264 réponses à ce sujet

[Eveangaline]

Technically, the dalish are 'ruled' by mages, and it doesn't cause them problems. Their main source of problems is humans being dicks to them.

[the_one_54321]

PsychoBlonde wrote...
...

You are insisting that there is no lack of equality between mages and "norms." Why? I have argued that cognizance does not create an equality as the mages actually have an ability to remove your cognizance against your will.

There are clear inequalities here.

[lx_theo]

They should be self-governed at the very least.

Chantry sees them as evil, and hinders any sort of progress they wish for. A government would abuse the mage's power. It just needs a strong counter threat to make sure they don't get any thoughts of taking everyone else out and taking power.

[SirRaphael]

lx_theo wrote...

They should be self-governed at the very least.

Chantry sees them as evil, and hinders any sort of progress they wish for. A government would abuse the mage's power. It just needs a strong counter threat to make sure they don't get any thoughts of taking everyone else out and taking power.

Read the rest of the thread. The problem of mages being taken over by demons, evil mages, and the general public's fear will prevent this. In general magic is just too dangerous for them to be unmonitored.

[Katana_Master]

Blarg, I leave the thread for an hour and suddenly I'm WAAAAY out of the picture.

And yes, PsychoBlonde, that's about it. I'm not saying that trying to talk is a bad idea, I just don't think it'll work.

DJ0000, you make a valid point, but I still hold that a mage, especially a Blood mage, holds too much power to be treated in the same manner as a normal person. Not saying that it's right or moral, but reality rarely is.

EDIT: Spacing

Modifié par Katana_Master, 03 mars 2011 - 11:11 .

[the_one_54321]

Katana_Master wrote...
I still hold that a mage, especially a Blood mage, holds too much power to be treated in the same manner as a normal person. Not saying that it's right or moral, but reality rarely is.

It's entirely ethical. People are restricted in their ability to do harm to others all the time everywhere. It's practically a universal understanding at this point.

[DJ0000]

Like many people have suggested, the best option is to keep the current system of taking them to the circle but not locking them away for their whole lives. It could become a school/university of sorts where they can learn but can still go home to their families and friends.

The mages don't necessarily want power they just want to have the freedom to choose their own life. Segregation never works it just causes a rift of fear and mistrust and will always eventually end in conflict.

[DJ0000]

Katana_Master wrote...
DJ0000, you make a valid point, but I still hold that a mage, especially a Blood mage, holds too much power to be treated in the same manner as a normal person. Not saying that it's right or moral, but reality rarely is.

Thank you.

The way I see it, if a blood mage is consorting with demons or using mind domination, fair enough take them down. In fact, if mages weren't held down by the chantry they could even help the Templars hunt maleficars.

Although, in my mind not all blood mages are necessarily evil.

Also, even if reality is rarely right or moral should people really just give up on trying to make it so. That is the kind of reasoning that would justify some mages consorting with demons to learn blood magic.

Giving up on morality is essentially saying that it is okay to commit any crime you want because 'that is just how it is'.

[Iberius]

DJ0000 wrote...

Katana_Master wrote...
DJ0000, you make a valid point, but I still hold that a mage, especially a Blood mage, holds too much power to be treated in the same manner as a normal person. Not saying that it's right or moral, but reality rarely is.

Thank you.

The way I see it, if a blood mage is consorting with demons or using mind domination, fair enough take them down. In fact, if mages weren't held down by the chantry they could even help the Templars hunt maleficars.

Although, in my mind not all blood mages are necessarily evil.

Also, even if reality is rarely right or moral should people really just give up on trying to make it so. That is the kind of reasoning that would justify some mages consorting with demons to learn blood magic.

Giving up on morality is essentially saying that it is okay to commit any crime you want because 'that is just how it is'.

Wow people are almost delving into Kant's theory of univeral laws and categorical/hypothetical imperatives........interesting.

 Blood mages may not be what one would consider an evil person, but the simple fact that they are delving into evil by using blood magic is the problem. Lol but being a "nice" person doesn't excuse the action.
 

Modifié par Iberius, 03 mars 2011 - 11:41 .

[DJ0000]

Iberius wrote...
 Blood mages may not be what one would consider an evil person, but the simple fact that they are delving into evil by using blood magic is the problem. Lol but being a "nice" person doesn't excuse the action.
 

I meant because people can learn blood magic from books rather than demons and they don't have to use it against anyone. Jowan didn't learn it from demons and the only time he used it was to defend himself. He never took anyones will or blood, unless you told him to kill Isolde.

In fact the 'evilest' think he did was poison Arl Eamonn, without magic. Although he was more stupid than actually evil.

It is very possible for someone to learn blood magic and not actually use it against anyone.

[FDrage]

Consider the Imperium, the magisters and why the Chantry came into being in the first place and you see what mages are capable off and what crimes mages committed. What about rights of those supressed by them or the rights of elves. Why is noone outraged I that ... I know because an "organized religion" is involved *shakes head* that's why people refused to see what mages did in in the imperial past and what mages are capable off. What about ordinary people who have no way of defending themselves at least templars can fight back. They just pay the price for their forbearer failings.

