1216 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

I don't fear change.

I fear change for the worse...

[Dorian the Monk of Sune]

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

People need to adapt. People need to accept that the days of Baldur's Gate are done. Adapt or you will be complaining until you are old and grey.

The changes are not BAD. I honest do not see what these people are up and on against... All I see are a bunch of rose-colored glasses wearing geeks that are are afraid of change.

I just want to chime that, that is not me. If I was afraid of change I would prefer Gold Box combat to the infinity Engine as Pool of Radiance is still my favorite RPG. I would prefer 2nd edition D&D to 3rd but I dont. I think New Vegas is better than FO 2. When things change for the better I'm there. When I compare BG to DA BG spanks it father child. the choice and consequence  and cut scense of DA:O arent enough. 

[AkiKishi]

termokanden wrote...

Dragon Age was pretty much what I thought it would be before I bought it.

You know the funny thing is I was expecting Mass Effect in fantasy land I was pleasently suprised when they was not the case and I could actually create a character. But It looks like my expectations were only off by one game.

[AkiKishi]

Dorian the Monk of Sune wrote...
Did it work?

http://www.vgchartz.....php?name=fable

1Fable II (X360) 4.05 million






Fable III (X360) 2.89 million

Maybe a good kick in the teeth in terms of sales will do them good.

[Medhia Nox]

What was so amazing about Balder's Gate - I don't even remember the storyline anymore. Just NPCs who had memorable one liners like: "Go for the eyes Bo! Go for the eyes!" "Eh'o it's me, Imoen." And "Greetings mercenaries, it's me, Silkie!!" That hardly makes a world shattering stellar RPG to me.

Of course Jon Irenicus was a well written villain, but I don't recall the story being anything more than tradition D&D/fantasy fare.

It's was completely linear if I recall. Character building is a small part of an RPG to me. Min/maxing my stats is not part of an RPG at all to me. Itemization, while necessary, again is not a significant part of an RPG for me.

Modern RPGs allow me to manipulate the gaming world (again, NWN Persistant worlds were superior to all). I can blow up towns with nukes - I can become a slaver, and bring in wasteland citizens for money - I can kill children possessed by demons - a lot of dialogue and energy are spent fleshing out my NPC allies.

Modern RPGs are far superior.

[termokanden]

Medhia Nox wrote...

... I don't recall the story being anything more than tradition D&D/fantasy fare.

It's pretty traditional but I liked it.

It's was completely linear if I recall.

It wasn't. There were plenty of side quests and areas you didn't HAVE to explore to win the game. The main plot of course was linear, but in Bioware style you could choose different paths to get to each "checkpoint". One of the quests was just to get a truckload of gold somehow. Then you had to explore the world and find out how, and there really were many ways to get there.

Character building is a small part of an RPG to me. Min/maxing my stats is not part of an RPG at all to me. Itemization, while necessary, again is not a significant part of an RPG for me.

Honestly this part means a lot to me personally. I like that kind of thing. It was actually the main reason I liked NWN (with HotU): making weird character builds. It shouldn't be the main part of an RPG, but it's definitely something I like.

Modern RPGs are far superior.

I can still enjoy old games, and I still think Baldur's Gate 2 is far superior to many modern RPGs. It's not all about graphics, it's also about atmosphere and storytelling.

[AkiKishi]

Medhia Nox wrote...

It's was completely linear if I recall. Character building is a small part of an RPG to me. Min/maxing my stats is not part of an RPG at all to me. Itemization, while necessary, again is not a significant part of an RPG for me.

Linear and non liear are not dependent on overland travel. Baldurs Gate was just like fast travel in the Bethesda games, only you did not need to visit it first, only become aware that it existed.

Baldurs Gate had a lot of optional areas.

[88mphSlayer]

anybody else think the blighted lands should've looked like this? http://i.imgur.com/279ig.jpg

dead stuff, but everything didn't vaporize like a nuclear explosion just went off

[Graunt]

Dorian the Monk of Sune wrote...
How did they make that conclusion? My last 20 hours of DA:O was that of boredom, and tired mechanics. I have never quit an RPG except DA:O because of it. You have people like me who didnt finish because I found that the game was cliche, and boring. Streamlinging would only make it worse. Then you have folks like my best friend who didnt finish KOTOR because he didnt like stat based combat and didnt know where to go.

Heh, I didn't quit, but I started to get really bored around the halfway mark, and my next two playthroughs were almost unbearable.  I was so bored with Awakenings that it took me three months of on/off playing to get through a twenty hour expansion.

