203 réponses à ce sujet

[Pritos]

lol I didn't know that Rodrigo Ferraz(the guy on 2nd pic) were known outside Brazil.

[SnowHeart1]

SkyWard20 wrote...

Osena109 wrote...

Deified Data wrote...

SnowHeart1 wrote...
*snip*

Yes, my apologies. I haven't kept abreast of the intense exercise and diet regimens of Thedas. One would think a peasant like Hawke wouldn't have the luxury of "watching what he eats".

As Gaider or Laidlaw said in an interview, fantasy settings are set in a romanticized version of the Dark Ages. In reality, the Dark Ages were pretty terrible (e.g., plague, famine, etc.). We're not dealing with that in a game. If you'd like crappy teeth, wasting bodies and plague-blisters all over the body... I suggest you open a history book. It's a game. It is romanticized. Deal.

The original post compared a modern-day, over-developed body-builder with MHawke's model to suggest MHawke was overdeveloped. He's not. The body is fine. If you wanted to compare him to Dark Ages peasants, you should have found an appropriate pic. Deal. (Yeesh, people.)

E: Fixed to be less offensive to body-builders.

Modifié par SnowHeart1, 04 mars 2011 - 11:47 .

[mindbody]

Karsciyin wrote...

mindbody wrote...

Karsciyin wrote...

"Crossfit website"? I don't even know what that is.

Normally I appreciate being corrected - the more you know, and all that, right? But I don't think there is any need to be so caustic about it - it gives your information less value, whether the facts you have provided are genuine or not.

And, oh please, not another person who thinks they have me all categorised because of my vocabulary. I am accused to using 'legalese' (their words, not mine) because of my use of words such as 'functional', 'genuinely', and words I would have thought everyone knew like 'decrepit'.

Ok, if I overreacted, sorry. I'm used to seeing people being manipulated into buying crap over and over again by misinformation... Ab machines and the like.... I've spent what seems like lifetimes correcting the damage that people do to themselves because of bad info.  Many times they are given these misconceptions purposefully, by trainers or commercials or even doctors... I can't describe how much I hate it.  You seem like a reasonable person, though, so I'm sorry for yelling at you.  I sincerely hope, since you have an evident interest in anatomy, exercise, and physiology, that you continue to pursue it through many sources of info, don't trust any one source, remain sceptical, and try to assert only the things of which you are really sure.

You are of course forgiven, and I am actually grateful for the information, since you sound like you know what you're talking about! I'm actually most interested in anatomy and the related fields because they are important for figure drawing and 3D modelling - often, proportions matter very little with a final character (it's usually what makes cartoons, cartoons) - what is most important is muscles placement and what they represent. Knowing them shows through.

Honestly I don't care about building up muscle, and I think women with lots of muscle look seriously eerie anyway. I also detest all those fitness ads and I would never use one of their machines. (Personally I find the muscle-bound look, with all that sharp definition, that they promote incredibly unsettling.)

Anyway, back on topic, I think Hawke looks realtively realisitc here. Although the shadows on the pectorals look a little heavy, since from the front I can see the 'man-bewb' look, but from the side they are revealed to be much smaller than first they would appear.

I think it's great that you have an artistic interest in anatomy.. You know DaVinci used to dissect cadavers for this reason, among others...  Understanding of anatomy is very important to give a realistic proportion to any model, 2d, or 3d, and also for recreating movement in a video game... and I also agree, Hawke's torso is realistic... just idealized.  I'm sure most men wouldn't mind looking like that.

[Sylvius the Mad]

mindbody wrote...

I'm sure most men wouldn't mind looking like that.

I would.  It would make me look like a narcissist.

[mindbody]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I wish Hawke were less buff.  I'm specifically thinking of the arms and shoulders.

Those delts are just silly.

I personally know people who look just like him, and I would be surprised if Hawke wasn't modeled after a real person.  Some people just have delts with big full muscle-bellies. Others will never look like that no matter how big their shoulders get.. Muscle shape is genetically determined.

[mindbody]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

mindbody wrote...

I'm sure most men wouldn't mind looking like that.

I would.  It would make me look like a narcissist.

Being fit would make you look like a narcissist? Go look at a bunch of high school/ college age soccer players. I bet a quarter of them would look like that, and I bet they eat a ton, too.

[SkyWard20]

SnowHeart1 wrote...

SkyWard20 wrote...

Osena109 wrote...

Deified Data wrote...

