1216 réponses à ce sujet

[Elsariel]

mindbody wrote...

Elsariel wrote...

Erm... well, that sounds like fun but shouldn't that be made for a different franchise, then?  I don't see how a game like that would be a good fit for Dragon Age.

Hehe. You know there is a Dragon Age tabletop RPG, right?

Actually, I didn't!  Very cool... too bad I don't know anyone who's into tabletop anymore... *sadness*

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

@ Sylvius

Your underlying theme of it breaking roleplaying by ascribing more info than you want is flawed. It appears that all you want is a blank slate in order for you to ascribe whatever you would like in whatever situation.

[Elsariel]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Elsariel wrote...

Erm... well, that sounds like fun but shouldn't that be made for a different franchise, then?  I don't see how a game like that would be a good fit for Dragon Age.

Why not?  DAO did a pretty good job of it, actually.  All I'd drop are those cutscenes that show events the Warden isn't actually witnessing, and I'd remove the depth of field and lens-flare effects from the conversations and remaining cutscenes.

The game hardly needs to be changed at all.

But you're still okay with the guided storyline?  I'm confused.  I thought it was said that you prefered a completely free environment.  Where you stumble across events instead of being guided through them.  My apologies if that's not what you were talking about. 

[mindbody]

Before this thread goes off the rails, I'd like to submit that, though the article was obviously written by someone who doesn't know as much about DA2 as many of the people on this forum do, and someone who has an agenda, one point is undeniably true: The speed of DA2 (based on demo) and the lack of an iso cam change how the game is played for many people. If you play on console, this may not be so... The slower-paced movement and birds-eye view favor a point and click interface where positioning is of greater importance. And pause and play allows a PC useer to manage positioning for all characters simultaneously. DA2 has minimized the importance of positioning by removing FF except on nightmare, by making movements occur at light-speed, and by exaggerating the movements which do occur, a-la the ninja rogue jump. "classical" RPGs, as people are calling them, rely on positioning, reach, and movement for party-based combat, which is the very core of tactical gameplay.

[AlanC9]

Vohnn wrote...

This article made me lol from the circular logic about pause, to saying DA:O graphics were better.

I actually lol-ed a little earlier. On the first page they talk about the Baldur's Gate tradition, and then they complain about how DA2 only lets you play a character with "predetermined, race, identity, and history." Two out of three of those, of course, are predetermined in Baldur's Gate itself.

And can someone explain to me how a fast game makes pausing less useful?

[Sylvius the Mad]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

@ Sylvius

Your underlying theme of it breaking roleplaying by ascribing more info than you want is flawed.

It's not just giving us extra information, but it's also hiding information from us.  Those depth of field effects obscure those things which are out of focus.

It appears that all you want is a blank slate in order for you to ascribe whatever you would like in whatever situation.

Of course I do.  BioWare cannot possibly foresee what specific intent or interest my character will have from moment to moment.  Are you willing to let them place suich obvious limits on your roleplaying?

[mindbody]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

@ Sylvius

Your underlying theme of it breaking roleplaying by ascribing more info than you want is flawed. It appears that all you want is a blank slate in order for you to ascribe whatever you would like in whatever situation.

I should mention that I took it upon myself to ascribe to him the desire for Bioware to create encounters rather than create stories, if you are using that as a basis for your comment.  If not, please ignore.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Elsariel wrote...

But you're still okay with the guided storyline?  I'm confused.  I thought it was said that you prefered a completely free environment.  Where you stumble across events instead of being guided through them.  My apologies if that's not what you were talking about. 

I don't want the guiding to be explicit.

Yes, ideally I'd like a free-roam world like Baldur's Gate had (Mass Effect had this, too), but even games without a free roam (BG2 and KotOR are good examples) still allow the player's character to make decisions and form impressions about what to do next without being forcibly prodded by the game.

I'd like there not to be cinematic conversations, because changing the camera mode distances me from my character.  The game should forever be trying not to distance me from my character, and yet BioWare keeps adding features that do exactly that.

[TwistedComplex]

slimgrin wrote...

Bioware is not the flagship of RPG's.

They're the most popular RPG maker in the world, so they kind of are

[Sylvius the Mad]

mindbody wrote...

I should mention that I took it upon myself to ascribe to him the desire for Bioware to create encounters rather than create stories, if you are using that as a basis for your comment.  If not, please ignore.

That was a fair assessment.  I've often said their job is to create a setting and populate it with characters.  Encounters would be a subset of that.

[Cadaveth]

TwistedComplex wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Bioware is not the flagship of RPG's.

They're the most popular RPG maker in the world, so they kind of are

Along with Obsidian and Bethesda, atleast in the mainstream.

If Obsidian is seriously considering doing Icewind Dale 3, they're the winners.

[Merced652]

TwistedComplex wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Bioware is not the flagship of RPG's.

They're the most popular interactive movie maker in the world, so they kind of are

hows it taste?

[robmokron]

Its nice to see an article that is proffessionally negative on the game, not some biased sell-point, but I will imagine if Dragon Age 2 Does not capture the Dragin Age fanbase, Dragon Age 3 ill be a knock out

[AkiKishi]

AlanC9 wrote...
I actually lol-ed a little earlier. On the first page they talk about the Baldur's Gate tradition, and then they complain about how DA2 only lets you play a character with "predetermined, race, identity, and history." Two out of three of those, of course, are predetermined in Baldur's Gate itself.