The changes are not BAD. I honest do not see what these people are
up and on against... All I see are a bunch of rose-colored glasses
wearing geeks that are are afraid of change.

To me, the biggest flaw is the camera and something I'll not rehash about Nightmare.  Other than that, I don't have anything to complain about...yet.  

For one thing, the way they setup your companions to have their own unique specializations raises replay value quite a bit from just that aspect.  Even if it's gimmicky, it's enough incentive to play the game again instead of playing exactly what you already just played but with different text choices.   If the game is long enough to seem satisfying, yet "trim" enough that it doesn't needlessly drag on with filler for the sake of "content", even more reason to replay it.

Modern RPGs are far superior.

Yeah, clearly you haven't played Oblivion, Risen, Gothic 4 or Two Worlds 2.  Those are prime examples of the "modern RPG" and everything wrong with them.  I had much more fun playing the Draqon Quest games on the DS than any of those.

Modifié par Graunt, 05 mars 2011 - 05:01 .

[Therefore_I_Am]

I understand where you are all coming from, but from a standpoint I believe Bioware can do things other companies can't. They have the resources and patience. I have complete faith that their games aren't going to turn into a butchered Final Fantasy or Halo franchise. The DA and ME games will be ever-morphing and ever changing, and it's going to be geared to the mainstream not the niche but the STORY-TELLING and memorable characters will still be there.
Sometimes an old-timer has to put down his frank sinatra and start listening to some modern music.

Medhia Nox wrote...

What was so amazing about Balder's Gate - I don't even remember the storyline anymore. Just NPCs who had memorable one liners like: "Go for the eyes Bo! Go for the eyes!" "Eh'o it's me, Imoen." And "Greetings mercenaries, it's me, Silkie!!" That hardly makes a world shattering stellar RPG to me.

Of course Jon Irenicus was a well written villain, but I don't recall the story being anything more than tradition D&D/fantasy fare.

It's was completely linear if I recall. Character building is a small part of an RPG to me. Min/maxing my stats is not part of an RPG at all to me. Itemization, while necessary, again is not a significant part of an RPG for me.

Modern RPGs allow me to manipulate the gaming world (again, NWN Persistant worlds were superior to all). I can blow up towns with nukes - I can become a slaver, and bring in wasteland citizens for money - I can kill children possessed by demons - a lot of dialogue and energy are spent fleshing out my NPC allies.

Modern RPGs are far superior.

This.

[Graunt]

Therefore_I_Am wrote...
I understand where you are all coming from, but from a standpoint I believe Bioware can do things other companies can't. They have the resources and patience. I have complete faith that their games aren't going to turn into a butchered Final Fantasy or Halo franchise. The DA and ME games will be ever-morphing and ever changing, and it's going to be geared to the mainstream not the niche but the STORY-TELLING and memorable characters will still be there.
Sometimes an old-timer has to put down his frank sinatra and start listening to some modern music.

It's not quite an apples to apples comparison, but I think CD Projekt would contradict this theory.  I also believe that The Witcher 2 will offer a superior gameplay experience, and it will have an excellent story.  Whether or not it will be able to match the storytelling of DA2 is another matter.  Plus, I also like party based RPGs slightly more than mostly single character action RPGs.

I also have very high hopes for Deus Ex: Human Revolution.  It will be Mass Effect 2.5 enough until Mass Effect 3.

Modifié par Graunt, 05 mars 2011 - 05:06 .

[termokanden]

Graunt wrote...

Yeah, clearly you haven't played Oblivion, Risen, Gothic 4 or Two Worlds 2.  Those are prime examples of the "modern RPG" and everything wrong with them.  I had much more fun playing the Draqon Quest games on the DS than any of those.

Agreed. Oblivion was a clear step back from Morrowind, and Gothic 3 and 4 were way worse than Gothic 2. I honestly never tried the older TES games so I won't comment on that.

Newer is not always better.

Modifié par termokanden, 05 mars 2011 - 05:06 .

[AkiKishi]

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

I understand where you are all coming from, but from a standpoint I believe Bioware can do things other companies can't. They have the resources and patience. I have complete faith that their games aren't going to turn into a butchered Final Fantasy or Halo franchise. The DA and ME games will be ever-morphing and ever changing, and it's going to be geared to the mainstream not the niche but the STORY-TELLING and memorable characters will still be there.
Sometimes an old-timer has to put down his frank sinatra and start listening to some modern music.

Dragon Age is getting closer ouside of the combat mechanics and ME2 is almost there.

