should that make my Hawke act like a schizophrenic freak?  With only three basic personality choices and no opportunity for shades of gray, why not just pick one at the start of each chapter and let Hawke talk for you.  I know we can't have endless choices, but to me it just seems to remove the last remaining illusion of choice that you aren't just along for the ride.

How is it removing choice ? I don't really get what you mean by that. All it's really doing is making the dialogue outside of conversations consistent with how you've been playing your character. You're still free to pick any tone you like in conversation. Picking a couple of lines diametrically opposed in tone to what you've been generally picking, if you deem it appropriate, isn't suddenly going to make your character change it's dominant personality.

It's entirely possible I have misunderstoon completely what affect this has on gameplay.  But the way I read it, there are going to be unique dialog choices available at specific points in the story and my concern is that if you are not stacking these factors high enough (i.e. you don't answer more or less consistently) you won't get any of them.  I had a similar problem with ME because if you wanted the paragon or renegade bonuses, it really tended to skew your conversation options one side.  I will reserve judgement until I play, but it dosn't sound super cool to me.  Just my opinion.

I could be wrong, but I think you are mistaken. I don't think consistently playing a particular personality type will unlock special dialogue options, a la Mass Effect. The way I understand it, when your Hawke talks, you often get a choice of what to say. The choices are always open to everyone no matter what choices you have made previously. However, there are also 'filler lines' - lines your Hawke will say without you having selected them. THOSE ones will change depending on your choices. If you generally pick aggressive lines, the filler lines will be aggressive. If you generally pick diplomatic lines, your filler lines will be diplomatic. This is because the game considers you to have a 'dominant personality type' (aggressive, passive, humourous, etc.,). But you are given leeway to change this 'dominant personality' throughout the course of game. That's my understanding of it, anyway.

[Ragadurn]

You're wrong, in fact there is selectable special dialogue. Look at the original post. There even is an icon for special dialogue options that you get for having a certain personality, it's a star.

Modifié par Ragadurn, 04 mars 2011 - 04:24 .

[IRMcGhee]

[quote]Sylvius the Mad wrote...

[quote]IRMcGhee wrote...

How is it removing choice ? I don't really get what you mean by that. All it's really doing is making the dialogue outside of conversations consistent with how you've been playing your character.[/quote]
It's consistent with how I've been playing the character according to BioWare.  If I happen to disagree, I'm out of luck.

And the removal of choice is clear in how you just described it.  Yes, they're making an effort to keep dialogue that falls outside of conversations consistent with the options you've actually chosen, but the best way to ensure that would be not to have any dialogue fall outside conversations, and just give us control of all of it rather than having the game guess.
[quote]

It's just a feature of most Bioware games that you're going to have lots of scripted sequences outside of your control. They can't remove a choice you'd never have had in the first place, but at least this way there's far less chance that your PC will act out of character. Not perfect if you play the way you appear to, but better than their earlier system.

[IRMcGhee]

Ragadurn wrote...

You're wrong, in fact there is selectable special dialogue. Look at the original post. There even is an icon for special dialogue options that you get for having a certain personality, it's a star.

Yes, but it doesn't work like ME's Paragon/Renegade system. You don't have to spam one particular personality type, just pick it more often than the others, so it doesn't restrict your choices as much. No more "if I don't go full Paragon I'm screwed"

Modifié par IRMcGhee, 04 mars 2011 - 04:45 .

[Ragadurn]

Right, probably. However, I just wanted to point out that it's not restricted to automatic filler lines.

As one of the devs said, it's more kind of a little reward, an easteregg for people who stick to their favorite personality. Nothing game changing, just that someone who loves to go diplomatic get's a chance to sound extremely diplomatic from time to time etc.

[Rylor Tormtor]

IRMcGhee wrote...

Ragadurn wrote...

You're wrong, in fact there is selectable special dialogue. Look at the original post. There even is an icon for special dialogue options that you get for having a certain personality, it's a star.

Yes, but it doesn't work like ME's Paragon/Renegade system. You don't have to spam one particular personality type, just pick it more often than the others, so it doesn't restrict your choices as much. No more "if I don't go full Paragon I'm screwed"

I suppose, but you will not have dialogue options unless you have cultivated a certain personality, that is lets say there is a tense stand-off with a group of templars and my party, and the normal dialogue options are 1) Can't we all just get along (diplomatic) and 2) Time to die coppers! (aggressive), if you had a dominately humourous personality, you could have a third option 3) ... and the qunari said, "Rectum? I nearly killed him!" (humourous) which defuses the siutation with a joke. 

