1216 réponses à ce sujet

[Arppis]

aksoileau wrote...

Am I the only one who really loved the BG and NWN series but also loves this new style of rpg that is ME and DA?

Naw, BioWare has yet to let me down either! 

[Ahglock]

aksoileau wrote...

Am I the only one who really loved the BG and NWN series but also loves this new style of rpg that is ME and DA?

I love them, but lots of times I don't think of them as RPGs much.  I don;t consider it a knock either, it just is lots of times when playing ME2 it is just an action game to me.  Games from all genres have been picking up aspects of other genres for years.  And genre lines have been bluring.  Most action games come with a good story now, it isn't just RPGs with stories now.  I think where RPGers are getting butt hurt is it is one of the genres where it is less additive and more replacing or removal orientated in change. 

If my stealth game adds a cool spy story into it I got an extra, when a RPG replaces combat with action combat is is not purely an extra. Some may find it better, some may find it worse but it is not just getting more.  Similarly when a RPG drops or streamlines the inventory system you were not added a cool new extra that adds more to the game.  Again someone might prefer the streamlined version due to something just being a waste of time you never used(that is where I am at in non-open world rpgs) or whatever but others might mourn the loss. 

[Lawliet89]

This article makes it sound like they played the whole game to come to the conclusion but throughout the whole article, it referred to the demo and at the end of it, even referred to a review to make a judgement. Clearly, the writer has not even played the whole game himself. I call what he has written a bunch of conjecture and I have to disagree with what he has written.

I don't think the combat is simply a matter of button mashing. The cooldown of the spells are not that instantaneous as the writer claimed. I believe on higher difficulties, you still have to pause and think "where and when should I cast the spell" and "Should my rouge/warrior use move x on target y now". Yes the response in the movement is faster but it is not equivalent to button mashing. You could probably get away with not pausing on Normal difficult, which was the case in DA:O but I doubt this will happen on higher difficulties. I am conjecturing and so is the writer. We shall know in a week's time.

Wygrath wrote...

aksoileau wrote...

Am I the only one who really loved the BG and NWN series but also loves this new style of rpg that is ME and DA?

No. I've enjoyed all of those games and I'm eagerly awaiting DA2's release.

The combat really isn't different from Origins. When you cast a spell the exact same thing happens. You place your cone or AoE with the exact same interface.

The only real difference is that you don't have to watch as your character shuffles into position to start attacking, which is a welcome and needed change.

My sentiments exactly!

Modifié par Lawliet89, 04 mars 2011 - 05:28 .

[Mezinger]

While I agree with the general sentiment of the article I don't agree with this:

"While playing the demo, pausing the game to issue an attack on an enemy just felt completely ridiculous, as they would have already landed 3 attacks on you by the time you have done one. The only possible way to do it is to pause and unpause the game every half a second, therefore forcing players to simply mash buttons until the enemy is dead. Dragon Age 2 is a real-time Action-RPG, and so having the pause-play (that only really works with the slower pace of turn-based RPG’s) is just an unnecessary feature rather than another way to play through the game."

1 reason is that I still used pause and play during the demo, bringing up the skills wheel for potions, and healing spells primarily, as well as party target selection.

2nd reason is the demo on consoles didn't have auto-attack enabled the retail version does should make a big difference.

3rd they've landed 3 attacks on you while you do one...? The game is paused so that doesn't seem to make any sense.

I love the skill wheel if they took it out altogether that would be a huge loss.

[Shandyr]

aksoileau wrote...

Am I the only one who really loved the BG and NWN series but also loves this new style of rpg that is ME and DA?

No good sir, you are not.

Me too.

[Wygrath]

Yrkoon wrote...

moilami wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

moilami wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

That same "someone" also bragged about how good Bioware are at the storylines and the companions, and that that is a huge point in their favor.

Doesn't change the fact you are trying to claim ownership of what is a "true" rpg. Is it that hard to jsut say, I prefer "insert game here" type of RPG's? Yes, it is, because you apparently think it adds more meaning to "your" games of choice, because God forbid not everyone enjoyed those games as much as you did.