And can someone explain to me how a fast game makes pausing less useful?

Well like he said, unless you are a habitual pauser, in the time it takes to think "I should pause" and do it, you just got hit a few times.

The entirely down to the sped up combat.

[mindbody]

Cadaveth wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Bioware is not the flagship of RPG's.

They're the most popular RPG maker in the world, so they kind of are

Along with Obsidian and Bethesda, atleast in the mainstream.

If Obsidian is seriously considering doing Icewind Dale 3, they're the winners.

Do you or anyone else have any more info on this? So curious...

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

@ Sylvius

Your underlying theme of it breaking roleplaying by ascribing more info than you want is flawed.

It's not just giving us extra information, but it's also hiding information from us.  Those depth of field effects obscure those things which are out of focus.

It appears that all you want is a blank slate in order for you to ascribe whatever you would like in whatever situation.

Of course I do.  BioWare cannot possibly foresee what specific intent or interest my character will have from moment to moment.  Are you willing to let them place suich obvious limits on your roleplaying?

Then you are not really arguing this on the principle of it breaking immersion by having limitations. the fact that it is a game created by someone else that you are partaking in means you will never roleplay. in fact the only way you could is if you created your own game in private.

[Elsariel]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Elsariel wrote...

But you're still okay with the guided storyline?  I'm confused.  I thought it was said that you prefered a completely free environment.  Where you stumble across events instead of being guided through them.  My apologies if that's not what you were talking about. 

I don't want the guiding to be explicit.

Yes, ideally I'd like a free-roam world like Baldur's Gate had (Mass Effect had this, too), but even games without a free roam (BG2 and KotOR are good examples) still allow the player's character to make decisions and form impressions about what to do next without being forcibly prodded by the game.

I'd like there not to be cinematic conversations, because changing the camera mode distances me from my character.  The game should forever be trying not to distance me from my character, and yet BioWare keeps adding features that do exactly that.

Don't you have multiple choices in DA2 with how to handle a situation?  How are you being limited in that way any more so than you are in DA:O?  Just because the choices are all arranged around a wheel instead of a list doesn't mean you don't have as many choices.

I guess I'm not understanding how one is being "forcibly prodded".  Would you be willing to elaborate?

Regarding cinematic conversations.. well, I think that's just a matter of personal preference. I don't feel my level of immersion is any less because the camera shifts or blurs the distance, but that's just me.  I find I'm able to immerse myself in just about any RPG as long as I'm able to choose my character's looks, class, and personality by method of choosing my actions. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Then you are not really arguing this on the principle of it breaking immersion by having limitations. the fact that it is a game created by someone else that you are partaking in means you will never roleplay. in fact the only way you could is if you created your own game in private.

How could you possibly have reached that conclusion?

[AkiKishi]

mindbody wrote...

Cadaveth wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Bioware is not the flagship of RPG's.

They're the most popular RPG maker in the world, so they kind of are

Along with Obsidian and Bethesda, atleast in the mainstream.

If Obsidian is seriously considering doing Icewind Dale 3, they're the winners.

Do you or anyone else have any more info on this? So curious...

I'm looking forward to how the handle DS, SquareEnix is the publisher.

[Merced652]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Then you are not really arguing this on the principle of it breaking immersion by having limitations. the fact that it is a game created by someone else that you are partaking in means you will never roleplay. in fact the only way you could is if you created your own game in private.

How could you possibly have reached that conclusion?

I'm going to guess its because he has never RP'd outside of some ****ty morality system.

[AlanC9]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Well like he said, unless you are a habitual pauser, in the time it takes to think "I should pause" and do it, you just got hit a few times.  

Right, and if you're making any other kind of decision which takes you that long to think about, you'll still get hit as many times. Is deciding whether or not to pause that much harder than deciding on any other gameplay action you might want to take? That seems so intensely silly that I must be misreading you.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Elsariel wrote...

Don't you have multiple choices in DA2 with how to handle a situation?  How are you being limited in that way any more so than you are in DA:O?  Just because the choices are all arranged around a wheel instead of a list doesn't mean you don't have as many choices.

That you don't know what the options are is, I think, a big difference, but that's not what I was talking about.

I was talking about the game trying to frame your impression of events.  They seem to want you to interpret events in a specific way, to draw specific conclusions about specific characters, and to have objectives that were pre-determined by them.

And I think that's antithetical to roleplaying.

I also think that BioWare has generally done quite a good job of not constraining the player's ability to make these sort of decisions.  ME, obviously, didn't let the player do any roleplaying, and Jade Empire did tend to guide the
player along with its strictly linear environments, but otherwise they have a terrific track record.

[baddogkelevra]

The only part of the review with which I agree is that the conversation wheel limits our choices. I don't mind the wheel itself, only that it lends itself to you consistently picking one side of the wheel each time. I had this same feeling when I played Mass Effect 2, when the game actually limited your late-game persuasion skills because you weren't renegade or paragon enough. I wish the system could be built with role playing in mind, meaning that my character may start as an insufferable bastard, but may change by the end of the game 10 freaking years later. Any change I could manually incite, such as picking diplomatic instead of sarcastic, would come off as a drastic paradigm shift, not the natural progression of character.

[Zkyire]

ibortolis wrote...

Everyone can sympathise with their decision to add real-time combat to
the game

Origins had "real time" combat too.

The only difference is that DA2's combat is a little faster.

[Biefstukfriet]

Damn old people. Retirement homes shouldn´t have internet access.