160 réponses à ce sujet

[flexxdk]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

Rimfrost wrote...

I guess an example of why it's "quite terrible" would be to much to ask for?

Not so much any examples, but a lack of examples would be a better description.

- No information on specs, not even a LIST OF WHAT THEY ARE
- No description of the base skills
- No description of companions
- No description of tactic commands
- A horribly vague paragraph about crafting

Apart from your last point, I like my manuals that way. I want to find out things myself, without having to grab for the manual every dang time.

Tastes differ, I guess. And I can see why you find the quality of the manual terrible.

[Rylor Tormtor]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Wait, are we talking about the boxed manual, or the official strategy guide?

The manual.

In any case, I've never seen a boxed manual that actually helped me with anything.

Really?  I still consult the manuals for games I've had for years.  Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri has a 250 page manual that's filled with valuable data.

I loved that manual.

[Astrolabe]

The last in-depth manual I read was for Civilization V...all the other games, the information was either pretty pointless other than controls or little peculiarities with the gameplay. There were times that I would look in the manual for information on what a particular stat did and the information provided didn't help me at all...

So I've given up on reading manuals past controls. Info is easily accessible on the interwebs anyway.

[azrael_1289]

Abbbe wrote...

Any interesting information from the manual ? for example, specialization skill descriptions ?

Dunno whether this was confirmed or not, but companions can't have specializations.

[Rylor Tormtor]

azrael_1289 wrote...

Abbbe wrote...

Any interesting information from the manual ? for example, specialization skill descriptions ?

Dunno whether this was confirmed or not, but companions can't have specializations.

Kinda. Each companion has its own specialization. So as a warrior, Hawke can be templer, reaver or berserker, but Fenris has a special Fenris specialization, which helps him be more Fenris, and improves his Fenris like abilities.

Of course, none of this is in the manual.

Zing!

[AtreiyaN7]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

However, when talking about the average game where that level of information isn't necessary, I'm fine with the thin manual.

Regardless of whether that level of information is necessary, it's something I think the developers have a responsibility to provide.

I would never buy software for my office without that software being fully documented (even if it's just some online knowledgebase).  I hold software at home to a similar standard.

Poor documentation makes for a poor game.  I love DAO, but until the Detailed Tooltips mod came out I found it almost unplayable.

That doesn't seem to be the case in DA2 based on the gameplay videos. Oh yes, the information in DA:O was pretty bad, but I'm sure you noticed in the demo that the stats and their benefits are explained pretty clearly when you're leveling up. Professional software is not quite the same as a game. In fact, I work with InDesign, and there's not really adequate information (in the form of a physical manual that is). I didn't get a hardcopy manual with either my copy of CS3 or CS4.

You know what's in my CS4 Documentation folder?

• A six-page PDF: InDesign CS4 Read Me (useless and unrelated to most features that I have to use)
• A thirteen-page PDF: Filters Read Me (basically...pretty useless actually as far as work goes)
• A ten-page PDF: Scripting Read Me (kind of useful, but I can't use those features even if I wanted to investigate further since my employer uses CS3 and I have to downsave).

This is an example of a highly complicated program where you do not get a nice, handy manual detailing every possible feature. You get help WITHIN the program - that or you have to go buy your own reference book. I got one for my older copy (CS3), and the reference book that I bought  was...900 pages.

Now that I know my way around InDesign, I certainly didn't need a new reference book/manual - not when CS4 itself usually provides adequate help from the help system within the program. EDIT: And CS4 cost close to $200 - again, there was no physical manual & limited documentation (needless to say, it's highly professional software).

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 05 mars 2011 - 01:25 .

[Atmosfear3]

Pft, you're lucky if you even get 10 pages worth of a manual these days for ANY game on ANY platform. Fancy manuals are a thing of the past, just like in-flight meals on airlines.

[colejossart]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

malu2573 wrote...

The official strategy guides are more helpful IMO

Aren't the strategy guides also filled with spoilers?  Maps and NPC names and the like?

If so, then I never want to look at one.  But if not, I'm ordering one today.

Well, there's two parts of the strategy guide.  There's basically the "nuts and bolts" part, where all of the talent descriptions and everything will be.  There will also be a beastiary (list of the monsters in the game), an item list, important characters, details about party members, etc.

