1216 réponses à ce sujet

[Alex109222]

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

Alex109222 wrote...

If this Bioware effect rubs of onto any other company then that is the day I boycot RPG's and games in general. 
this is a decline, a huge decline, I can't fathom how much I despise Bioware right now, this game that they are farting out is not worth my money, but sadly this Bidorne fanbase will continue to support this calling it an "evoloution" and that will rub of on other companies.  I can hardly call this anything other than some wanabe JRPG with some day one DLC slapped on top of it.



"if I were going to work on a game adopting a set-in-stone protagonist I’d rather work on something lighter, like a shooter. "

"Another part is lining up paid DLC's even before the general public has had a chance to purchase their game. Although that basically makes me hate EA and it wouldn't have prevented me from getting the game if it would be 'classic' enough."

-brent knowles lead designer of Dragon age: Origins.

TERRIBLE! TERRIBLE! BIOWARE! 
and heres to you all the Biodrones, the worse fan-base I have ever seen. 

A JRPG? Dragon Age? Wooahhh buddy. I'll have whatever your having... must be some good ****.

I don't see any big boobed women hopping around with big eyes and scrawny little men lifting swords three times their size...

Well it's got big boobed women leaping around, and a [crap] ton of cutscenes, a set i stone protagonist, thats why I said a "wannabe" JRPG. 

Modifié par JohnEpler, 07 mars 2011 - 06:19 .

[John Epler]

Hey, there's a swear filter for a reason.

Trying to find clever ways around it is not acceptable.

[AkiKishi]

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

A JRPG? Dragon Age? Wooahhh buddy. I'll have whatever your having... must be some good ****.

I don't see any big boobed women hopping around with big eyes and scrawny little men lifting swords three times their size...

Aside from the big eyes, which is hardly universal. It pretty much described Dragon Age2.

Boobs - check
Leaping around with overly large swords - check.

[Rockpopple]

JohnEpler wrote...

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

Alex109222 wrote...

If this Bioware effect rubs of onto any other company then that is the day I boycot RPG's and games in general. 
this is a decline, a huge decline, I can't fathom how much I despise Bioware right now, this game that they are farting out is not worth my money, but sadly this Bidorne fanbase will continue to support this calling it an "evoloution" and that will rub of on other companies.  I can hardly call this anything other than some wanabe JRPG with some day one DLC slapped on top of it.



"if I were going to work on a game adopting a set-in-stone protagonist I’d rather work on something lighter, like a shooter. "

"Another part is lining up paid DLC's even before the general public has had a chance to purchase their game. Although that basically makes me hate EA and it wouldn't have prevented me from getting the game if it would be 'classic' enough."

-brent knowles lead designer of Dragon age: Origins.

TERRIBLE! TERRIBLE! BIOWARE! 
and heres to you all the Biodrones, the worse fan-base I have ever seen. 

A JRPG? Dragon Age? Wooahhh buddy. I'll have whatever your having... must be some good ****.

I don't see any big boobed women hopping around with big eyes and scrawny little men lifting swords three times their size...

Well it's got big boobed women leaping around, and a [crap] ton of cutscenes, a set i stone protagonist, thats why I said a "wannabe" JRPG. 

Spoken like someone who's never, ever played a JRPG before. 

[Rockpopple]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

A JRPG? Dragon Age? Wooahhh buddy. I'll have whatever your having... must be some good ****.

I don't see any big boobed women hopping around with big eyes and scrawny little men lifting swords three times their size...

Aside from the big eyes, which is hardly universal. It pretty much described Dragon Age2.

Boobs - check
Leaping around with overly large swords - check.

Then I suppose DA:O was a JRPG too.

This is clownish,

[Alex109222]

Check yourself before you wreck yourself Bioware

[spam link removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 07 mars 2011 - 06:28 .

[AkiKishi]

Rockpopple wrote...

Then I suppose DA:O was a JRPG too.

This is clownish,

No pre-gen character in DA.

[Alex109222]

Rockpopple wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

Alex109222 wrote...

If this Bioware effect rubs of onto any other company then that is the day I boycot RPG's and games in general. 
this is a decline, a huge decline, I can't fathom how much I despise Bioware right now, this game that they are farting out is not worth my money, but sadly this Bidorne fanbase will continue to support this calling it an "evoloution" and that will rub of on other companies.  I can hardly call this anything other than some wanabe JRPG with some day one DLC slapped on top of it.



