1216 réponses à ce sujet

[moilami]

juho123 wrote...

Did he just judge the demo being less open world and having no improvement on graphics on the basis of playing demo that didn't even have the higher graphics settings enabled?  Seriously, internet brings out the worst of people.

Err..no. He appears to have either very good brains or long time experience of world of gaming.

It is like you drinking beer first time in your life when compared to someone who has been beer enthusiastic last 10 years. 

[Graunt]

jsteinhauer wrote...
But those who think the action-RPG is an evolution of the cRPG or who think it's better, because it's more modern are idiots and have probably never played a real RPG or don't have the attention span to play them. Those are the ones who are interested in cutscenes where game characters dry hump.

Krusty the Clown, you need to turn that frown upside down and realize not everyone cares that you can't keep up.

You don't button mash in WoW if that's what you are saying. You
autoattack while waiting for the cooldowns to come up for your specials.
Honestly unless you are fighting "trash" trying to take on as many
things in WoW as you do in DA2 will get you a swift trip to the GY.

Thanks, I know exactly how WOW plays which is why I brought it up.  And you do as much "button mashing" in that game as you did in the demo.  Think about that for a second or two.

Modifié par Graunt, 07 mars 2011 - 01:54 .

[moilami]

Graunt wrote...

jsteinhauer wrote...
But those who think the action-RPG is an evolution of the cRPG or who think it's better, because it's more modern are idiots and have probably never played a real RPG or don't have the attention span to play them. Those are the ones who are interested in cutscenes where game characters dry hump.

Krusty the Clown, you need to turn that frown upside down and realize not everyone cares that you can't keep up.

Hell yeah! Dry Humping and arcade action is the s*t. 

[SaviorPilate]

moilami wrote...

Ah, well mate ye know the devs has to grow up at some point and say "lets make some big money now while we can". Or lets say they are still idealistical and pragmatical and just chose to do games to make the largest amount of people happy. You don't have to look at the bell curve to see how the games will be by then though.

I think the fact that you think they "grew up" shows the mentality of consumers nowadays.  That's a ridiculous notion, and shows you don't know what actually happened to the game industry.

I will never give any money to large studios anymore because of this mentality.  They don't deserve it, when all they do is debase the medium by making prices skyrocket and turn an art form into a soulless industry.

[AkiKishi]

Curlain wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Aidunno wrote...
Many of the "core audience" don't feel as though they have sold out. Even though some do, they will still buy the game and play it through to completion. You could also argue that if DA2 was a clone of DAO but with a new story it wouldn't sell as well as many people who didn't complete the first game wouldn't buy the sequel. I do think that they will gain a wider audience but that is also a personal opinion.

Finally, even if the game doesn't sell as well the return of investment may be higher with less development costs.

Bingo.

This is even more the case when you factor in the fact that in the time it would have taken to produce a sequel of the size of Origns (assuming that it would take a similar 4-5 years) BioWare can have produced not only DA2 but also DA3, so it will ultimately, though sadly, be a more profitable model for them to follow.

Once you have a working engine and a rules set in place it's usually a much shorter turn around. Around 2-2 1/2 years most likely.

They may be trying to squeeze as much out of this console cycle as they can because it's going to be winding down in the next few years. It's whether they bounce back , or just continue with "good enough" though.

[Graunt]

SaviorPilate wrote...
I will never give any money to large studios anymore because of this mentality.  They don't deserve it, when all they do is debase the medium by making prices skyrocket and turn an art form into a soulless industry.

I take it you don't go to the movies anymore then either.

[Dexter111]

Dno if this was posted before, but I found this video and decided it may be relevant for this discussion and contains high amounts of truths xD

Modifié par Dexter111, 07 mars 2011 - 02:00 .

[moilami]

SaviorPilate wrote...

moilami wrote...

Ah, well mate ye know the devs has to grow up at some point and say "lets make some big money now while we can". Or lets say they are still idealistical and pragmatical and just chose to do games to make the largest amount of people happy. You don't have to look at the bell curve to see how the games will be by then though.

I think the fact that you think they "grew up" shows the mentality of consumers nowadays.  That's a ridiculous notion, and shows you don't know what actually happened to the game industry.

I will never give any money to large studios anymore because of this mentality.  They don't deserve it, when all they do is debase the medium by making prices skyrocket and turn an art form into a soulless industry.

The words were based on assumption that BG was made in a way the devs wanted an RPG to be for them to play it. Now they want to make a games what they think masses want to play. That is they want to be sure to get the highest salary of the work done. If that sounds ridiculous or if it is not true - I could not care less.

I am not interested of your opinions on "what actually happened to the game industry" so I don't ask you tell me - especially when this is the wrong thread for it.

[AkiKishi]

Graunt wrote...
Thanks, I know exactly how WOW plays which is why I brought it up.  And you do as much "button mashing" in that game as you did in the demo.  Think about that for a second or two.

Well my auto attack in WoW is keyed to F , I press it once and then everything is automated, hence the term autoattack.
In DA2 each time you attack you press X, Let's say I use my specials and they have a 10 second cool down. Each press of X takes 1 second, that means pressing X 10 times before the next cool down. If I don't do that, then I'm not fighting at peak efficiency. This may or may not be addressed in the full game.