Modifié par FDrage, 04 mars 2011 - 12:00 .

[elfdwarf]

i don't want mage nether chantry rule, i want elve and dwarve even qunari rule.

[Curlain]

elfdwarf wrote...

i don't want mage nether chantry rule, i want elve and dwarve even qunari rule.

Agreed, humans clearly can't run things properly no matter who's in charge 

[AustinKain]

Well based on the fact that the Chantry started out as a cult following of a Andrastae I would sumise the Chantry is evil.
Therefore thier views on mages is evil, and needs to be wiped out.
Mages can govern themselves, and rule the world if need be.
Look at the Tevinter they did a good job until the Qunari showed up. Hence the Qunari are evil invaders from a distant place.

Mages are the XMEN of Thedas, they are the evolution of the human/elven races into something better.

[Dante Angelo]

AustinKain wrote...

Well based on the fact that the Chantry started out as a cult following of a Andrastae I would sumise the Chantry is evil.
Therefore thier views on mages is evil, and needs to be wiped out.
Mages can govern themselves, and rule the world if need be.
Look at the Tevinter they did a good job until the Qunari showed up. Hence the Qunari are evil invaders from a distant place.

Mages are the XMEN of Thedas, they are the evolution of the human/elven races into something better.

First enchanter Irving is professer Xavier with more hair

[Kurupt87]

The trouble with backing the mages is that it creates a ruling class that is born to rule; those that have the power of magic are born with it and are powerful through that. It's like if having royal blood actually meant something.

Like any ruling class, how they rule is dependent on their personalities; if they're nice they'll probably be good rulers, if nasty then probably not.

The way the game is set out to me is that there is no clear, or even semi clear, best choice; there are three somewhat even choices, each of which your own personality will shy away from or gravitate toward.

tl;dr There is no right or wrong choice.

[Faceman2006]

Too many bleeding heart liberal magic users in this thread if you ask me - death to all mages!

[Taleroth]

Faceman2006 wrote...

Too many bleeding heart liberal magic users in this thread if you ask me - death to all mages! Except Taleroth.

[Zkyire]

The only way the mages could ever be viably free, is if a group of mages took over the Templar's duties.

Still have the mages freed, but have a group in each nation, dedicated to hunting rogue mages (not any that doesn't submit to their will, just any that uses magic to harm/kill others). Without mercy. If they go easy on the rogue mages, people will begin to distrust them, and it's only a matter of time before open conflict once again.

(I tried to say rogue mages instead of apostates, 'cause of "apostate"s chantry connotation thing).

[DaggerFiend]

I actually think the current set up is fine. The only problem is that the Chantry is butt-hurt by Tevinter. Take the Chantry out of the equation (so it's just Templars and Mages), give the Mages some more liberties (e.g., able to leave the circle, tranquility as a last resort, apostates left alone until discovered to be dangerous), and let the Mages be presented as people instead of monsters and everything can go smoothely. Of course, no plan goes perfectly, but at least this way, Mages aren't just poor caged bastards that can blow you up.

[Melness]

Faceman2006 wrote...

Too many bleeding heart liberal magic users in this thread if you ask me - death to all mages!

But but.. if we rule we'll give you...

THE MAGI SWEEPER!

An enchanted broom that will sweep your home and castle, even after the fall of local civilization - keeping your future dungeons conviently tidy for would-be adventurers!

:wizard:Magishop:wizard:

[Faceman2006]

Melness wrote...

Faceman2006 wrote...

Too many bleeding heart liberal magic users in this thread if you ask me - death to all mages!

But but.. if we rule we'll give you...

THE MAGI SWEEPER!

An enchanted broom that will sweep your home and castle, even after the fall of local civilization - keeping your future dungeons conviently tidy for would-be adventurers!

:wizard:Magishop:wizard:

Death to the Chantry I say!

[TheCreeper]

Faceman2006 wrote...

Too many bleeding heart liberal magic users in this thread if you ask me - death to all mages!

Fenris, when did you get the internet?

[Emzamination]

Nothing but the Mage king

The chantry is corrupt but I'm 10x worse

The rise of the new Magister lord hawke begins march 8th! 

[Melness]

Faceman2006 wrote...

Melness wrote...

Faceman2006 wrote...

Too many bleeding heart liberal magic users in this thread if you ask me - death to all mages!

But but.. if we rule we'll give you...

THE MAGI SWEEPER!

An enchanted broom that will sweep your home and castle, even after the fall of local civilization - keeping your future dungeons conviently tidy for would-be adventurers!

:wizard:Magishop:wizard:

Death to the Chantry I say!

Did I mean that opposing the Chantry now gives you ANOTHER MAGI SWEEPER as our http://tvtropes.org/...antLies]LIMITED PROMOTION!?[/url]

:wizard:Magishop:wizard: