409 réponses à ce sujet

[ShootingStars]

I wouldnt mind having the next DA set in Par Vollen 

[Hreterus]

LeaveMeAlone9009 wrote...

Hreterus wrote...

LeaveMeAlone9009 wrote...

lost lupus wrote...

all i see is a social engineer's wet dream

Well, its more philosophical.

Someone meditated in the desert on the failings of society, he saw what was missing in the minds of the people, even if they did not.

Then, the key points within this society

"No one is bound by the Qu."

The way of the Qu is a choice. So it is not a dream, it is a choice. If the followers of the Qu did not want to be apart of the Qu, they wouldn't.

Human soceties can't work like that, because humans are bat **** insane and lack discipline to get it working.

Plus, all of our leaders are corrupt now adays. So yeah

What is so rational or logical about the Qun?

What isn't?

"They have their own mages. The saarebas (from the word bas or thing/object) are considered defective tools-- but the qunari don't waste those, either.[12] The qunari mages are literally kept on leashes, held by an arvaarad (their "handler"). [13]
Should they ever be seen to perform forbidden magic, their tongues get
cut out to prevent a mage who has been possessed by a demon from
communicating and possibly corrupting someone else."

[Hawke123]

The new Qunari look great IMO. Just wished they left the Darkspawn as they were in Origins.

[the_karin]

I was hoping for a trip to Par Vollen. Or at least finding Sten again. ;; I can imagine how long it would take for your PC to travel to these places and back again on foot, but I still hope BioWare opens up the map travel a little more. Orlais too?

[LeaveMeAlone9009]

Hreterus wrote...

LeaveMeAlone9009 wrote...

Hreterus wrote...

LeaveMeAlone9009 wrote...

lost lupus wrote...

all i see is a social engineer's wet dream

Well, its more philosophical.

Someone meditated in the desert on the failings of society, he saw what was missing in the minds of the people, even if they did not.

Then, the key points within this society

"No one is bound by the Qu."

The way of the Qu is a choice. So it is not a dream, it is a choice. If the followers of the Qu did not want to be apart of the Qu, they wouldn't.

Human soceties can't work like that, because humans are bat **** insane and lack discipline to get it working.

Plus, all of our leaders are corrupt now adays. So yeah

What is so rational or logical about the Qun?

What isn't?

"They have their own mages. The saarebas (from the word bas or thing/object) are considered defective tools-- but the qunari don't waste those, either.[12] The qunari mages are literally kept on leashes, held by an arvaarad (their "handler"). [13]
Should they ever be seen to perform forbidden magic, their tongues get
cut out to prevent a mage who has been possessed by a demon from
communicating and possibly corrupting someone else."

Yeah, thats bad, but their society is still better than most.
Not only that, so a dude who can blow up people with his brain has to be collar'd. This guy is so powerful, if he wanted to, he could just go rogue and break free. No one has to follow the Qun if they don't want to. It is just a society that gives everyone purpose, and hold s everyone accountable for their actions without corruption.

Whats so bad about that?
Also, they have harsh penalties against blood magic. So what?

Atleast my mom's head doesnt get chopped off and put on corpses body and then animated to life infront of me so I have to watch her die.

[IronVanguard]

Yeah, I really though they said gold skinned giants somewhere, which made me think they'd have Sten's skin tone.

Still, I do like the redesign. Just wish I could have joined in bringing the Qun to Kirkwall.

[Goblin1405]

nice nice nice

[Dantexr3]

Sten from DA:O says that he born without horns, but normally all qunari have. Maybe Sten is the son of a qunari and a human, or something like that.

[wildfly]

the qun is getting on my nerves. i understand the community above else, like in sparta but there everyone was equal. spartans banish you from the community only if you did something wrong. but the mage... here we have a brainwashed fellow who was told and treated like he was a piece of junk, until he believed it. no doubts, no inner freedom of thought, no hope. they're sitting in your head. that's scary.

[LeaveMeAlone9009]

wildfly wrote...

the qun is getting on my nerves. i understand the community above else, like in sparta but there everyone was equal. spartans banish you from the community only if you did something wrong. but the mage... here we have a brainwashed fellow who was told and treated like he was a piece of junk, until he believed it. no doubts, no inner freedom of thought, no hope. they're sitting in your head. that's scary.

The Qun is incorruptable. The Qun tells everyone what their role is. It is the role of the man with the leash to demand the obedience of the mage. The mage is demanded to obey. There is no middle ground for a reason, their society is built as it is, but I would say their society is actually a real one. A living organism striving forward, one that recognizes all the flaws and chooses to reject those flaws to follow something else.

I'm not saying it doesnt have "bad parts", but it doesnt need to appologise from them.

Once you go against the Qun, you are no longer Quinari. They make it very simple. It has appeal just for this fact. They don't even take away your freedom of choice. Anyone can leave at anytime, sure the Qun demands that you be hunted, but you can go. So feeedom is still there, but structure is never NOT there. No one needs to worry about revolts, because everyone chose to be of the Qun and accept their role.