SnowHeart1 wrote...
*snip*

Yes, my apologies. I haven't kept abreast of the intense exercise and diet regimens of Thedas. One would think a peasant like Hawke wouldn't have the luxury of "watching what he eats".

As Gaider or Laidlaw said in an interview, fantasy settings are set in a romanticized version of the Dark Ages. In reality, the Dark Ages were pretty terrible (e.g., plague, famine, etc.). We're not dealing with that in a game. If you'd like crappy teeth, wasting bodies and plague-blisters all over the body... I suggest you open a history book. It's a game. It is romanticized. Deal.

The original post compared a modern-day, over-developed body-builder with MHawke's model to suggest MHawke was overdeveloped. He's not. The body is fine. If you wanted to compare him to Dark Ages peasants, you should have found an appropriate pic. Deal. (Yeesh, people.)

E: Fixed to be less offensive to body-builders.

why are you quoting me though? ><

[Druss99]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I wish Hawke were less buff.  I'm specifically thinking of the arms and shoulders.

Those delts are just silly.

I agree. I'd much rather have my characters look like they spent time fighting. Not lifting things then oiling themselves up and looking in the mirror.

[Kmead15]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

mindbody wrote...

I'm sure most men wouldn't mind looking like that.

I would. It would make me look like a narcissist.

I suppose I can understand this. I know some women with huge breasts wish they didn't have them because of random idiots assuming they were ****ty because of it. I suppose the same thing must happen to men too on occasion.

[SnowHeart1]

SkyWard20 wrote...
why are you quoting me though? ><

I have no idea. Second glass of wine?   

E: I think it was just to imply a carried conversation, because I did read it through before responding to the OP's response... or the wine.

Modifié par SnowHeart1, 04 mars 2011 - 11:57 .

[Actua]

Wants customization option to add more body hair. Please. It is of the utmost importance.

[tasca1180]

Karsciyin wrote...


EDIT: Typos fixed

Actually looking at the torso shows Bioware have done their homework.

Thick waist - thick waist are indicative of strong CORE muscles. People with wide shoulders and tapered waist are gym rats who build up muscles deliberately - a strong core is indicative of hard work or life long training rather than quick muscle growth.

The pectorals ('pecs') are large because they are responsible for the lifting and movement of the arms. Archers, dual wielders, fencers - all of these lift their armsand perform strong strikes (or in archer's case, draw back resistant bowstrings) so it is natural that pectoral muscles are larger to account for the strain put on them. Large muscles are also indicative of sudden demands for lots of energy, rather than for moderate amounts
over a period of time. No fighting --> massive fights with dragons --> resting back home would create a cycle of high demand-low demand, rather than constant medium demand, so again - built up muscles for quick power rather than smaller, more energy-efficient for endurance. Marathon runners vs sprinters, people.

As for the undefined abs, again - this is a sign of FUNCTIONAL muscle, rather than muscle that is built up for show. Characters with tapered waists and defined abs are NOT super-strong and super-fit, they're indicative of people trying to build muscle quickly - for looks. If you have absolutely no fat on your stomach - ESPECIALLY for males since that is the primary depositing point - then you are gravely ill and should start eating a higher calorie diet. That is extremely unhealthy.

I am pleased with how the male torso looks. Believe me when I say it makes anatomical sense when you think about the different types of abdominal muscles, the pectorals, and how muscles work vs those who enter body-building competitions and those that wrestle elephants. For fun!

....also I would love to know why the hell when I submit comments breaks are inserted in my lines for no reason. It looks damn unprofessional, and every time I try to edit them out they COME BACK.

Thanks for that very informative comment. That's kind of rare in the "OMG, look at that body" threads.

All I can add is - Hawke's body looks like my boyfriend's and all of his muscles are the result of hard physical work, not the gym.

PS: Yes, I'm a lucky woman.

[Felene]

Looking at Hawke, /drooling.

Looking at the...WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN...? KILL IT WITH FIRE!

[mindbody]

Kmead15 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

mindbody wrote...

I'm sure most men wouldn't mind looking like that.

I would. It would make me look like a narcissist.

I suppose I can understand this. I know some women with huge breasts wish they didn't have them because of random idiots assuming they were ****ty because of it. I suppose the same thing must happen to men too on occasion.

But that doesn't make the women with big breasts bad people, as Sylvius was suggesting having delts does to men. Edit: Or at least make them look like bad people.

Modifié par mindbody, 04 mars 2011 - 11:58 .

[Hathur]

SnowHeart1 wrote...

SkyWard20 wrote...

