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An article on "Dragon Age II: The Decline of the classic RPG"


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#526
Sylvius the Mad

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Graunt wrote...

Baldur's Gate/TotSC, Baldur's Gate 2/Throne of Bhaal/Icewind Dale (and all expansions)/Torment/Neverwinter Nights (and all expansions), Neverwinter Nights 2 (and all expansions) and Dragon Age (and all expansions) virtually all played exactly the same.

All the same, and all very well.

It's not unreasonable for someone to judge a new system as a lesser system.  The old system was clearly successful enough to appear in a great many games.

Yep, other than the butchering they did to biotics, ME2 had vastly improved gameplay/replayability.

I didn't find that at all.  Aside from the atmospheric level design (ME2 was better at this), I preferred ME in nearly every way.  I found the combat more enjoyable with the stat-driven aiming and the lack of reloading, and I liked he free-roaming exploration offered by the uncharted worlds.  I liked driving the Mako.  And I thought ME's level design, while less atmospheric that ME2's levels, offered more enjoyable combat environments.

#527
Sylvius the Mad

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MaxxBeav wrote...

Most logical people would throw done three hundred bucks for a console system rather than a few thousand for a home built gaming pc. I can see how that is going to drive gaming company decisions. Heck, I’m still glad there are pc versions – thank you laptop owners.

This isn't really relevant to your point, but I need to point out that you're badly misrepresenting both PC and console gaming here.

First, "a few thousand" is far too much for a gaming PC.  I can see paying as much as two thousand, including a monitor, if you were building a brand new rig and wanted it future-proof, but anything beyond that and you're overpaying.

And to play new games at anything less than bleeding edge settings, I'd suggest that $1000 is easily enough.

Second, you're understating the cost of console gaming, as you're not allowing for the price of a television.  People do this all the time, but I don't undersatnd why.  Console gamers need a display, too.  And that display costs money.

#528
Yamsandjams

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If DA2 doesn't live up to it's predecessor, perhaps this is just another reminder that people should always have lower expectations of sequels, even if they turn out to be awesome anyway.s

#529
slimgrin

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Yamsandjams wrote...

If DA2 doesn't live up to it's predecessor, perhaps this is just another reminder that people should always have lower expectations of sequels, even if they turn out to be awesome anyway.s


DA2 is so completely different than its predecessor, which is one of my major gripes with it. 

#530
ransompendragon

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And seems to be different just to be different.

@Sylvius, I love your posts. Excellent point about the TV. And yes, a good gaming PC can be built for even less than $1000 and one plenty good to play DA2 for significantly less.

#531
HTTP 404

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...

[

HTTP 404 wrote...

I like Sylvius but I swear he probably likes math equations.

Math equations are puzzles.  I like solving puzzles.

Even more fun that solving them is building them.  Designing an equation to describe a phenomenon accurately.  Or parsing language into its formal logical structure.  I'm exceptionally good at that.


I knew it!  I respect that though

#532
Graunt

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...

MaxxBeav wrote...

Most logical people would throw done three hundred bucks for a console system rather than a few thousand for a home built gaming pc. I can see how that is going to drive gaming company decisions. Heck, I’m still glad there are pc versions – thank you laptop owners.

This isn't really relevant to your point, but I need to point out that you're badly misrepresenting both PC and console gaming here.

First, "a few thousand" is far too much for a gaming PC.  I can see paying as much as two thousand, including a monitor, if you were building a brand new rig and wanted it future-proof, but anything beyond that and you're overpaying.

And to play new games at anything less than bleeding edge settings, I'd suggest that $1000 is easily enough.

Second, you're understating the cost of console gaming, as you're not allowing for the price of a television.  People do this all the time, but I don't undersatnd why.  Console gamers need a display, too.  And that display costs money.


Probably because most people are going to get a television whether or not they play console games on it, while not everyone has a need for a PC.  It's a lot more common for a PC gamer to have a "gaming rig" or setup specifically built around gaming than it is a console gamer buying a new stereo system and television for console gaming alone.  