"if I were going to work on a game adopting a set-in-stone protagonist I’d rather work on something lighter, like a shooter. "

"Another part is lining up paid DLC's even before the general public has had a chance to purchase their game. Although that basically makes me hate EA and it wouldn't have prevented me from getting the game if it would be 'classic' enough."

-brent knowles lead designer of Dragon age: Origins.

TERRIBLE! TERRIBLE! BIOWARE! 
and heres to you all the Biodrones, the worse fan-base I have ever seen. 

A JRPG? Dragon Age? Wooahhh buddy. I'll have whatever your having... must be some good ****.

I don't see any big boobed women hopping around with big eyes and scrawny little men lifting swords three times their size...

Well it's got big boobed women leaping around, and a [crap] ton of cutscenes, a set i stone protagonist, thats why I said a "wannabe" JRPG. 

Spoken like someone who's never, ever played a JRPG before. 

They are adding all of these features that are reducing the RPG elements of the game and cleverly trying to cover up their western JRPG.
And I stopped playing JRPG's when I was 13. So forgive me if I am not up with the times.

[Therefore_I_Am]

JohnEpler wrote...

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

Alex109222 wrote...

If this Bioware effect rubs of onto any other company then that is the day I boycot RPG's and games in general. 
this is a decline, a huge decline, I can't fathom how much I despise Bioware right now, this game that they are farting out is not worth my money, but sadly this Bidorne fanbase will continue to support this calling it an "evoloution" and that will rub of on other companies.  I can hardly call this anything other than some wanabe JRPG with some day one DLC slapped on top of it.



"if I were going to work on a game adopting a set-in-stone protagonist I’d rather work on something lighter, like a shooter. "

"Another part is lining up paid DLC's even before the general public has had a chance to purchase their game. Although that basically makes me hate EA and it wouldn't have prevented me from getting the game if it would be 'classic' enough."

-brent knowles lead designer of Dragon age: Origins.

TERRIBLE! TERRIBLE! BIOWARE! 
and heres to you all the Biodrones, the worse fan-base I have ever seen. 

A JRPG? Dragon Age? Wooahhh buddy. I'll have whatever your having... must be some good ****.

I don't see any big boobed women hopping around with big eyes and scrawny little men lifting swords three times their size...

Well it's got big boobed women leaping around, and a [crap] ton of cutscenes, a set i stone protagonist, thats why I said a "wannabe" JRPG. 

"big boobed women with big eyes" include overly exaggerated cup sizes, scantily clad 100% of the time, and acting feminine while beating up diesel guys. Dragon Age doesn't have that... Final Fantasy on other hand...

As for the other reasons... I wouldn't call it a wannabe jrpg soley based on that.

Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 07 mars 2011 - 06:29 .

[Rockpopple]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

Then I suppose DA:O was a JRPG too.

This is clownish,

No pre-gen character in DA.

You didn't check pre-gen character. You checked big boobs and big sword. You can go back to edit that if you want.

If a pre-gen character = a jrpg, then just about 90% of ALL games EVER MADE are jrpgs.

Also, is DA2 a JRPG when you play a 2-handed warrior, but not when you choose a Rogue Archer?

Again: clownish.

[Removed extra line]

Modifié par Rockpopple, 07 mars 2011 - 06:33 .

[AkiKishi]

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

"big boobed women with big eyes" include overly exaggerated cup sizes, scantily clad 100% of the time, and acting feminine while beating up diesel guys. Dragon Age doesn't have that... Final Fantasy on other hand...

As for the other reasons... I wouldn't call it a wannabe jrpg soley based on that.

Really which one ?

[Rockpopple]

Alex109222 wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

Alex109222 wrote...

If this Bioware effect rubs of onto any other company then that is the day I boycot RPG's and games in general. 
this is a decline, a huge decline, I can't fathom how much I despise Bioware right now, this game that they are farting out is not worth my money, but sadly this Bidorne fanbase will continue to support this calling it an "evoloution" and that will rub of on other companies.  I can hardly call this anything other than some wanabe JRPG with some day one DLC slapped on top of it.



"if I were going to work on a game adopting a set-in-stone protagonist I’d rather work on something lighter, like a shooter. "

"Another part is lining up paid DLC's even before the general public has had a chance to purchase their game. Although that basically makes me hate EA and it wouldn't have prevented me from getting the game if it would be 'classic' enough."

