255 réponses à ce sujet

[geovas77]

Sign me up please I have beaten Origins/Awakenings on Nightmare so I was planning to start DA2 on Nightmare anyway, hopefully it will prove a good challenge, still waiting on my game.co.uk order to arrive hopefully on time for the European launch tomorrow

[Cynical_Wanderer]

omniscientdreams wrote...

...so am I the only one trying to do this without DLC items?

Anyways, I've come to this conclusion whilst playing Nightmare... the
game wasn't designed for it. It's like there was barely any playtesting
in this difficulty. I'm not saying it's impossible (I haven't come up against anything I couldn't beat yet), but most of the time I feel like I'm battling terrible game mechanics rather than a tactically difficult situation.

Also, "Nightmare" essentially describes how awful it is trying to place AoE spells/abilities in this game. Someone please explain to me why (a) we don't have a top-down view to aid in placing AoE or ( why we can't place AoE through enemies so that the game doesn't latch onto them with the mouse cursor.

I'm playing without any DLC for the moment (waiting for it to get fixed). And yes, I agree. It sure looks like Nightmare wasn't tested - at all. The camera is horrible - it nowhere near accommodates AoE targetting in the friendly fire setting, I literally have to go "pixel-hunting" to place the AoE marker between the enemies so that it doesn't all go to hell (warrior with Stonewall helps a lot, though. He tanks them, people just cast AoE on him while Stonewall is on. Force field also helps.

[Pandorra90]

Sign me up. Thats the way i allways start a game. My friends say i seem to enjoy getting frustrated.

[Zhel_Ryn]

@Cynical_Wanderer: Sitting at 51% Defense (31/11) currently, at level 11. This is without Defense gear/runes, plus another 15% if I take Battle Synergy. The lower Fortitude score (alleviated by Steady the Foot (+20)) has probably been the worst thing about the build. I, of course, don't know how a str/con tank would be faring, but I've had no difficulty standing toe to toe with anything but the oversized bosses. Seeing the numbers they do though, I'm not sure if str/con fares better either, Sabre's experience against the Mature Dragon were quite similar to what I saw if I stood there and took it.

@Naitaka: Noooo~....That said, AoE has been annoying to target. If only they'd let the cursor ignore enemies on a modifier key or something, it'd be so much less annoying fiddling with them. A mod for that and a Personal Annoyance Remover are on top of my wishlist.

Modifié par Zhel_Ryn, 10 mars 2011 - 12:01 .

[Cynical_Wanderer]

Zhel_Ryn wrote...

@Cynical_Wanderer: Sitting at 51% Defense (31/11) currently, at level 11. This is without Defense gear/runes, plus another 15% if I take Battle Synergy. The lower Fortitude score (alleviated by Steady the Foot (+20)) has probably been the worst thing about the build. I, of course, don't know how a str/con tank would be faring, but I've had no difficulty standing toe to toe with anything but the oversized bosses. Seeing the numbers they do though, I'm not sure if str/con fares better either, Sabre's experience against the Mature Dragon were quite similar to what I saw if I stood there and took it.

Hmm, viable, I guess - if you are really dedicated to stacking it. And with Defender talents that can make you immune to knockback (but not much else - I sure as hell envy Aveline's unique talent tree), stacking Strength (for Fortitude) isn't as crucial. Never explored this direction much. Might eventually try that on my second playthrough.

But then again, I'm running a tankless group. 2h warrior, ranged rogue, two mages. Everything gets gathered around the warrior, CCd and obliterated via tons of AoE while the warrior is turtling. Nasty stuff like Assassins gets stunlocked and brought down via class combos. Whatever can't be tanked or stunlocked gets kited.

Worked like a charm so far.

Modifié par Cynical_Wanderer, 10 mars 2011 - 12:14 .

[segatakai]

No FF on hard? Darnit. I guess I´ll try nightmare then.

[Zhel_Ryn]

@Cynical_Wanderer: I think it goes along the lines of efficient party build > individual character builds. ^.^ This is as a 2h warrior as well, and my talent setup is more hybrid than anything else (Reaver, GR'ed Mighty Blow, plus Taunt, Stonewall, etc.). Similar party setup as well (Varric, Anders, Bethany).

All of the companion unique trees are enviable lol. Aveline though, looks dang sexy for an offtank run with a rogue tank down the road. Fenris could be better too with that +20% defense/crit sustain he gets. >.>

Most important thing? I is having a blast! And we have notes to compare too. ^.^

[JensenBakura]

I don't understand why people whine about Friendly-Fire being necessary for realism but then complain that there is no tactical view...how is tactical view realistic? They're giving you a mage-perspective of how AOE would really work, just like having it burn friends as well as foes is also adding to immersion.