I can see why they did this on one level, enforcing a level consistency on the player, perhaps to avoid a meta-gaming sort of approach where sometimes we talking the way we know certain companions want us to to improve their attitude, and the rivalry system looks like a good step forward in this direction, but this implies that as players, we can't decide our own level of consistency. This all remains to be seen, however, and while I am generally opposed to restrictions, I will keep an open mind about this. 

[Ragadurn]

It's like this: You always get the three options in your case, just if you personality is registered as humorous, you'll get a fourth option (the star) which will be even funnier than the standard humorous option. That's how understood it to work. Also, that option would only pop up occasionally.

[Nadia]

I think I've never seen or played even a role-playing game that offers to have a personality, I'm pretty excited to see how it will work, from what I've seen in the demo it will be great and unique, and it adds so much to the replayability !

[Zalocx]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

IRMcGhee wrote...

Ragadurn wrote...

You're wrong, in fact there is selectable special dialogue. Look at the original post. There even is an icon for special dialogue options that you get for having a certain personality, it's a star.

Yes, but it doesn't work like ME's Paragon/Renegade system. You don't have to spam one particular personality type, just pick it more often than the others, so it doesn't restrict your choices as much. No more "if I don't go full Paragon I'm screwed"

I suppose, but you will not have dialogue options unless you have cultivated a certain personality, that is lets say there is a tense stand-off with a group of templars and my party, and the normal dialogue options are 1) Can't we all just get along (diplomatic) and 2) Time to die coppers! (aggressive), if you had a dominately humourous personality, you could have a third option 3) ... and the qunari said, "Rectum? I nearly killed him!" (humourous) which defuses the siutation with a joke. 

I can see why they did this on one level, enforcing a level consistency on the player, perhaps to avoid a meta-gaming sort of approach where sometimes we talking the way we know certain companions want us to to improve their attitude, and the rivalry system looks like a good step forward in this direction, but this implies that as players, we can't decide our own level of consistency. This all remains to be seen, however, and while I am generally opposed to restrictions, I will keep an open mind about this. 

Easter egg conversation options for being consistant are hardly "restrictions". As a tabletop player I know many DMs that actually refuse XP awards to characters that act sporadicaly with having "Scitzo" written on their character sheet in bold. That is a restriction, and one that I agree with. Randomly chnanging the entire tone and inflection of your character from conversation to conversation with little cause isn't so much freedom as "bad" roleplaying unless you can justify it to the DM.

Since CRPG's don't have a DM to sit there and rule on the situational factors of every line I am fine with this personality system. At least its a start toward the reduction of as you said, metagaming and pointless randomness

[thebigbenman]

i think the tone changing is a massive selling point. this sounds awesome, why wasn't it given more press?!

[Zombievarning]

Regarding some of the concerns in the thread, as far as I understand, the dominant personality only influences neutral lines, i.e. if you are diplomatic/humurous/aggressive and pick, say, an agressive line, that line will always be the same. A normally neutral filler line in conversation though, would be affected.

[hekalite]

Ragadurn wrote...

Right, probably. However, I just wanted to point out that it's not restricted to automatic filler lines.

As one of the devs said, it's more kind of a little reward, an easteregg for people who stick to their favorite personality. Nothing game changing, just that someone who loves to go diplomatic get's a chance to sound extremely diplomatic from time to time etc.

If it's just incidental stuff, then I'm ok with it.

Also, I don't really consider it a sign of schizophrenia to be aggressive with some people and diplomatic with others.

[Lugwy]

Interesting. I've been trying to decipher the symbols inside the "wheel" since demo (I only got as far as thinking the mask meant "snarky" and was even wrong on that, ha). The guide is a lot of help, thanks!

[Sarielle]

Hmm. I never buy these things but I'm actually tempted this time around. Thanks for posting, OP.

[Rylor Tormtor]

Zalocx wrote...

Rylor Tormtor wrote...


I suppose, but you will not have dialogue options unless you have cultivated a certain personality, that is lets say there is a tense stand-off with a group of templars and my party, and the normal dialogue options are 1) Can't we all just get along (diplomatic) and 2) Time to die coppers! (aggressive), if you had a dominately humourous personality, you could have a third option 3) ... and the qunari said, "Rectum? I nearly killed him!" (humourous) which defuses the siutation with a joke. 

I can see why they did this on one level, enforcing a level consistency on the player, perhaps to avoid a meta-gaming sort of approach where sometimes we talking the way we know certain companions want us to to improve their attitude, and the rivalry system looks like a good step forward in this direction, but this implies that as players, we can't decide our own level of consistency. This all remains to be seen, however, and while I am generally opposed to restrictions, I will keep an open mind about this. 