Console gaming is much cheaper than PC gaming, especially if you rent games.  This is especially true in households with children.  You can't honestly be suggesting that a PC is as childproof to a ten year old than what a Wii or 360 is -- consoles are also less expensive to repair.   On top of that, your average "good" television will last around six to eight years, while the truly great ones can last a little over ten.  If you aren't spending $500+ on a much smaller PC monitor, you will have to replace it every three or four.

Lastly, consoles will get you through the next four to five years of gaming, while a PC will not without upgrades along the way.  Building a new "medium" level gaming rig costs right around $1,500 and those are usually only able to keep up for three years without buying a new graphics card.  When you do end up getting a new graphics card, they usually cost as much as a console, if not more unless you wait six to eight months after they've been released, and by then you're even farther behind the curve.

Modifié par Graunt, 05 mars 2011 - 07:32 .


#533
Taitiana

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What I'm interested in is the title.

"The Decline of the classic RPG"...

I've recently started to play Baldur's Gate 1 for the first time and am enjoying it, though I'm not seeing its resemblence to DA:O....making it (optionally) point and click/pausing just makes it seem classic.

Anyhow, when did Dragon Age become a classic RPG? It's a modern RPG, or something like that. *Cuts off self from continuing*

#534
Yamsandjams

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I spent 3k on my gaming rig, but everything was brand new and I was coming up from a 6 year old rig. The CPU, GPU, and monitor were already about 1k, The 2k was from all the other components. Admittedly, I probably could've saved a bit on the keyboard/mouse, and I probably didn't need to get the second hard drive right away. But the case is really nice... can definitely make use of it for a long time.

#535
HTTP 404

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Taitiana wrote...

What I'm interested in is the title.

"The Decline of the classic RPG"...

I've recently started to play Baldur's Gate 1 for the first time and am enjoying it, though I'm not seeing its resemblence to DA:O....making it (optionally) point and click/pausing just makes it seem classic.

Anyhow, when did Dragon Age become a classic RPG? It's a modern RPG, or something like that. *Cuts off self from continuing*


did you see the chart under the title?  it shows that rpgs  are declining!

Modifié par HTTP 404, 05 mars 2011 - 07:35 .


#536
Lennonkun

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Yamsandjams wrote...

I spent 3k on my gaming rig, but everything was brand new and I was coming up from a 6 year old rig. The CPU, GPU, and monitor were already about 1k, The 2k was from all the other components. Admittedly, I probably could've saved a bit on the keyboard/mouse, and I probably didn't need to get the second hard drive right away. But the case is really nice... can definitely make use of it for a long time.


Exactly what the hell did you buy?

My mind is boggled trying to figure this out...

#537
mindbody

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Lennonkun wrote...

Yamsandjams wrote...

I spent 3k on my gaming rig, but everything was brand new and I was coming up from a 6 year old rig. The CPU, GPU, and monitor were already about 1k, The 2k was from all the other components. Admittedly, I probably could've saved a bit on the keyboard/mouse, and I probably didn't need to get the second hard drive right away. But the case is really nice... can definitely make use of it for a long time.


Exactly what the hell did you buy?

My mind is boggled trying to figure this out...

That was when the they sold deep blue, I think.  Didn't want to play chess anymore, wanted to play old-school RPGs, but there was only....
DA2!

#538
Taitiana

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Dammit. Dissed, of course, and my question unanswered.

Probably shouldn't of put it like that.

I'm just confused how DA:O is somehow carrying on the classic RPG line while it's nothing like Baldur's Gate. Whatever decline happened already happened, everyone saw it. The transition of DA:O to DA2 is just a simplified version of it.

#539
Graunt

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Taitiana wrote...

Dammit. Dissed, of course, and my question unanswered.

Probably shouldn't of put it like that.

I'm just confused how DA:O is somehow carrying on the classic RPG line while it's nothing like Baldur's Gate. Whatever decline happened already happened, everyone saw it. The transition of DA:O to DA2 is just a simplified version of it.


It's exactly like Baldur's Gate except for the perspective since that can be modified and the screen changes with the camera swiveling.  None of that is anything more than eyecandy through current technology.  The actual gameplay mechanics are the same.  If you're using tactics (tactic slots) all you're doing is programming the horrible AI to work how it should, and then it's mostly automated.  If you're never pausing and doing everything in real time, you're playing on Casual or Normal.  