[jooter]

I'm glad I started this game on nightmare. This way I didn't get to go through the game all willy nilly and I'm now enjoying challenging combat with a sense of satisfaction when I get through the tougher areas

It also ups the average play time

I have rogue, varric, merrill, anders usually on normal encounters adding a tank on tough areas Fenris for those damned elemental enemies and Aveline for others

Just noticed the only party member I don't use is Isabela hmm just have to find a use for her.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I'm doing my first run on Nightmare, albeit with DLC items. Found it rather tough until I hit Level 5 and my 2-handed warrior got Scythe - the ability to turn enemies into a fine red mist makes things a bit easier :happy:.

[Riloux]

I've been playing on Nightmare so far. I hit a bit of a snag during the Barracks encounter (Someone convince me this isn't impossible) and had to lower the difficulty. Other than that, it's smooth sailing. The Qunari escort encounter took a little bit of time.

[jussyr]

I'm in. You think I'm better off mostly using Varric or Isabela if I'm a S/S warrior and taking Anders and Bethany? For that matter, do I even want to rely on my mages that much? From the demo, they weren't looking as crazy powerful as in DAO, and with the cooldowns on Anders' heals...

[Dynamomark]

JensenBakura wrote...

I don't understand why people whine about Friendly-Fire being necessary for realism but then complain that there is no tactical view...how is tactical view realistic? They're giving you a mage-perspective of how AOE would really work, just like having it burn friends as well as foes is also adding to immersion.

The difference is that the tactical view has to do with how the game is presented, friendly fire is more of a game mechanic.  These are apples and oranges.  In any event, Bioware has done away with tactical view not because it was unrealistic, but because trying to implement it would require too much work and money.

[jooter]

jussyr wrote...

I'm in. You think I'm better off mostly using Varric or Isabela if I'm a S/S warrior and taking Anders and Bethany? For that matter, do I even want to rely on my mages that much? From the demo, they weren't looking as crazy powerful as in DAO, and with the cooldowns on Anders' heals...

Maybe mages are not crazy powerful that they can clear a room of enemies in seconds but they are still very useful. Sometimes you might even need them for the stun because elites now drink potions. And I think it's unfair that they can drink that potion very fast considering the 1 min cooldown on our part.

Now I somewhat know how my enemies might feel like in DA:O when I was constantly drinking potions lol

[soteria]

JensenBakura wrote...

I don't understand why people whine about Friendly-Fire being necessary for realism but then complain that there is no tactical view...how is tactical view realistic? They're giving you a mage-perspective of how AOE would really work, just like having it burn friends as well as foes is also adding to immersion.

Um, no. The problem is that I can cast my fireball directly at an enemy or I can target it way behind them but I can't cast it where I want to, in between there. The character can see where I'm trying to cast, but the UI forces my cursor to "snap-to" the targets. Definitely not a realism issue; it's the interface.

[Cynical_Wanderer]

Zhel_Ryn wrote...

@Cynical_Wanderer: I think it goes along the lines of efficient party build > individual character builds. ^.^ This is as a 2h warrior as well, and my talent setup is more hybrid than anything else (Reaver, GR'ed Mighty Blow, plus Taunt, Stonewall, etc.). Similar party setup as well (Varric, Anders, Bethany).

All of the companion unique trees are enviable lol. Aveline though, looks dang sexy for an offtank run with a rogue tank down the road. Fenris could be better too with that +20% defense/crit sustain he gets. >.>

Most important thing? I is having a blast! And we have notes to compare too. ^.^

I'm also having a blast. Although it's sometimes frustrating to struggle with the camera, occasional crashes and anti-ergonomic mechanics.

I actually found the PC Spirit healer\\Force mage trees to be more attractive than, say, Ander's tree. Arguably Merril's tree (nature pun >.>), as well. Reaver\\Templar also look quite powerful (although I haven't tried them much - they're support trees, and I still need to tailor out a base build for the character). But Aveline definitely comes out on top. Ridiculously powerful tank talents.

JensenBakura wrote...

I don't understand why people whine
about Friendly-Fire being necessary for realism but then complain that
there is no tactical view...how is tactical view realistic? They're
giving you a mage-perspective of how AOE would really work, just like
having it burn friends as well as foes is also adding to
immersion.

It's not about realism. It's about challenge. No friendly fire=just spam AoE whenever and wherever you like. Applying AoE properly (including AoE CC) takes more effort.

[follis2]

I have started my playthrough. I am struggling with getting out of Lothering right now. Ogres seem tougher than in Origins...