I have asked once why it is so offensive if I say DA2 is dumbed down for masses. Now I ask it second time.

If I say DA2 has been dumbed down for masses I am not saying I am better person or you are worse person. So why take offense? How I can talk about DA2 without being "offensive"? Should I use some kind of news-speak? Secret language? What?

Huh?

Is anyone here claiming that they're offended by your comments?  Or are you just trying to push a straw man through here?

I for one, am still  at the beginning - trying to figure out  what your definition of "dumbed down" is.  Others have cited more detailed quest journals and  no more non-combat skill trees as an example of DA2 being dumbed down.  and that  confuses the hell out of me for obvious  reasons of contradiction.  But forget that noise.

Show me how they've dumbed down combat in this game  (for example).  Because  combat in DA:O was ridiculously easy and intuitive, but  I'm playing DA2's demo and I'm still trying to figure out all the new effects that  stats have on combat.. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is:  Spit out an argument already,  instead of just  spouting  the canned one liners you've been spouting on every thread you've  posted in.

Yes, there has been at least one.

Someone is dodging....  As everyone here can see

if you can't actually form an argument, then fine.  We'll take  more of your silly one liners. 

I love how valid opinions get modded on this site and internet bullies like you get to post away and antagonize someone with a differing opinion all day long.

Gotta love volunteer mods who uselly tend to focus their attention on modding the people they don't like or disagree with to try to chase them away.

[moilami]

Chugster wrote...

just seems to be another idiot judging a whole game from a early build demo....therefore their opinion will be disregarded

i wouldnt mind if this article was written after they had played the whole game

That happens all the time in Interwebz, and I haven't heard people calling them idiots before. Rather the opposite appears to be true. Commonly peeps appear to make judgements based on judgements done by game reviewer of demo or beta game.

That why if you would had said to me that in a bar I would had had trouble keeping my serious poker face.

[SnakeHelah]

This article is really stupid. Anyone can see that the game is rushed. So what? They did what they could, would you want to wait 5 years for a new dragon age, just to have a tad of better graphics? I wouldn't. Another claim by them, is that this game is now "button mashing". Bull****. I can guarantee that anyone who played origins will still pause and tactically order stuff in DA2. How is pausing everything to issue orders button mashing? The combat is generally just FASTER. Now they did a good thing about making it faster than in origins, but a bad thing in making it a bit too fast. They needed to find that little balance in between there, However as I played it in the demo, I seemed to like the combat fair enough.
Oh yes, graphics, I'm not even going to begin deflecting this argument, they don't look better than in origins? Well, for me they do look better in DA2 actually (though only a bit), but that's just my opinion now isn't it? oh and see those DirectX11 options there on the pc? yes right there...
"PC Games has said that the majority of Dragon Age 2 plays out very much
like the demo, meaning a lot of copy-pasted and narrow paths - ugly." ??
Are those guys ****ing blind? The fact that origins reused a lot of places is clear and yet they don't bash it. Must I even begin explaining how they reused almost everything in DLC's?
And finally "This lack of an open world, combined with the simple combat means that the game slides even further from its origins."
Right, now all I can say that there is as much open world in DA2 as in origins, oh and by making the combat faster, it becomes more simple? Just how dumb is that?
Foolish little article IMO really

[Yrkoon]

moilami wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Someone is dodging....  As everyone here can see

if you can't actually form an argument, then fine.  We'll take  more of your silly one liners. 

No, I just have better things to do.

Like spam  the forums with empty one-liners.  Yes, I think we established this a while ago.

[Ahglock]

Mezinger wrote...

While I agree with the general sentiment of the article I don't agree with this:

"While playing the demo, pausing the game to issue an attack on an enemy just felt completely ridiculous, as they would have already landed 3 attacks on you by the time you have done one. The only possible way to do it is to pause and unpause the game every half a second, therefore forcing players to simply mash buttons until the enemy is dead. Dragon Age 2 is a real-time Action-RPG, and so having the pause-play (that only really works with the slower pace of turn-based RPG’s) is just an unnecessary feature rather than another way to play through the game."

1 reason is that I still used pause and play during the demo, bringing up the skills wheel for potions, and healing spells primarily, as well as party target selection.

2nd reason is the demo on consoles didn't have auto-attack enabled the retail version does should make a big difference.

3rd they've landed 3 attacks on you while you do one...? The game is paused so that doesn't seem to make any sense.

I love the skill wheel if they took it out altogether that would be a huge loss.

My guess on the 3rd point is the act of pausing and unpausing takes player time meanwhile the computer is still doing things.  I didn't really notice this, so it may be a console thing.  So wtihout auto-attack you stop to pause, and you lose a small bit of time in the fight menawhile the computer is still pounding on you. 

[HTTP 404]

Im sorry I didnt read past the first paragraph when I realized this is a rant not an article. There may have been some points but the main theme of the article strikes me as end of the world type drama.

the guy sounds like an old uncle of mine who said everything was better in the old days.  I played Daggerfall back in the day and I think this is an improvement since then not a "declination"

Modifié par HTTP 404, 04 mars 2011 - 05:33 .

[Ziggeh]

moilami wrote...

I have asked once why it is so offensive if I say DA2 is dumbed down for masses. Now I ask it second time.

If I say DA2 has been dumbed down for masses I am not saying I am better person or you are worse person. So why take offense? How I can talk about DA2 without being "offensive"? Should I use some kind of news-speak? Secret language? What?

It's not offensive, it''s just unhelpful. It's not a criticism, it's just bashing. It's a vague pejorative with no real value.

It takes the twin elitist positions that complexity is inherently valuable and popular equals bad. Neither are true in isolation, and so it really amounts to saying "I don't like X because I don't like X".

As to what language you should use, try describing why "dumbing down" is bad. What value was in the lost complexity beyond preference. Why increased game budgets are detrimental.

[Cadaveth]

aksoileau wrote...

Am I the only one who really loved the BG and NWN series but also loves this new style of rpg that is ME and DA?

Nope, I like the Infinity Engine -games and Fallout 1 &2 but DAO and ME -series aren't bad. They're nothing spectacular but they're nonetheless rather interesting. DA2 doesn't have the same quality though. And that's my opinion.

[Yrkoon]

Wygrath wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

moilami wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

moilami wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

That same "someone" also bragged about how good Bioware are at the storylines and the companions, and that that is a huge point in their favor.

Doesn't change the fact you are trying to claim ownership of what is a "true" rpg. Is it that hard to jsut say, I prefer "insert game here" type of RPG's? Yes, it is, because you apparently think it adds more meaning to "your" games of choice, because God forbid not everyone enjoyed those games as much as you did.

I have asked once why it is so offensive if I say DA2 is dumbed down for masses. Now I ask it second time.

If I say DA2 has been dumbed down for masses I am not saying I am better person or you are worse person. So why take offense? How I can talk about DA2 without being "offensive"? Should I use some kind of news-speak? Secret language? What?

Huh?

Is anyone here claiming that they're offended by your comments?  Or are you just trying to push a straw man through here?

I for one, am still  at the beginning - trying to figure out  what your definition of "dumbed down" is.  Others have cited more detailed quest journals and  no more non-combat skill trees as an example of DA2 being dumbed down.  and that  confuses the hell out of me for obvious  reasons of contradiction.  But forget that noise.

Show me how they've dumbed down combat in this game  (for example).  Because  combat in DA:O was ridiculously easy and intuitive, but  I'm playing DA2's demo and I'm still trying to figure out all the new effects that  stats have on combat.. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is:  Spit out an argument already,  instead of just  spouting  the canned one liners you've been spouting on every thread you've  posted in.

Yes, there has been at least one.