But then, it does seem contradicting, why have spies at all then? Because it is demanded. If something is not demanded, then it is not done.

So, you dont need to worry about oil tycoons raising gas an extra dollar for no reason, because its not demanded, doing so is going against the Qun. But, maybe you need to worry about being required to fight to the death should giant giraffes invade the water hole. And you have to do it with your bare hands. But atleast everyone understands whats required from them at all times. No half assing it.

[wildfly]

LeaveMeAlone9009 wrote...

wildfly wrote...

the qun is getting on my nerves. i understand the community above else, like in sparta but there everyone was equal. spartans banish you from the community only if you did something wrong. but the mage... here we have a brainwashed fellow who was told and treated like he was a piece of junk, until he believed it. no doubts, no inner freedom of thought, no hope. they're sitting in your head. that's scary.

The Qun is incorruptable. The Qun tells everyone what their role is. It is the role of the man with the leash to demand the obedience of the mage. The mage is demanded to obey.

incorruptable? i undersand, they don't take bribes, but what's about human, or rather qunari stupidity?
they're so full of themselves, never doubt that they do the right decisions. but if that were so and everyone had his job according to his abilities, why there are so many qunari runaways?

There is no middle ground for a reason, their society is built as it is, but I would say their society is actually a real one. A living organism striving forward, one that recognizes all the flaws and chooses to reject those flaws to follow something else.

yep, that's actually nice. but for me, it's a bit static. no development. the qun is absolute, no need to revision it, to make it better. stagnation comes to mind...

I'm not saying it doesnt have "bad parts", but it doesnt need to appologise from them.

i think actually it has. the moving force behid the cruel behavior against the mages is fear. they fear them so they try to terrorize them completely, deny them the human status, same as romans were calling slaves 'talking instuments' thereby justyfing the inhuman treatment. you cannot treat humans that way, but instruments? why not.
same here, and with the full cooporation of the victim.

Anyone can leave at anytime, sure the Qun demands that you be hunted, but you can go.

some freedom to leave

No one needs to worry about revolts, because everyone chose to be of the Qun and accept their role.

no, they didn't chose it. the free choice and ability to think was cut out before it could be developed. like a leg amputation. they didn't even interpret the qun in different ways. they aren't able to do analitical thinkig, only obey 'qun commands' doesn't that scare you?

[Avl521]

Actually, I see the Qun as the utopic ideal of socialism.
And notice how I didn't say Communism.
A society where everyone has a designated role, everyone is equal no matter their job, the body (military), the mind (craftsmen and merchants), and the soul (religion) all strive and work towards the same goal. They're all part of the same entity and they recognize they are all equally important.
Amidst their equal society though, they strive for perfection.
They also breed to create perfection, not as humans do to have a family, even though they feel love, breeding to concieve children seems to be purely to create superior beings that excel at their roles.

Fascinating society, not perfect, sure, but fascinating indeed.

Modifié par Avl521, 13 mars 2011 - 07:46 .

[shastboy]

It's too bad they don't have female Qunari. That would be awesome.

[Avl521]

shastboy wrote...

It's too bad they don't have female Qunari. That would be awesome.

What are you talking about? there ARE female Qunari.
They are the Priests and the ones that handle Administrative tasks.

[Snake321]

I loved the extensive look at the Quinari, and I love the redesign, they look so much more awesome.

As for their society, on one hand it is kind of respected and can be looked up to, as everyone has their place, their idea of individual and self is completely separate to what we know, yet the price which they pay for order, without greed and selfishness, is questionably high. The Quinari are born into a role and bred from from the start to accept that role. They are basically indoctrinated that their choice is to be what they were born to be or to be less than worthless. This eroding of individualism is alien to all present humanity, Thedas and the real world's, moral and ethical foundation as of today. Even in the most communist state this outcome was not envisioned.

I personally think that order of society at their level at the sacrifice of the most base human rights, as with the Sarabaas (Dude that made me weep so much) where such abuse and mistreatment, without compassion and the society accepting it as pure will, not even questioning it... Is too much.

Greed and inequality can be limited without going to such means such as sending people to die, eroding their self worth to such a level that the thought of not being abused, the only option is suicide. Order is not worth that.

But alas maybe I am just a foolish Bas who does not see the Qun.

On a side note, when I had to fight my first "Sten" I freaked out so much, "What the hell?! I am killing Sten in such an unannounced fashion! He didn't even talk to me! What is this!"

I am also sad, that with all the Quinari about, I didn't any as an Ally. I think I might of considered helping the Arishok rule Kirkwall...

[BiowarEA]

This is what the new Qunari look reminds me of:

[Hreterus]

LeaveMeAlone9009 wrote...

wildfly wrote...

the qun is getting on my nerves. i understand the community above else, like in sparta but there everyone was equal. spartans banish you from the community only if you did something wrong. but the mage... here we have a brainwashed fellow who was told and treated like he was a piece of junk, until he believed it. no doubts, no inner freedom of thought, no hope. they're sitting in your head. that's scary.