[slipknotts]

any thoughts on this, anybody....

what's the deal with being staggered / stunned by ***EVERY*** attack??? each battle is a dance to NOT get hit AT ALL. Once I get hit, I'm basically dead, because I can't move quick enough before the next attack so I just stand there looking stupid until I bite dust!?!?!?!?!? WTF... that's not Nightmare Difficulty, that's just stupid and it makes a successful battle take forever which might not be so bad if was not such a tediously boring and frustrating activity.

---run around until I can have enough room to cast a spell with the mage and throw a grenade with my rogue who can then attack maybe twice while enemies are stunned for 4 sec....rinse and repeat--

there is absolutely NO FUN in it, I'd rather go read a book, clean my house, walk my dog, etc, etc

and tactics are **COMPLETELY BROKEN** for instance, my tank:
1) Enemy, any: activate shield defense;
2) Enemy, nearest: taunt
3) Self, surrounded by three or more enemies: activate some skill I can't remember the name of...

so, what does she do??? *NOTHING* she just stands there until an enemy attacks her and then she will maybe fight back. So I have to micro-manage my tank for every move. It just makes the whole "tactics" concept worthless

anybody have similar experiences or has my game gone freakozoid?

[slipknotts]

JensenBakura wrote...

I don't understand why people whine
about Friendly-Fire being necessary for realism but then complain that
there is no tactical view...how is tactical view realistic? They're
giving you a mage-perspective of how AOE would really work, just like
having it burn friends as well as foes is also adding to
immersion.

We are looking at a flat 2 dimensional surface (your TV or monitor) that is trying to represent a 3 dimensional world -- and most people have peripheral vision which can't really be factored in when looking at a monitor...

that's one reason why games have tactical views and mini-maps with enemy /ally markings, etc.

**edit**
AND...looking left or right quickly can't be accurately mimicked. It takes a fraction of a secong to look 90% left or right.  It takes much longer to pan the game camera the same distance and then even more time to move it back.

by which time enemies are no longer where they were, they are probably killing you because you took to long trying to survey the battlefield...how is that realistic?? (your own question)  and again, one reason games have tactical views and mini maps, etc, etc.

not to mention it *IS* a part of DA:O which sets a user expectation that it should also be a part of the sequel, kinda like the DA Toolset (which is also missing)... can't you feel the love bioware is sending its fans?? no, you can't? propbably because it is completely lacking!

Modifié par slipknotts, 11 mars 2011 - 03:57 .

[slipknotts]

soteria:
"Um, no. The problem is that I can cast my fireball directly at an enemy or I can target it way behind them but I can't cast it where I want to, in between there. The character can see where I'm trying to cast, but the UI forces my cursor to "snap-to" the targets. Definitely not a realism issue; it's the interface."

^^^this

it is really annoying and makes it take like 5 minutes of playing with the target ring to *maybe* get it to where it will work as desired...completely LAME

[Koross]

Nice, I started the game on Nightmare and am still playing it now. I really get annoyed when a really tough fight doesn't end and a new wave pops out. At the start, some fights seem impossible but it just teaches you to look out your surroundings and use them to your advantage.

One big advice, remove all the AoE abilities from your tactics. You definitely do not want any of your team mates accidentally using an AoE ability where you are in it.

[vhatever]

Mages are basically heal/buff bots in NM. Don't bother using them for anything else.

[Koross]

slipknotts wrote...

any thoughts on this, anybody....

what's the deal with being staggered / stunned by ***EVERY*** attack??? each battle is a dance to NOT get hit AT ALL. Once I get hit, I'm basically dead, because I can't move quick enough before the next attack so I just stand there looking stupid until I bite dust!?!?!?!?!? WTF... that's not Nightmare Difficulty, that's just stupid and it makes a successful battle take forever which might not be so bad if was not such a tediously boring and frustrating activity.

---run around until I can have enough room to cast a spell with the mage and throw a grenade with my rogue who can then attack maybe twice while enemies are stunned for 4 sec....rinse and repeat--

there is absolutely NO FUN in it, I'd rather go read a book, clean my house, walk my dog, etc, etc

and tactics are **COMPLETELY BROKEN** for instance, my tank:
1) Enemy, any: activate shield defense;
2) Enemy, nearest: taunt
3) Self, surrounded by three or more enemies: activate some skill I can't remember the name of...

so, what does she do??? *NOTHING* she just stands there until an enemy attacks her and then she will maybe fight back. So I have to micro-manage my tank for every move. It just makes the whole "tactics" concept worthless

anybody have similar experiences or has my game gone freakozoid?