Even Bioware has stated numerous times that it's the "spriitual successor to Baldur's Gate 2".  I'm pretty sure when the developer is telling you that they made it to resemble something, that there's a high chance that there is going to be a resemblance.

Modifié par Graunt, 05 mars 2011 - 08:02 .


#540
graylshaped

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It's time for someone to post a link to an article lamenting the Decline of Journalistic Standards. Geez, give a guy a blog and people start believing that "every opinion counts" crap.

#541
Buffy-Summers

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I applaud the OP for posting the article

I applaud the article writer

I wished on a genie lamp or flemeth's broomstick that more people felt like the writer of that article

Hopefully, this game will get to some of the hardcore RPG players and give them a low score

I really cant stand the slow death of the true RPG

#542
Taitiana

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Graunt wrote...

Taitiana wrote...

Dammit. Dissed, of course, and my question unanswered.

Probably shouldn't of put it like that.

I'm just confused how DA:O is somehow carrying on the classic RPG line while it's nothing like Baldur's Gate. Whatever decline happened already happened, everyone saw it. The transition of DA:O to DA2 is just a simplified version of it.


It's exactly like Baldur's Gate except for the perspective since that can be modified and the screen changes with the camera swiveling.  If you're using tactics (tactic slots) all you're doing is programming the horrible AI to work how it should, and then it's mostly automated.  If you're never pausing and doing everything in real time, you're playing on Casual or Normal.  


(Really need to work on my wording of things).

'Exactly like Baldur's Gate'...perhaps if you consider the general gameplay concept, though I'm going to add in a sort of sappy fashion 'there's two unique feelings you get from each game'-BG felt like it had substance...it seems more truer to what a RPG was/is supposedly to be (flaws or not). DA:O is epic yet more abyssal.  

Heh, sorry about saying 'nothing' though. A game to me, however, isn't just the interface.

#543
Yamsandjams

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Graunt wrote...

Taitiana wrote...

Dammit. Dissed, of course, and my question unanswered.

Probably shouldn't of put it like that.

I'm just confused how DA:O is somehow carrying on the classic RPG line while it's nothing like Baldur's Gate. Whatever decline happened already happened, everyone saw it. The transition of DA:O to DA2 is just a simplified version of it.


It's exactly like Baldur's Gate except for the perspective since that can be modified and the screen changes with the camera swiveling.  None of that is anything more than eyecandy through current technology.  The actual gameplay mechanics are the same.  If you're using tactics (tactic slots) all you're doing is programming the horrible AI to work how it should, and then it's mostly automated.  If you're never pausing and doing everything in real time, you're playing on Casual or Normal.  

Even Bioware has stated numerous times that it's the "spriitual successor to Baldur's Gate 2".  I'm pretty sure when the developer is telling you that they made it to resemble something, that there's a high chance that there is going to be a resemblance.


It's very different from Baldur's Gate, namely because it's not based on 2nd Edition D&D rules. "Spiritual sucessor" only means sucessor in spirit, meaning it tries to capture the spirit of the game, not the mechanics. And no, I wouldn't list DA:O as a classic RPG either. In fact, I'm pretty sure I used to be reading comments back then about how it was becoming too much like WoW... although everything is becoming too much like well, according to all the memos.

I didn't like how the DA2 demo didn't have a "top down" sort of camera that you can pan the area with. Hopefully they'll have that in the release version, or perhaps in some kind of update. I'd usually switch up the camera mode depending on the situation in Origins.

#544
Graunt

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graylshaped wrote...

It's time for someone to post a link to an article lamenting the Decline of Journalistic Standards. Geez, give a guy a blog and people start believing that "every opinion counts" crap.


This is an ugly trend that I've noticed that has been increasing steadily over the last eight or so years.

#545
HighlandBerserkr

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Ok this article is stupid just like everyone else who thinks the combat has changed, IT PLAYS JUST LIKE ORIGINS! ****ing morons, give it a rest and stop ****ing.

#546
Lennonkun

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What I find hilarious is people bashing Rock, Paper, Shotgun when they are one of the few remaining true PC sites around and tell it like it is.