Easter egg conversation options for being consistant are hardly "restrictions". As a tabletop player I know many DMs that actually refuse XP awards to characters that act sporadicaly with having "Scitzo" written on their character sheet in bold. That is a restriction, and one that I agree with. Randomly chnanging the entire tone and inflection of your character from conversation to conversation with little cause isn't so much freedom as "bad" roleplaying unless you can justify it to the DM.

Since CRPG's don't have a DM to sit there and rule on the situational factors of every line I am fine with this personality system. At least its a start toward the reduction of as you said, metagaming and pointless randomness

I completely see what you are seeing, but we should always be careful about labeling anyone's roleplaying as bad (I say this having DM'd for terrible role-players). I am just shy about any sort of objective "metric" that determines personality. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

IRMcGhee wrote...

It's just a feature of most Bioware games that you're going to have lots of scripted sequences outside of your control.

It's a new feature, and one I think they should abandon.

They can't remove a choice you'd never have had in the first place, but at least this way there's far less chance that your PC will act out of character. Not perfect if you play the way you appear to, but better than their earlier system.

Their earlier system didn't have my character act without my input.  That was better.

[Waruko Shinobu]

Marionetten wrote...

The issue arrives when you try switching between stances. Hakwe comes across as being schizophrenic. From what I've seen I much prefer Alpha Protocol's way of doing it with the consequences being tied to individual actions instead of some overarching personality.

Incorrect, in Alpha Protocol there were instances where you needed a "overarching personality" to trigger certain events. Prime example: How to kill Conrad Marburg in Rome.

You needed the Suave perk by having "a majority of Suave responses in all of your dialogues in that playthrough when you reach the mid-fight dialogue with Conrad, else the perk wont trigger." (AP wiki) I myself saved a little before the mission where you can kill him and DID NOT use enough suave options to trigger the perk. I therefore went back, used cheat codes to change my dialogue totals to give suave the majority, triggered the perk, killed the bad guy after telling him what a loser he was.

Modifié par Waruko Shinobu, 04 mars 2011 - 06:54 .

[Arllekin]

wonderfull that helps a lot!

[Maria Caliban]

hekalite wrote...

It's entirely possible I have misunderstoon completely what affect this has on gameplay.  But the way I read it, there are going to be unique dialog choices available at specific points in the story and my concern is that if you are not stacking these factors high enough (i.e. you don't answer more or less consistently) you won't get any of them.  I had a similar problem with ME because if you wanted the paragon or renegade bonuses, it really tended to skew your conversation options one side.  I will reserve judgement until I play, but it dosn't sound super cool to me.  Just my opinion.

It's like the Mass Effect system in that you build up points for the dominant personality and that dominant personality will sometimes give you special lines.

It's unlike Mass Effect in two ways:
1) These extra lines aren't necessary. In ME 1, you can only use the special paragon or renegade options to convince Wrex to stay with you on Virmire. That won't be the case in DA II.

2. You don't need a special number of points. If you have humorous as a dominant personality, you'll have access to the extra joke/charming options. It's not that the game checks to see if you have 20 humorous points and if you only have 15, you can't get the line.

[Dangerfoot]

It sounds like this whole "tone shift" mechanic will actually make me feel like my characters are different people. I'm totally in favor.

[Dangerfoot]

Maria Caliban wrote...

It's like the Mass Effect system in that you build up points for the dominant personality and that dominant personality will sometimes give you special lines.

It's unlike Mass Effect in two ways:
1) These extra lines aren't necessary. In ME 1, you can only use the special paragon or renegade options to convince Wrex to stay with you on Virmire. That won't be the case in DA II.

2. You don't need a special number of points. If you have humorous as a dominant personality, you'll have access to the extra joke/charming options. It's not that the game checks to see if you have 20 humorous points and if you only have 15, you can't get the line.

I really hated that about Mass Effect. I did every single thing Paragon without ever reading the choices really because that's how it had to be, and I still had to choose between Jack and Miranda in their confrontation. Bad mechanic, this looks a lot more interesting.

[bunny-gypsy]

Thanks for this! =)

[havoc546]

Aesieru wrote...

Technically it's illegal to take pictures of things and show people them if you don't credit sources...

Wow dude your an idiot!

[TwistedComplex]

Marionetten wrote...

Schwadragon wrote...

No. we have personality. I, for one, intend on being an aggressive but good character.

So, chaotic good?

Yeah, I know that BioWare doesn't want to call it alignment but I have a very difficult time perceiving it as anything else. The game tracks our behavior and based on that it pigeonholes us as one out of three caricatures. I don't like it one bit. Shocking, I know.

Vicious wrote...

Alignment = Personality apparently

Well yes, that was the intent behind alignment.

This is amazing that you're complaining about this when everyone is complaining that Bioware is "moving away from it's roots", even though alignment WAS Biowares roots