If you think thats how WoW works we must have different versions.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 07 mars 2011 - 02:03 .

[Graunt]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Graunt wrote...
Thanks, I know exactly how WOW plays which is why I brought it up.  And you do as much "button mashing" in that game as you did in the demo.  Think about that for a second or two.

Well my auto attack in WoW is keyed to F , I press it once and then everything is automated, hence the term autoattack.
In DA2 each time you attack you press X, Let's say I use my specials and they have a 10 second cool down. Each press of X takes 1 second, that means pressing X 10 times before the next cool down. If I don't do that, then I'm not fighting at peak efficiency. This may or may not be addressed in the full game.

If you think thats how WoW works we must have different versions.

I can't believe that some people are still complaining about this.  It plays nothing at all like that on the PC, and the console has a toggle for auto attack that was not available in the demo.

So sure, if I was forced to play the game like that, I'd be pretty pissed too and not buy it.  It's not supposed to play that way on the consoles either and you have a choice.  It definitely doesn't play like that on the PC, which is what I'm getting it for anyway.

Modifié par Graunt, 07 mars 2011 - 02:09 .

[Loc'n'lol]

I'll just leave this here

[Yrkoon]

SaviorPilate wrote...

moilami wrote...

Ah, well mate ye know the devs has to grow up at some point and say "lets make some big money now while we can". Or lets say they are still idealistical and pragmatical and just chose to do games to make the largest amount of people happy. You don't have to look at the bell curve to see how the games will be by then though.

I think the fact that you think they "grew up" shows the mentality of consumers nowadays.  That's a ridiculous notion, and shows you don't know what actually happened to the game industry.

I will never give any money to large studios anymore because of this mentality.  They don't deserve it, when all they do is debase the medium by making prices skyrocket and turn an art form into a soulless industry.

Well, I do agree that overall,  the industry today is more  "soulless" than it is a creator of art, but to say that they've caused prices to skyrocket is nonsense.

  Computer games are probably the only thing in the entire world, other than maybe... eggs and sugar...that have NOT seen a significant increase in price over the last 15-20 years.  New  Releases today cost between 50-60 bucks.  New releases in 1996  cost between.... 50-60 bucks.

This stability is mindbogglingly remarkable.    We're  looking at something that has been   Completely oblivious  to inflation and cost of living increases.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 07 mars 2011 - 02:13 .

[moilami]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Graunt wrote...
Thanks, I know exactly how WOW plays which is why I brought it up.  And you do as much "button mashing" in that game as you did in the demo.  Think about that for a second or two.

Well my auto attack in WoW is keyed to F , I press it once and then everything is automated, hence the term autoattack.
In DA2 each time you attack you press X, Let's say I use my specials and they have a 10 second cool down. Each press of X takes 1 second, that means pressing X 10 times before the next cool down. If I don't do that, then I'm not fighting at peak efficiency. This may or may not be addressed in the full game.

If you think thats how WoW works we must have different versions.

I have heard there is an option to turn auto-attack on in console versions.

I would actually like once a month of multiplayer DA2 on console with auto attack disabled. Reminds me of funny multiplayer games in C64 like Summer Games where you had to vibrate the joystick frantically to win long jump or 100m sprint. The s*t back then to outplay was that.

[Veracruz]

About "Modern Life: The Decline of the classic Life.", Plato said: "Evolution, I'm dissapoint."

[didymos1120]

BobSmith101 wrote...
In DA2 the most efficient way to fight is to mash X between cooldowns. While you could mash X in DA there was no purpose to it. Unlike in DA2 where button mashing is rewarded.
It remains to be seen whether or not the "autoattack" will change that, but thats how it works in the demo.

How would that not change with autoattack being enabled?  Which, BTW, only held true for the console demo versions. It was enabled by default on the PC, and apart from a bug that very, very slightly sped up normal attacks only (as far as I know) for mages if you kept pressing 'R', it worked pretty much like in DA:O: click a dude and you start whacking him, and continue to do so until one of you dies or you click another dude.   The only thing that's different is that (in the demo at least. No idea if it's in the full game) if Hawke is attacked he/she won't initiate autoattack, um, automatically.  But since standing around waiting for someone to run over and hit you is not something you normally want to spend much time doing anyway, the practical difference from DA:O in terms of "number of clicks/presses" is next to nothing.

ETA: Oh, and by the way the automatic auto-attack feature in DA:O can be quite an annoyance.  Many a time has my stealthed rogue decided to just start whacking away due to the bug where an enemy will startup their attack animations despite the fact that they're not supposed to know you're there.  I say "animations", because it never seems to do damage, but it can trigger your attack, which of course drops stealth and screws up whatever nefariousness you were trying to get up to in the first place.  And sometimes, your stealthed rogue will just seem to decide to start attacking all on their own when their personal space gets too crowded. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 07 mars 2011 - 02:27 .

[Graunt]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

I'll just leave this here

That link is literally the best post in this entire thread.  The specs themselves are awesome too.