#547
Graunt

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Taitiana wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Taitiana wrote...

Dammit. Dissed, of course, and my question unanswered.

Probably shouldn't of put it like that.

I'm just confused how DA:O is somehow carrying on the classic RPG line while it's nothing like Baldur's Gate. Whatever decline happened already happened, everyone saw it. The transition of DA:O to DA2 is just a simplified version of it.


It's exactly like Baldur's Gate except for the perspective since that can be modified and the screen changes with the camera swiveling.  If you're using tactics (tactic slots) all you're doing is programming the horrible AI to work how it should, and then it's mostly automated.  If you're never pausing and doing everything in real time, you're playing on Casual or Normal.  


(Really need to work on my wording of things).

'Exactly like Baldur's Gate'...perhaps if you consider the general gameplay concept, though I'm going to add in a sort of sappy fashion 'there's two unique feelings you get from each game'-BG felt like it had substance...it seems more truer to what a RPG was/is supposedly to be (flaws or not). DA:O is epic yet more abyssal.  

Heh, sorry about saying 'nothing' though. A game to me, however, isn't just the interface.


Oh, if you want to compare the way a game "feels", then I would agree that Origins doesn't "feel" much like Baldur's Gate in the areas that really count.  

Although I'm not sure if that's just nostalgia talking or what.  It may also have to do with the fact that since it wasn't polygon driven, it was much easier to give each area a distinct and varied (and busier) look, plus even though they hardly had any lines to say, I think most of the NPCs in those games had more personality in their pinkies than anyone in Origins (again, aside from the fantastic Morrigan and the runnerup Alistair).

#548
Yamsandjams

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mindbody wrote...

Lennonkun wrote...

Yamsandjams wrote...

I spent 3k on my gaming rig, but everything was brand new and I was coming up from a 6 year old rig. The CPU, GPU, and monitor were already about 1k, The 2k was from all the other components. Admittedly, I probably could've saved a bit on the keyboard/mouse, and I probably didn't need to get the second hard drive right away. But the case is really nice... can definitely make use of it for a long time.


Exactly what the hell did you buy?

My mind is boggled trying to figure this out...

That was when the they sold deep blue, I think.  Didn't want to play chess anymore, wanted to play old-school RPGs, but there was only....
DA2!


Most of the equipment was top-of-the-line stuff. The monitor is an LG 24" (16:9 widescreen) at about $250 - $300, GPU is a GTX 480 I got for about $500 (if I had waited a little longer I probably could've got it cheaper), and the CPU is a Core i7 950 which was going for around $300, I think. The harddrives were both 450 GB 10000 RPM WD VelociRaptor models, although I could probably have just gotten one of them. I think they were about $200 - $250 each, though I can't quite remember. Also got 6 GB of DDR3. The case was kind of fancy, but it's got great passive cooling... I think that one was about $180. So that's about half of it right there. I think I spent about $200 on the motherboard, about the same on the power supply, and I guess the rest was mostly peripherals. Then you gotta add sales tax and such. Plus, the prices tend to be a little higher up here than they are down south.

But hey, when you make the trasnition from 20 FPS world to 60 FPS world, you don't complain for a single second.

#549
Bryy_Miller

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Taitiana wrote...

What I'm interested in is the title.

"The Decline of the classic RPG"...

I've recently started to play Baldur's Gate 1 for the first time and am enjoying it, though I'm not seeing its resemblence to DA:O....making it (optionally) point and click/pausing just makes it seem classic.

Anyhow, when did Dragon Age become a classic RPG? It's a modern RPG, or something like that. *Cuts off self from continuing*


Instant classic is a meaningless term.

#550
Taitiana

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It's probably not nostalgia-In BG you feel like you're touring a actual world. And DA:O...meh, don't get that same vibe. The skeleton is there, sure. But the heart isn't.

(lame/lazy metaphor/literary devices and feeling tired, disillusioned, and foolish...that's the cue.)

Good night to anyone reading this-I've gotten a answer from the replies, even though one full of gaps.

And I'm seeing where I screwed over some people with my comments: not looking at the two games on a technical 'classic RPG' scale. *Face palms*