-brent knowles lead designer of Dragon age: Origins.

TERRIBLE! TERRIBLE! BIOWARE! 
and heres to you all the Biodrones, the worse fan-base I have ever seen. 

A JRPG? Dragon Age? Wooahhh buddy. I'll have whatever your having... must be some good ****.

I don't see any big boobed women hopping around with big eyes and scrawny little men lifting swords three times their size...

Well it's got big boobed women leaping around, and a [crap] ton of cutscenes, a set i stone protagonist, thats why I said a "wannabe" JRPG. 

Spoken like someone who's never, ever played a JRPG before. 

They are adding all of these features that are reducing the RPG elements of the game and cleverly trying to cover up their western JRPG.
And I stopped playing JRPG's when I was 13. So forgive me if I am not up with the times.

What features are they adding that are reducing RPG elements?

Don't kid yourself: you've never played a JRPG in your life. That's the only reason you could have for making these clownish arguments: you think they fit, but they don't.

[Stanley Woo]

Let's not turn this into yet another "what is and is not an RPG?" discussion, please.

[SaviorPilate]

I don't know why I bothered to try to put my opinion on a public thread like this.  It just enrages me that the people who drive the games industry forward are the same as its customers on the larger scale -- stupid.  I think it's safe to assume that the majority of you don't care about art being enslaved by corporate greed, because most of your reasons boil down to, "It's simple, it makes more money."  That kind of thinking is reprehensible to me.

Plenty of quality games were made before the driving force was to get rich.  Plenty of games are still made without that as a driving force.  But as long as the way you think doesn't change, the industry never will.  You don't realize that by paying money for products that are made in this way, you're supporting it perpetually.  You don't understand that to change the model for the better (something that nobody cares about, anyway), you have to actually have an impact by refusing to pay for products that are created by ruining smaller companies, by trashing the very idea of what it means to create games as art.  To support EA is to help hold back the industry for all of the people like me who are passionate about real art.

Even if the game is amazing, it still represents part of the death of Bioware.  But nobody cares about those "political" aspects of the industry, they only care if they like games or not, which is why it takes millions of dollars to make games, and why every good studio that makes a name for itself ends up being acquisitioned by a larger company, then dismantled and sold off.

And it's the same reason that idiots with Business degrees end up running game companies.

But, I acknowledge that I've wasted my time writing on here at all.

[AkiKishi]

Rockpopple wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
No pre-gen character in DA.

You didn't check pre-gen character. You checked big boobs and big sword. You can go back to edit that if you want.

If a pre-gen character = a jrpg, then just about 90% of ALL games EVER MADE are jrpgs.

Also, is DA2 a JRPG when you play a 2-handed warrior, but not when you choose a Rogue Archer?

Again: clownish.

Again: clownish.

No ones really going to argue that DA2 does not have a pre-gen are they?

You get archers in JRPGs too you know, it's just the overly large sword thing is a sort of running joke.

So if you have

Pre-gen character
Overly large breasts
Overly large swords

Thats 3 JRPG elements. The more you have, the more people are likely to compare.

[Bonkz]

SaviorPilate wrote...

I don't know why I bothered to try to put my opinion on a public thread like this.  It just enrages me that the people who drive the games industry forward are the same as its customers on the larger scale -- stupid.  I think it's safe to assume that the majority of you don't care about art being enslaved by corporate greed, because most of your reasons boil down to, "It's simple, it makes more money."  That kind of thinking is reprehensible to me.

Plenty of quality games were made before the driving force was to get rich.  Plenty of games are still made without that as a driving force.  But as long as the way you think doesn't change, the industry never will.  You don't realize that by paying money for products that are made in this way, you're supporting it perpetually.  You don't understand that to change the model for the better (something that nobody cares about, anyway), you have to actually have an impact by refusing to pay for products that are created by ruining smaller companies, by trashing the very idea of what it means to create games as art.  To support EA is to help hold back the industry for all of the people like me who are passionate about real art.

Even if the game is amazing, it still represents part of the death of Bioware.  But nobody cares about those "political" aspects of the industry, they only care if they like games or not, which is why it takes millions of dollars to make games, and why every good studio that makes a name for itself ends up being acquisitioned by a larger company, then dismantled and sold off.