[Graunt]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

I understand where you are all coming from, but from a standpoint I believe Bioware can do things other companies can't. They have the resources and patience. I have complete faith that their games aren't going to turn into a butchered Final Fantasy or Halo franchise. The DA and ME games will be ever-morphing and ever changing, and it's going to be geared to the mainstream not the niche but the STORY-TELLING and memorable characters will still be there.
Sometimes an old-timer has to put down his frank sinatra and start listening to some modern music.

Dragon Age is getting closer ouside of the combat mechanics and ME2 is almost there.

I'll be perfectly happy if the combat in ME3 does not change much over ME2 as long as enough abilities are tweaked/added to not make it seem like I'm playing literally the same game with a different coat of paint.  One thing that will annoy me to no end though is if they remove even more of the RPG elements and make it even more TPS skewed -- and it's closer to Gears of War than Halo anyway.

If they ever announce that ME3 has multiplayer, you can kiss the franchise goodbye.  Unless they actually manage to make it something cool like 2-3 player team co-op that's pretty much identical to what you would be doing alone anyway, except you wouldn't have to worry about the typically horrible Bioware AI squadmates.

Modifié par Graunt, 05 mars 2011 - 05:14 .

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Decline I say improve I played DAO soo many time and i always found it tedious when your not doing a special move I always wanted it too pick up the pace faster combat and a more mass effect dialogue was what I wanted i loved the first one but the new one just feels right and it's all that I wanted too be, some people just can't handle change....

[DragonRageGT]

termokanden wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Yeah, clearly you haven't played Oblivion, Risen, Gothic 4 or Two Worlds 2.  Those are prime examples of the "modern RPG" and everything wrong with them.  I had much more fun playing the Draqon Quest games on the DS than any of those.

Agreed. Oblivion was a clear step back from Morrowind, and Gothic 3 and 4 were way worse than Gothic 2. I honestly never tried the older TES games so I won't comment on that.

Newer is not always better.

True, but take Risen of that list. Risen is an awesome game. It has simply the best 25-30hours / Chapters 1 & 2 of any game ever!  Chapters 3 and 4 are still cool but a bit empty and too linear, like the Piranhas were rushed to finish the game soon and could not fill it as they would like to have done. And seeing all the news being disclosed about Risen 2, that will be fixed. Apparently the new devs learned that a game made with heart will earn a lot more money in the end, by creating a huge and ever expanding fan base than any easy and fast best seller that cannot keep it up with poor sequels. Go check what are the best selling PC RPG games in Europe!

Publishers have a tendency to screw up great games, like they did with Gothic 3 and a numberless of EA published titles. Blizzard is lucky that they are their own publishers and Bioware is no longer a true game developer. It is now a division of their publisher which happens to make games but now under the directives set by the shareholders, not by their heart!

Just to set the record straight, Gothic 4 does not deserve such label. Gothic is a Piranha bytes creation that the publisher JoWood retained the rights for a sequel to Gothic 3 after they've pretty much screwed up Gothic 3 by pushing the devs to release a unfinished game. And Gothic 3 with the 900 MB Community patch is an awesome game! But Risen is the real Gothic game. It has all the fans loved about it and perfected!

I'm not afraid of changes and they're welcome when they keep the heart and not the purse as main inspiration! Like the ones made in TW2, who could care less about "the way of the audience"... keep dreaming of it, console players!

[Graunt]

I already knew that Risen was the "real" Gothic 4, but that doesn't change the fact that it wasn't very good and neither was the game called Gothic 4. Maybe Risen 2 will be better, but I'll only worry about it after it's been released and reviewed.  Too many games focus on graphics just to be "modern" and have pretty much no character.  But they have lots of bump mapping and trilinearstory occlusion!

Modifié par Graunt, 05 mars 2011 - 05:44 .

[DragonRageGT]

And honestly, people bashing Origins should really be ashamed. It is a poor justification for a poor design decision on the new title of the series and there is no justification.

Bored with DA:O? Well, I ain't bored with it after 20 playthroughs and over 2,000 hrs and like me, great part of the Origins fan base. At least some 1,300,000 of the 1,400,000 viewers of my vids. Like me, many never repeated an exact playthrough with it and even now I can still find out new stuff to try. When I tried to repeat the exact same character who had sacrificed in the first run, so he could be alive for Awakening, he ended up so much better than the first version.

And like Gothic 1 and 2, Risen, The Witcher, I'll be replaying Origins for a long time, I hope.