Someone is dodging....  As everyone here can see

if you can't actually form an argument, then fine.  We'll take  more of your silly one liners. 

I love how valid opinions get modded on this site and internet bullies like you get to post away and antagonize someone with a differing opinion all day long.

Gotta love volunteer mods who uselly tend to focus their attention on modding the people they don't like or disagree with to try to chase them away.

He asked a question, Didn't he.  And I answered him, then asked him a question of my own.

You wanna call that Bullying you go right ahead.    But don't be surprized if the mods don't see it the way you do.

[moilami]

Yrkoon wrote...

moilami wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Someone is dodging....  As everyone here can see

if you can't actually form an argument, then fine.  We'll take  more of your silly one liners. 

No, I just have better things to do.

Like spam  the forums with empty one-liners.  Yes, I think we established this a while ago.

Is that not better to do?

[Seb Hanlon]

Knock it off, everyone. Bans have been handed out.

[moilami]

Yrkoon wrote...

Wygrath wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

moilami wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

moilami wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

That same "someone" also bragged about how good Bioware are at the storylines and the companions, and that that is a huge point in their favor.

Doesn't change the fact you are trying to claim ownership of what is a "true" rpg. Is it that hard to jsut say, I prefer "insert game here" type of RPG's? Yes, it is, because you apparently think it adds more meaning to "your" games of choice, because God forbid not everyone enjoyed those games as much as you did.

I have asked once why it is so offensive if I say DA2 is dumbed down for masses. Now I ask it second time.

If I say DA2 has been dumbed down for masses I am not saying I am better person or you are worse person. So why take offense? How I can talk about DA2 without being "offensive"? Should I use some kind of news-speak? Secret language? What?

Huh?

Is anyone here claiming that they're offended by your comments?  Or are you just trying to push a straw man through here?

I for one, am still  at the beginning - trying to figure out  what your definition of "dumbed down" is.  Others have cited more detailed quest journals and  no more non-combat skill trees as an example of DA2 being dumbed down.  and that  confuses the hell out of me for obvious  reasons of contradiction.  But forget that noise.

Show me how they've dumbed down combat in this game  (for example).  Because  combat in DA:O was ridiculously easy and intuitive, but  I'm playing DA2's demo and I'm still trying to figure out all the new effects that  stats have on combat.. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is:  Spit out an argument already,  instead of just  spouting  the canned one liners you've been spouting on every thread you've  posted in.

Yes, there has been at least one.

Someone is dodging....  As everyone here can see

if you can't actually form an argument, then fine.  We'll take  more of your silly one liners. 

I love how valid opinions get modded on this site and internet bullies like you get to post away and antagonize someone with a differing opinion all day long.

Gotta love volunteer mods who uselly tend to focus their attention on modding the people they don't like or disagree with to try to chase them away.

He asked a question, Didn't he.  And I answered him, then asked him a question of my own.

You wanna call that Bullying you go right ahead.    But don't be surprized if the mods don't see it the way you do.

No you did not answer. You denied my question and asked yourself a question. That is commonly called dodging a question.

[Mezinger]

aksoileau wrote...

Am I the only one who really loved the BG and NWN series but also loves this new style of rpg that is ME and DA?

No you're not alone, I loved ME1... ME2 was a little too streamlined for my tastes, and the new cover and heat clip mechanics I found overly repetitive and unnecessary. 

Even DA:O wasn't pure classic cRPG, it was more action-ie than a '98 RPG or the old gold boxes. So it's all about finding the balance and different folks have different ideas about what that balance should be like. I liked DA:O, I hope I enjoy DA:2 more... but I am a little skeptical... My top 3 games of all time currently; NWN, ME1 and DA:O... we'll see if DA:2 can join podium... I hope it can succeed were ME2 failed...  these are all Bioware releases so obviously I'm a big fan and hate to be disappointed because Bethesda doesn't do it for me... I haven't tried the Witcher, but maybe if DA:2 is a bust for me I'll try the Witcher 2 if it comes to the console. We'll see! March 8th can't get here soon enough. 