Modifié par Graunt, 07 mars 2011 - 02:16 .

[didymos1120]

Graunt wrote...

SaviorPilate wrote...
I will never give any money to large studios anymore because of this mentality.  They don't deserve it, when all they do is debase the medium by making prices skyrocket and turn an art form into a soulless industry.

I take it you don't go to the movies anymore then either.

Or read novels.  Or partake in many other entertainment mediums.  Probably shouldn't use the interwebs anymore either, as it's well known how impure and debased they've become. 

[Siven80]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

I'll just leave this here

lol nice

[moilami]

Yrkoon wrote...

SaviorPilate wrote...

moilami wrote...

Ah, well mate ye know the devs has to grow up at some point and say "lets make some big money now while we can". Or lets say they are still idealistical and pragmatical and just chose to do games to make the largest amount of people happy. You don't have to look at the bell curve to see how the games will be by then though.

I think the fact that you think they "grew up" shows the mentality of consumers nowadays.  That's a ridiculous notion, and shows you don't know what actually happened to the game industry.

I will never give any money to large studios anymore because of this mentality.  They don't deserve it, when all they do is debase the medium by making prices skyrocket and turn an art form into a soulless industry.

Well, I do agree that overall,  the industry today is more  "soulless" than it is a creator of art, but to say that they've caused prices to skyrocket is nonsense.

  Computer/Console games are probably the only thing in the entire world, other than maybe... eggs...that have NOT seen a significant increase in price over the last 15-20 years.  New  Releases today cost between 50-60 bucks.  New releases in 1996  cost between.... 50-60 bucks.

This stability is mindbogglingly remarkable.    We're  looking at something that has been   Completely oblivious  to inflation and cost of living increases.

In Finland in '80 new games for Amiga were about 220mk average. That is about 30€. What it is in $ you do the math. I paid of DA2 about 30€. So no change here, but I got DA2 cheap. It is supposed to cost around 50€.

Games for PC costed about 280mk in '80. That is almost 50 euro.

This how the price has not gone up even though dev costs has gone up is maybe explainable with the fact that volume of sales has gone up and economists has calculated when sales * price_of_single_unit gives most cash.

Of those soul things in games I don't put opinions. I think there is plenty of love put on Izzy and Merril? Or could they be just mathematically calculated and designed to fulfill various desires and expectations? Even if they would be, there could had still been love put on them.

I bet it has always been so that some tried to make money desperately and some tried to make something else. And it is still so.

Anyway I am bored of this discussion and I have other things to do. 

[AkiKishi]

moilami wrote...

I have heard there is an option to turn auto-attack on in console versions.

I would actually like once a month of multiplayer DA2 on console with auto attack disabled. Reminds me of funny multiplayer games in C64 like Summer Games where you had to vibrate the joystick frantically to win long jump or 100m sprint. The s*t back then to outplay was that.

That's what was said, but it seems to be missing according to some pople who played the game early. I'm in the UK anyway and I never pre-ordered so I'll know beforehand if it's still worth picking up the rental or not.

I think they had some sort of deal with joystick manufacturers.

Most hellish in my memory, the torture sequence in MGS. There were all sorts of tips like use a pen top , or cover your pad with a cloth.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 07 mars 2011 - 02:27 .

[Pcrews]

If every game Bioware made followed the "CRPG" formula, the genre would be stale and people would **** about that too. You just can't please em all.

[JohnPazur]

Here is the deal people, Things Change, if they didn't I would quickly get bored with them. I play shooters and RPGs. I liked Fallout series from the first till this newer one, New Vegas. I do not like the Elder Scroll games, Mainly because of the leveling and skill up mechanic, Not my thing. For those who say that Oblivion was not a button masher are wrong in my OPINION (its my opinion not fact so take it with a grain of salt) for the reason that you had to jump alot to raise jumping, attack alot to raise attacking, out side of completing quests to level up your skill in an area.

That was pointless to me. Now on to Mass Effect, loved it except for the inventory. Same thing with Dragon Age...

Now with Mass Effect 2 they made it easier to level up, and like in real combat i have to move to get into cover and use my abilities wisely. Gone is the immunity spam - run down the hallway with carnage and assualt rifle overload for the win. It was a little more of a challenge for me.

Now DA2 gone is having to worry about which armor should i toss for the new knife. I can still customize the stats of the companions armor, which is more important then looks really. But i am not having to worry about how much space for loot I am going to need before I charge off into the deep roads.

I know some people will disagree with me and thats fine. As for the article I am not worked up about it because that is their opinion, and not mine. They can have theirs. Where I have an issue with things is when people start crying foul or that the sky is falling over and over and over. With that said, hope people do give DA2 a shot. Also take care and remember to drive safely.

[abadomen]

How is the action RPG the evolution of CRPGs when Action RPGS were around at the same time?

[didymos1120]

abadomen wrote...

How is the action RPG the evolution of CRPGs when Action RPGS were around at the same time?

That was when the "speciation" event took place? We'd need to do some detailed phylogenetic analysis of the entire RPG genre to be sure though.