Osena109 wrote...

Deified Data wrote...

SnowHeart1 wrote...
*snip*

Yes, my apologies. I haven't kept abreast of the intense exercise and diet regimens of Thedas. One would think a peasant like Hawke wouldn't have the luxury of "watching what he eats".

As Gaider or Laidlaw said in an interview, fantasy settings are set in a romanticized version of the Dark Ages. In reality, the Dark Ages were pretty terrible (e.g., plague, famine, etc.). We're not dealing with that in a game. If you'd like crappy teeth, wasting bodies and plague-blisters all over the body... I suggest you open a history book. It's a game. It is romanticized. Deal.

The original post compared a modern-day, over-developed body-builder with MHawke's model to suggest MHawke was overdeveloped. He's not. The body is fine. If you wanted to compare him to Dark Ages peasants, you should have found an appropriate pic. Deal. (Yeesh, people.)

E: Fixed to be less offensive to body-builders.

Yep good points.

People also tend to forget that many men were around 5'5 to 5'6 inches tall on average just several centuries ago. The average 5'10 male of a western developed nation would have been a giant to the men of the middle ages in Europe.

It had everything to do with nutrition and disease - people did not and could not develop or grow ideally the way men can today thanks to modern medicine and the abundance of food.

Soldiers of the medieval era were strong.. but they were strong due to a life of severe hardship... they were not muscle toned men who would look like body builders or male models today -- they would have looked very common, far from exceptional... their strength came from the strength of will needed to survive in conditions that NONE of us can suitably fathom (let alone survive for even a few days) and bodies that were used and abused the way a cargo donkey would be by its owner.

If you want to come close to imagining the strength and type of strength they posessed, go to Africa and visit the tribal villages. The men there look sickly, gangly, weak... but they can carry a goddamn 100lbs sack on their back across the goddamn desert for 10 hours straight.... they can do this because they HAVE to do this, they have no modern technology.. they grew up like this, their bodies were subjected to massive physical burdens all their life, giving them strength of mind and hardened structures needed to do these things. They look weak, but they're immensely stronger and hardier than the we in the west today.

Modifié par Hathur, 05 mars 2011 - 12:02 .

[snackrat]

Actua wrote...

Wants customization option to add more body hair. Please. It is of the utmost importance.

If they ever release the toolset, you can almost garentee someone will make texture replacers for that. As a toggle or slider, however... it seems unlikely. Especially since I doubt Hawke will get much oppurtunity (beyond romance scenes) to show off his OH-SO-MANRYNESS chest hair. Unless, I suppose, you intend to strip off all his clothes and make him fight in those... I think.... are they some kind of Long-Johns? They look like Obelix's breeches to me, for some reason.

[Marionetten]

mindbody wrote...

But that doesn't make the women with big breasts bad people, as Sylvius was suggesting having delts does to men. Edit: Or at least make them look like bad people.

To be honest, Ser Hawke does look like a tool much like how Isabela looks like a... well, you know what. I find it really difficult to sympathize with him as a character given that first impression. He's supposed to be some poor farmboy on the run and yet he looks like an idealized underwear model. It's jarring.

[Sylvius the Mad]

mindbody wrote...

Being fit would make you look like a narcissist?

The overdeveloped shoulders and waxed chest would, yes.  And those arms are also too heavy.

DAO's models were better.

mindbody wrote...

But that doesn't make the women with big breasts bad people, as Sylvius was suggesting having delts does to men. Edit: Or at least make them look like bad people.

I didn't claim that narcissists were bad people

And that was a good edit.  I may well be a narcissist, but I don't want to look like one.

[Kmead15]

mindbody wrote...

Kmead15 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I would. It would make me look like a narcissist.

I suppose I can understand this. I know some women with huge breasts wish they didn't have them because of random idiots assuming they were ****ty because of it. I suppose the same thing must happen to men too on
occasion.

But that doesn't make the women with big breasts bad people, as Sylvius was suggesting having delts does to men. Edit: Or at least make them look like bad people.

I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. It could be he was objecting because he believed people would think of him as a narcissist if he had a toned body. If that's the case, it's no different than a girl not wanting  double-Ds because people would judge her for them. However, it could also mean he thought all men who look muscular are narcissists. Luckily, I've already stated what I think of people who assume things like that.

edit: dang typos ruining my day

Modifié par Kmead15, 05 mars 2011 - 12:08 .

[mindbody]

Hathur wrote...

SnowHeart1 wrote...