[88mphSlayer]

just an idea on compromise for the dialogue wheel with crpg's: http://img607.images...dwheelcrpg.jpg/

place the "wheel" at the left hand side and have all dialogue options on the right and increase the number of options, this would create space for the developer to simply write in exactly what's going to be said and at the same time keep the logos for players who want the visual cue, it wouldn't be too far fetched from say... Planescape Torment which had "truth" and "bluff" beside various dialogue options as well

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 05 mars 2011 - 05:48 .

[AkiKishi]

88mphSlayer wrote...

just an idea on compromise for the dialogue wheel with crpg's: http://img607.images...dwheelcrpg.jpg/

place the "wheel" at the left hand side and have all dialogue options on the right and increase the number of options, this would create space for the developer to simply write in exactly what's going to be said and at the same time keep the logos for players who want the visual cue, it wouldn't be too far fetched from say... Planescape Torment which had "truth" and "bluff" beside various dialogue options as well

That might work although you need a bit more space for investigate. But if they are going to go with pre-gen characters from now on it would be easier to just do away with the paraphrasing and just have you choose the intent of the response. Paraphrasing does not really add anything and people complain about the small text.

Dialogue lines are wasted on a pre-gen unless it's something interesting like PST.

[Graunt]

RageGT wrote...

And honestly, people bashing Origins should really be ashamed. It is a poor justification for a poor design decision on the new title of the series and there is no justification.

Bored with DA:O? Well, I ain't bored with it after 20 playthroughs and over 2,000 hrs and like me, great part of the Origins fan base. At least some 1,300,000 of the 1,400,000 viewers of my vids. Like me, many never repeated an exact playthrough with it and even now I can still find out new stuff to try. When I tried to repeat the exact same character who had sacrificed in the first run, so he could be alive for Awakening, he ended up so much better than the first version.

And like Gothic 1 and 2, Risen, The Witcher, I'll be replaying Origins for a long time, I hope.

You are anything but typical of the "Origins fan base".  Obsessed seems more like it.  You're free to play what you want as many times as you like, but it's silly to assume everyone else has to be as enamored with the game and that they will be playing it still in ten years.  Some people will be playing it in ten years, but it won't be some classic that people are only playing because nothing better came along since.

[Mecha Tengu]

the old old OLD hardcore RPGs were insane

you made one mistake in the beginning of the game and later when locked in a jail cell without the key you were suppose to have retrieved earlier, there was no way to get out, had to reload from the early game save.

[88mphSlayer]

BobSmith101 wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

just an idea on compromise for the dialogue wheel with crpg's: http://img607.images...dwheelcrpg.jpg/

place the "wheel" at the left hand side and have all dialogue options on the right and increase the number of options, this would create space for the developer to simply write in exactly what's going to be said and at the same time keep the logos for players who want the visual cue, it wouldn't be too far fetched from say... Planescape Torment which had "truth" and "bluff" beside various dialogue options as well

That might work although you need a bit more space for investigate. But if they are going to go with pre-gen characters from now on it would be easier to just do away with the paraphrasing and just have you choose the intent of the response. Paraphrasing does not really add anything and people complain about the small text.

Dialogue lines are wasted on a pre-gen unless it's something interesting like PST.

yeah Bioware has a track record of making semi-boring player characters, somebody brought up the idea of playing as the old god (re: Morrigan's baby)... that would've been pretty darn cool i think, as much as i stay semi-optimistic for DA2 as it is now - that would've been a much cooler DA2

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 05 mars 2011 - 06:00 .

[Ahglock]

Derrp wrote...

I enjoy the combat way more in ME2 than the first one

But I had 0 problem with DA:O's combat ... It reminded me a lot of NW nights and Baldur's Gate

The times are a changing though ... the old school is pretty much dead .. gaming got a lot bigger .. catering to less popular game types = less money

Making a game that has a cult following and is praised up and down by hardcore rpg players is way less profitable than a shorter, shallower, more mainstream game ( DA 2 ) .. so we can be really bitter and knock everything new or we can accept this is how things are just going to be from now on and we can really celebrate that occasional gem that reminds you more of the old rpg's

I think the issue of combat from lets say ME1 to ME2 is the targetting circle or crosshairs.  If you put in crosshairs and you line up a great headshot and the game says you rolled a 1 so you miss it irritates people.  If they had gone sci-fi rpg but had you click on targets like lets say grand theft auto and it used a die roll to hit I think people would have been fine with it. 

Also on the more less profitable side, DA sold really well.  I think better than ME so I am not sure why they would want to ME the game.