Then there's the walkthrough portion, which in general is spoilery, though the good strategy guides do their best not to spoil anything important.  Prima is about a 50-50 shot depending on who's writing it.  I have no idea about Piggyback.  Anyways, the walkthrough portion has maps and tells you where to go next.  It also contains all the side quests and how to get the epic items.

I usually get the strategy guide and avoid the walkthrough my first (character driven/Normal) playthrough.  Then I use it on my second(completionist/Hard) playthrough.

Modifié par colejossart, 05 mars 2011 - 01:24 .

[Aesieru]

In-flight meals are still on long airplane rides and first class.

[Dr. wonderful]

Hosothemando wrote...

 

Shut up Carver

[Ploppy]

r2dr wrote...
I remember, I think it was the manual for Fallout, that had recipes for nuclear holocaust-themed snacks you could eat as you played.

Indeed it was. Together with the Alpha Centauri manual, it's one of my most precious gaming treasures.

[r2dr]

Ploppy wrote...

r2dr wrote...
I remember, I think it was the manual for Fallout, that had recipes for nuclear holocaust-themed snacks you could eat as you played.

Indeed it was. Together with the Alpha Centauri manual, it's one of my most precious gaming treasures.

What craftmanship went into the manuals back in those days. You could really tell they cared deeply about the game, and wanted you to have the best possible experience playing it.

It's such a shame that age is gone.

[AtreiyaN7]

Ploppy wrote...

r2dr wrote...
I remember, I think it was the manual for Fallout, that had recipes for nuclear holocaust-themed snacks you could eat as you played.

Indeed it was. Together with the Alpha Centauri manual, it's one of my most precious gaming treasures.

Ah, I used to have that - and then my dad lent out my copy of the game and/or tossed my manual. *sigh* That Fallout manual was a keeper.

[Aesieru]

The MechWarrior 3 game came with a 20 or so paged readout with diagrams and colored pictures and information about the mechs and what not.

[kedcoleman]

...People read the manuals? Crazy.

[colejossart]

kedcoleman wrote...

...People read the manuals? Crazy.

I know right?

[Elvoria]

Why would you want a printed manual, Mass Effect games and Origins has all the info you would want in the game itself.

[r2dr]

Elvoria wrote...

Why would you want a printed manual, Mass Effect games and Origins has all the info you would want in the game itself.

I like the feel of a printed manual. You can read it during area loading (Origins would have definitely needed something to read during it's load times). In-game information feels so abstract. It doesn't compare to pages you can feel. And I like the smell of printed paper as well.

[Cyocide]

LOL @ PS3 ME2 Flier

So bloody true. OP must have been around in the glory days of gorgeous NWN Manuals =)

[r2dr]

Cyocide wrote...

LOL @ PS3 ME2 Flier

So bloody true. OP must have been around in the glory days of gorgeous NWN Manuals =)

The NWN manual was one of the last good ones. Though the Baldur's Gate games' manuals were better in my opinion.

[Random70]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

malu2573 wrote...

The official strategy guides are more helpful IMO

Aren't the strategy guides also filled with spoilers?  Maps and NPC names and the like?

If so, then I never want to look at one.  But if not, I'm ordering one today.

Exactly why documentation is so poor these days. Why give something for free when they can charge $20?

[Purgatious]

I haven't see a good manual since WoWs vanilla release. That was ages ago in gaming years though.

[r2dr]

Yes. It's all one big conspiracy with the elders of zion and the illuminati mind-controlling game developers to make bad manuals so that the reptilian aliens can make money from strategy guides.

[StingingVelvet]

Morbo wrote...

*goes to hug his big PC game boxes from the 90s with their delicious non-pdf manuals*

They really are quite wonderful.  I have a large collection of old PC games and the thick manuals and extras put every release in the last 8 years to shame.  I would pay $70 or even more for new release games if they came in boxes like that again with real manuals.

What they should do is have $50 digital version on Steam and the like and then have $70 big box versions with thick manuals and extras that you can order off the publisher's website.

[xThunderblazex]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

Abbbe wrote...

Any interesting information from the manual ? for example, specialization skill descriptions ?

Absolutely none. It tells you what your stats do, what the classes are, your starting stats by class, and then a bunch of useless stuff like how to start combat. 

Nothing about your specializations (except when you can unlock them).

I assume manuals getting worse and worse over the years is a nod to driving business to game guides.

People still buy guides? Sup free gamefaqs.com