SkyWard20 wrote...

Osena109 wrote...

Deified Data wrote...

SnowHeart1 wrote...
*snip*

Yes, my apologies. I haven't kept abreast of the intense exercise and diet regimens of Thedas. One would think a peasant like Hawke wouldn't have the luxury of "watching what he eats".

As Gaider or Laidlaw said in an interview, fantasy settings are set in a romanticized version of the Dark Ages. In reality, the Dark Ages were pretty terrible (e.g., plague, famine, etc.). We're not dealing with that in a game. If you'd like crappy teeth, wasting bodies and plague-blisters all over the body... I suggest you open a history book. It's a game. It is romanticized. Deal.

The original post compared a modern-day, over-developed body-builder with MHawke's model to suggest MHawke was overdeveloped. He's not. The body is fine. If you wanted to compare him to Dark Ages peasants, you should have found an appropriate pic. Deal. (Yeesh, people.)

E: Fixed to be less offensive to body-builders.

Yep good points.

People also tend to forget that many men were around 5'5 to 5'6 inches tall on average just several centuries ago. The average 5'10 male of a western developed nation would have been a giant to the men of the middle ages in Europe.

It had everything to do with nutrition and disease - people did not and could not develop or grow ideally the way men can today thanks to modern medicine and the abundance of food.

Soldiers of the medieval era were strong.. but they were strong due to a life of severe hardship... they were not muscle toned men who would look like body builders or male models today -- they would have looked very common, far from exceptional... their strength came from the strength of will needed to survive in conditions that NONE of us can suitably fathom (let alone survive for even a few days) and bodies that were used and abused the way a cargo donkey would be by its owner.

If you want to come close to imagining the strength and type of strength they posessed, go to Africa and visit the tribal villages. The men there look sickly, gangly, weak... but they can carry a goddamn 100lbs sack on their back across the goddamn desert for 10 hours straight.... they can do this because they HAVE to do this, they have no modern technology.. they grew up like this, their bodies were subjected to massive physical burdens all their life, giving them strength of mind and hardened structures needed to do these things. They look weak, but they're immensely stronger and hardier than the we in the west today.

Well the truth is, most medieval men wouldn't look like that because they would be trying to keep as much bodyfat as possible, not the other way around.  Some would probably be naturally skinny, though, or starved. But starved and skinny people are not muscular, as the body catabolizes (breaks down) muscle tissue in times of food scarcity because it takes more calories to maintain it .  In fact, that's why people have so much trouble losing fat and gaining muscle... The body is programmed to carry only as much muscle as it absolutely needs and uses and to store fat to use in those times when food isnt around.  Trying to get it to do the opposite is... never easy.

[Sylvius the Mad]

mindbody wrote...

I personally know people who look just like him, and I would be surprised if Hawke wasn't modeled after a real person.  Some people just have delts with big full muscle-bellies. Others will never look like that no matter how big their shoulders get.. Muscle shape is genetically determined.

Be that as it may, I would rather play characters who didn't look like that.

[mindbody]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

mindbody wrote...

Being fit would make you look like a narcissist?

The overdeveloped shoulders and waxed chest would, yes.  And those arms are also too heavy.

DAO's models were better.

mindbody wrote...

But that doesn't make the women with big breasts bad people, as Sylvius was suggesting having delts does to men. Edit: Or at least make them look like bad people.

I didn't claim that narcissists were bad people

And that was a good edit.  I may well be a narcissist, but I don't want to look like one.

Hehe. Waxed chest -> Yes=narcissist or competitve swimmer. Some people are really just endowed with their shoulder genetics, though, just like with everything else.  And you're right, I don't suppose one has to assume a narcissist is a bad person...
Edit: It's funny... I didn't even notice the waxed chest thing... I guess it's because I'm used to seeing young athletes with no chest hair @ work.

Modifié par mindbody, 05 mars 2011 - 12:19 .

[mindbody]

Marionetten wrote...

mindbody wrote...

But that doesn't make the women with big breasts bad people, as Sylvius was suggesting having delts does to men. Edit: Or at least make them look like bad people.

To be honest, Ser Hawke does look like a tool much like how Isabela looks like a... well, you know what. I find it really difficult to sympathize with him as a character given that first impression. He's supposed to be some poor farmboy on the run and yet he looks like an idealized underwear model. It's jarring.

Oh, I totally understand your point.  The entire game is built on exaggeration. Not really my thing, either.

[contextual_entity]

I like chest hair. I am disapoint.