I can understand your knockdown and stagger woes. How you resist that is dependant on your strength attribute. Which explains why mages gets knocked down the easiest. I have the same problem with my character. Well, not my character per say since he is a 2H warrior but more to Bethany. I have to really be careful that my tank takes the aggro because Bethany is so fragile. Even ranged hits is enough to stagger her and knock her down sometimes.

The one thing I hate is when the dragon was concentrating on my 2H warrior and he got hit. Oh wow it was just a chain of knockdowns till he died. It was got hit, knock down, stood up, got hit again, knock down, rinse and repeat till dead.

[Cynical_Wanderer]

slipknotts wrote...

any thoughts on this, anybody....

what's the deal with being staggered / stunned by ***EVERY*** attack??? each battle is a dance to NOT get hit AT ALL. Once I get hit, I'm basically dead, because I can't move quick enough before the next attack so I just stand there looking stupid until I bite dust!?!?!?!?!? WTF... that's not Nightmare Difficulty, that's just stupid and it makes a successful battle take forever which might not be so bad if was not such a tediously boring and frustrating activity.

---run around until I can have enough room to cast a spell with the mage and throw a grenade with my rogue who can then attack maybe twice while enemies are stunned for 4 sec....rinse and repeat--

there is absolutely NO FUN in it, I'd rather go read a book, clean my house, walk my dog, etc, etc

and tactics are **COMPLETELY BROKEN** for instance, my tank:
1) Enemy, any: activate shield defense;
2) Enemy, nearest: taunt
3) Self, surrounded by three or more enemies: activate some skill I can't remember the name of...

so, what does she do??? *NOTHING* she just stands there until an enemy attacks her and then she will maybe fight back. So I have to micro-manage my tank for every move. It just makes the whole "tactics" concept worthless

anybody have similar experiences or has my game gone freakozoid?

Welcome to Nightmare, friend You're supposed to micromanage each and every encounter, controlling every sneeze of every group-member. Tactics tab hurts more than helps (aside the tedious stuff like reactivating modes that are supposed to be on 100% of the time anyway).

CC is your best friend, class combos are your new family, tactical positioning (multiple psitions for withdrawal with some good LoS points to cut off ranged and to bottleneck the enemy force) is your favorite sport.

The only thing that used to really, really, *really* enrage the crap out of me were rogues\\assassins in the beginning of the game. It's literally a tank that can 2-shoot your tank. I just didn't have enough tools, nor the burst damage to stunlock them efficiently. And the longer the assassin lives, the more screwed you are - they also steal and drink *your* potions. Just completed the initial Kirkwall quests - just one foot in the Expedition, and there's really no single enemy (beside bosses\\really tough stuff) that I can't burn down in one stunlock.

Koross wrote...

I
can understand your knockdown and stagger woes. How you resist that is
dependant on your strength attribute. Which explains why mages gets
knocked down the easiest. I have the same problem with my character.
Well, not my character per say since he is a 2H warrior but more to
Bethany. I have to really be careful that my tank takes the aggro
because Bethany is so fragile. Even ranged hits is enough to stagger her
and knock her down sometimes.

The one thing I hate is when the
dragon was concentrating on my 2H warrior and he got hit. Oh wow it was
just a chain of knockdowns till he died. It was got hit, knock down,
stood up, got hit again, knock down, rinse and repeat till dead.

Yup. Stack Strength (+fortitude gear\\talents also help) and you won't be staggered by pretty much anything, other than exceptionally powerful attacks. That's why it's important for the Warrior to be the "attention-'ho" role, especially in fights involving hard-hitting ranged (LoS works both ways).

The dragon - yeah, nasty stuff. I just kited it with my 2h warrior within a "triangle" of two mages and a marksman bombarding it with heavy damage (both mages had crushing prison, they cast it each time when the dragon got staggered, Golem's Fist when the dwarf successfully landed a Disorient). No wipes, no deaths, first try. Although, kiting *does* feel like cheating. But tanking wasn't really an option.

[Peter Thomas]

Riloux wrote...

I've been playing on Nightmare so far. I hit a bit of a snag during the Barracks encounter (Someone convince me this isn't impossible) and had to lower the difficulty. Other than that, it's smooth sailing. The Qunari escort encounter took a little bit of time.

The Barracks fight at the end of the gang quest chain in Hightown in Act 1? I'd say that was probably the toughest fight for my party in the whole game (with one possible exception in Act 3 that didn't take me nearly as long to beat). I did beat it, but it might be easier with Sabresandiego's party. OTOH, my party had absolutely no trouble with any dragon anywhere in the game, so it's a bit of a tradeoff.