And it's the same reason that idiots with Business degrees end up running game companies.

But, I acknowledge that I've wasted my time writing on here at all.

Very well put. I agree with you

[Lord_Darkmoon]

SaviorPilate wrote...

I don't know why I bothered to try to put my opinion on a public thread like this.  It just enrages me that the people who drive the games industry forward are the same as its customers on the larger scale -- stupid.  I think it's safe to assume that the majority of you don't care about art being enslaved by corporate greed, because most of your reasons boil down to, "It's simple, it makes more money."  That kind of thinking is reprehensible to me.

Plenty of quality games were made before the driving force was to get rich.  Plenty of games are still made without that as a driving force.  But as long as the way you think doesn't change, the industry never will.  You don't realize that by paying money for products that are made in this way, you're supporting it perpetually.  You don't understand that to change the model for the better (something that nobody cares about, anyway), you have to actually have an impact by refusing to pay for products that are created by ruining smaller companies, by trashing the very idea of what it means to create games as art.  To support EA is to help hold back the industry for all of the people like me who are passionate about real art.

Even if the game is amazing, it still represents part of the death of Bioware.  But nobody cares about those "political" aspects of the industry, they only care if they like games or not, which is why it takes millions of dollars to make games, and why every good studio that makes a name for itself ends up being acquisitioned by a larger company, then dismantled and sold off.

And it's the same reason that idiots with Business degrees end up running game companies.

But, I acknowledge that I've wasted my time writing on here at all.

Amen, brother.

The decline/degeneration of games, in this case RPGs, is imho a result of companies being run by suits nowadays who do not care about nor know about games. They care about making money. And as long as there are enough people who believe everything the suits say and worship them as gods, games will degenerate even more.

[abadomen]

FedericoV wrote...

abadomen wrote...

How is the action RPG the evolution of CRPGs when Action RPGS were around at the same time?

Because no one want to admit that BG I was allready an action RPG that belonged more to the Diabloesque approach to gameplay than the classic turn based one...

Closer to Diablo?

If BG is not a cRPG...then what is. I'm curious to know what differentiates them.

[Therefore_I_Am]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

"big boobed women with big eyes" include overly exaggerated cup sizes, scantily clad 100% of the time, and acting feminine while beating up diesel guys. Dragon Age doesn't have that... Final Fantasy on other hand...

As for the other reasons... I wouldn't call it a wannabe jrpg soley based on that.

Really which one ?

Or I should say Manga-based jrpgs. Final Fantasy has the scrawny guy who defies mass/volume/gravity.

Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 07 mars 2011 - 06:47 .

[Rockpopple]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
No pre-gen character in DA.

You didn't check pre-gen character. You checked big boobs and big sword. You can go back to edit that if you want.

If a pre-gen character = a jrpg, then just about 90% of ALL games EVER MADE are jrpgs.

Also, is DA2 a JRPG when you play a 2-handed warrior, but not when you choose a Rogue Archer?

Again: clownish.

Again: clownish.

No ones really going to argue that DA2 does not have a pre-gen are they?

You get archers in JRPGs too you know, it's just the overly large sword thing is a sort of running joke.

So if you have

Pre-gen character
Overly large breasts
Overly large swords

Thats 3 JRPG elements. The more you have, the more people are likely to compare.

Again, those elements, aside from the pre-gent character, apply to DA:O too. It's ridiculous to say that because DA2 contains a pre-gen character, and a big sword, and big boobs, it's like a jrpg.

99% of JRPGs don't allow you to shape the game or your world as you mostly see fit. 99% of jrpgs have character architypes that aren't found in western games. 99% of jrpgs really don't allow the gamer to immerse themselves in stats. 99% of jrpgs don't allow you to make friends or enemies with party members. 99% of jrpgs use mostly teenagers or pre-teens as their main character/party members. 99% of jrpgs don't allow you to romance a particular character. 99% of jrpgs drive the story as something you're watching, not something your creating through your decisions.

These aren't BAD. These are what make jrpgs unique and fun. But they're not in DA:O and they're not in DA2.

But you seem intent on making your clownish comparison because for whatever reason you despise this game. Have at it hoss. Go nuts.

Modifié par Rockpopple, 07 mars 2011 - 06:58 .

[Rockpopple]

SaviorPilate wrote...