Modifié par Mezinger, 04 mars 2011 - 05:41 .

[upsettingshorts]

More repetitive than ME1's mechanic of point gun in general direction of target, hold down trigger until it dies?

[AzuraLuna]

"The Decline of the classic RPG"?

Ah yes, I remember the good old days, with my Crown Royal bag o' dice and notebook of characters.  I still have all of my books.

Oh, computer RPGs.

Ah yes, I remember the good old days, when my character was a little square on the screen.  The enemies were @, treasure was #, and I had to type in whatever I wanted my little square to do.  "Walk north."  "Look wall." "Attack monster".

Then they changed it.  Suddenly there was something semi-realistic in the graphics.  Yes, it was the same archway or set of stairs or clump of trees, but it actually looked like bricks and rocks.  And I didn't have to type anymore, but my choices were limited to what was on the list of options at each screen.

Then they changed it again.  I could now actually move my character around the screen.  I was limited to up, down, left, and right, but I could move!  Combat was dumbed down, though.  On some games I had to actually run in to enemies to battle them.  On others I had to choose from a list and sit there and wait for everyone to take their turn.

Et cetera.  Games do change.  There are advances in technology that change how they are presented and how they are played.  Companies need to adapt or get left behind.  Some changes are great, some not so great, but the players ultimately benefit from it.  If you truly miss the "good old days" of RPGs, go to a thrift store or pawn shop or eBay and find some of the older games.  You'll either be happily immersed in nostalgia or grateful that games have evolved.  Or both.

[HTTP 404]

hooked games reminds me of TMZ.  eh Im out of this thread

Modifié par HTTP 404, 04 mars 2011 - 05:44 .

[Mezinger]

Ahglock wrote...

Mezinger wrote...

While I agree with the general sentiment of the article I don't agree with this:

"While playing the demo, pausing the game to issue an attack on an enemy just felt completely ridiculous, as they would have already landed 3 attacks on you by the time you have done one. The only possible way to do it is to pause and unpause the game every half a second, therefore forcing players to simply mash buttons until the enemy is dead. Dragon Age 2 is a real-time Action-RPG, and so having the pause-play (that only really works with the slower pace of turn-based RPG’s) is just an unnecessary feature rather than another way to play through the game."

1 reason is that I still used pause and play during the demo, bringing up the skills wheel for potions, and healing spells primarily, as well as party target selection.

2nd reason is the demo on consoles didn't have auto-attack enabled the retail version does should make a big difference.

3rd they've landed 3 attacks on you while you do one...? The game is paused so that doesn't seem to make any sense.

I love the skill wheel if they took it out altogether that would be a huge loss.

My guess on the 3rd point is the act of pausing and unpausing takes player time meanwhile the computer is still doing things.  I didn't really notice this, so it may be a console thing.  So wtihout auto-attack you stop to pause, and you lose a small bit of time in the fight menawhile the computer is still pounding on you. 

That could be. I played on the PS3 and didn't notice this as much as the article author is making it out to be... I think it's probably an exaggeration. However, I did feel like I was sorely missing the auto-attack toggle. 

[JigPig]

Hooked Gamers Halo: Reach review.
Graphics 8.5
Sound 10
Interface 9.5
Replay 9.0
Gameplay 9.5
Stability 9.0
9.5

[Maria Caliban]

Deciding that Dragon Age II is not a classic RPG based on a 30 minute demo is stupid. In the first 30 minutes of BGI, you get to walk around a single, tiny environment, find someone a book and fight rats with a single character.

[Taleroth]

JigPig wrote...

Hooked Gamers Halo: Reach review.
Graphics 8.5
Sound 10
Interface 9.5
Replay 9.0
Gameplay 9.5
Stability 9.0
9.5

Halo: Reach was a pretty good game.  I have no appreciation for the weapon balance in multiplayer, but the single player was fantastic.