I don't know why I bothered to try to put my opinion on a public thread like this.  It just enrages me that the people who drive the games industry forward are the same as its customers on the larger scale -- stupid.  I think it's safe to assume that the majority of you don't care about art being enslaved by corporate greed, because most of your reasons boil down to, "It's simple, it makes more money."  That kind of thinking is reprehensible to me.

Plenty of quality games were made before the driving force was to get rich.  Plenty of games are still made without that as a driving force.  But as long as the way you think doesn't change, the industry never will.  You don't realize that by paying money for products that are made in this way, you're supporting it perpetually.  You don't understand that to change the model for the better (something that nobody cares about, anyway), you have to actually have an impact by refusing to pay for products that are created by ruining smaller companies, by trashing the very idea of what it means to create games as art.  To support EA is to help hold back the industry for all of the people like me who are passionate about real art.

Even if the game is amazing, it still represents part of the death of Bioware.  But nobody cares about those "political" aspects of the industry, they only care if they like games or not, which is why it takes millions of dollars to make games, and why every good studio that makes a name for itself ends up being acquisitioned by a larger company, then dismantled and sold off.

And it's the same reason that idiots with Business degrees end up running game companies.

But, I acknowledge that I've wasted my time writing on here at all.

So despite admitting that DAII might be amazing, you're still holding it up as an example as to why games these days suck... despite some of the most fantastic games of our generation being created nowadays?

And if that's your argument, why are you even here? This is a forum about an individual game: Dragon Age II. It's not a forum about the machinations of the overall game industry. You're pissin' in the wrong pond, bud.

Not a surprise, then, for you to be wasting your time here after-all.

[AkiKishi]

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

Or I should say Manga-based jrpgs. Final Fantasy has the scrawny guy who defies mass/volume/gravity.

Anime/manga would be more accurate.

Like Hawke and Carver in DA2 ? 

[AkiKishi]

Rockpopple wrote...

Again, those elements, aside from the pre-gent character, apply to DA:O too. It's ridiculous to say that because DA2 contains a pre-gen character, and a big sword, and big boobs, it's like a jrpg.

99% of JRPGs don't allow you to shape the game or your world as you mostly see fit. 99% of jrpgs have character architypes that aren't found in western games. 99% of jrpgs really don't allow the gamer to immerse themselves in stats. 99% of jrpgs don't allow you to make friends or enemies with party members. 99% of jrpgs don't allow you to romance a particular character. 99% of jrpgs drive the story as something you're watching, not something your creating through your decisions.

These aren't BAD. These are what make jrpgs unique and fun. But they're not in DA:O and they're not in DA2.

But you seem intent on making your clownish comparison because for whatever reason you despise this game. Have at it hoss. Go nuts.

Makes no difference what so ever. A game that does not have a pre-gen character can not be compared to a JRPG for obvious reasons.

You really have not played many JRPGs if you came up with those numbers. You can do most of those things, although not in such an obvious way as you can in a western RPG.

[John Epler]

That's enough of the 'what is a JRPG/WRPG' tangent. Bring it back on-topic.

[didymos1120]

Alex109222 wrote...
"if I were going to work on a game adopting a set-in-stone protagonist I’d rather work on something lighter, like a shooter."

Brent Knowles actually said that.  Well wrote it. And it's also, AGAIN, not what he left Bioware over.  He quit months after he moved off the DA team.

"Another part is lining up paid DLC's even before the general public has had a chance to purchase their game. Although that basically makes me hate EA and it wouldn't have prevented me from getting the game if it would be 'classic' enough."

The only source for that on Google is some RPGCodex post claiming he said that.  It also fails to provide a link to the actual source, only saying it's from the comments of the article discussed herein.  Well, true enough.  Problem is, those are the words of one "Derk Bill" (you'll have to have the site load more comments for that link to work properly), a commenter who apparently doesn't know how to properly separate something he's quoting from his own post (i.e. use the shift key in combination with the apostrophe key). NOT the words of Brent Knowles.  As should have been obvious from the phrase "prevented me from getting the game": those are the words of a game buyer, not a former project lead.

Fact-checking fail.

ETA:  Aaaand now this ought-to-be-dead-obvious misattribution has gone memetic and started popping up in more Google hits, this thread included.  I'm sure Brent Knowles will be so thrilled.

Modifié par didymos1120, 07 mars 2011 - 07:09 .