The Qun is incorruptable. The Qun tells everyone what their role is. It is the role of the man with the leash to demand the obedience of the mage. The mage is demanded to obey. There is no middle ground for a reason, their society is built as it is, but I would say their society is actually a real one. A living organism striving forward, one that recognizes all the flaws and chooses to reject those flaws to follow something else.

I'm not saying it doesnt have "bad parts", but it doesnt need to appologise from them.

Once you go against the Qun, you are no longer Quinari. They make it very simple. It has appeal just for this fact. They don't even take away your freedom of choice. Anyone can leave at anytime, sure the Qun demands that you be hunted, but you can go. So feeedom is still there, but structure is never NOT there. No one needs to worry about revolts, because everyone chose to be of the Qun and accept their role.

But then, it does seem contradicting, why have spies at all then? Because it is demanded. If something is not demanded, then it is not done.

So, you dont need to worry about oil tycoons raising gas an extra dollar for no reason, because its not demanded, doing so is going against the Qun. But, maybe you need to worry about being required to fight to the death should giant giraffes invade the water hole. And you have to do it with your bare hands. But atleast everyone understands whats required from them at all times. No half assing it.

I see... you take issue (a bit at least) about chaining mages but think it's absolutely acceptable to do so to the oil tycoon? 

[Avl521]

Well Templars hunt apostate mages, mages are locked in a tower and take different ceremonies that put them at risk of possession and other stuff by the chantry.
Chaining Qunari mages isn't exactly that different.

[LeaveMeAlone9009]

Hreterus wrote...

LeaveMeAlone9009 wrote...

wildfly wrote...

the qun is getting on my nerves. i understand the community above else, like in sparta but there everyone was equal. spartans banish you from the community only if you did something wrong. but the mage... here we have a brainwashed fellow who was told and treated like he was a piece of junk, until he believed it. no doubts, no inner freedom of thought, no hope. they're sitting in your head. that's scary.

The Qun is incorruptable. The Qun tells everyone what their role is. It is the role of the man with the leash to demand the obedience of the mage. The mage is demanded to obey. There is no middle ground for a reason, their society is built as it is, but I would say their society is actually a real one. A living organism striving forward, one that recognizes all the flaws and chooses to reject those flaws to follow something else.

I'm not saying it doesnt have "bad parts", but it doesnt need to appologise from them.

Once you go against the Qun, you are no longer Quinari. They make it very simple. It has appeal just for this fact. They don't even take away your freedom of choice. Anyone can leave at anytime, sure the Qun demands that you be hunted, but you can go. So feeedom is still there, but structure is never NOT there. No one needs to worry about revolts, because everyone chose to be of the Qun and accept their role.

But then, it does seem contradicting, why have spies at all then? Because it is demanded. If something is not demanded, then it is not done.

So, you dont need to worry about oil tycoons raising gas an extra dollar for no reason, because its not demanded, doing so is going against the Qun. But, maybe you need to worry about being required to fight to the death should giant giraffes invade the water hole. And you have to do it with your bare hands. But atleast everyone understands whats required from them at all times. No half assing it.

I see... you take issue (a bit at least) about chaining mages but think it's absolutely acceptable to do so to the oil tycoon? 

I dont like oil tycoons who raise gas prices for falsified reasons.

So why not?

They are corrupt, not because of need, not because of a demand to a way of life. But just because they want to, and they can.

The only punishment that is acceptable, is the form of punishment that is demand of the rules of any given society.

If a society sees corruption as that, as something that doesnt need to be punished, or something that doesnt need to be investigated, then it will just go on.

There is no demand for truth, no demand for anything. It's all just up in the air.

The mage knows whats demanded of him, my personal issues aside. Everything is certain.

In our society, NOTHING is certain, EVERYTHING is to chance and chaos, even with direction. We have no certainty, except knowing that everyone of us who lives and breathes is alive but will die one day.

We dont know any purpose, but we are free. But, are we really so unlike the Qun already?

We are like the Qun, if you believe otherwise you are wrong. Unless you live in the bush and eat berries and hunt bears with your hands or something and take dumps on government property with your renegade group of berrie thugs.

hahahahahahaha

[Hreterus]

LeaveMeAlone9009 wrote...

Hreterus wrote...

LeaveMeAlone9009 wrote...

wildfly wrote...

the qun is getting on my nerves. i understand the community above else, like in sparta but there everyone was equal. spartans banish you from the community only if you did something wrong. but the mage... here we have a brainwashed fellow who was told and treated like he was a piece of junk, until he believed it. no doubts, no inner freedom of thought, no hope. they're sitting in your head. that's scary.

The Qun is incorruptable. The Qun tells everyone what their role is. It is the role of the man with the leash to demand the obedience of the mage. The mage is demanded to obey. There is no middle ground for a reason, their society is built as it is, but I would say their society is actually a real one. A living organism striving forward, one that recognizes all the flaws and chooses to reject those flaws to follow something else.

I'm not saying it doesnt have "bad parts", but it doesnt need to appologise from them.

Once you go against the Qun, you are no longer Quinari. They make it very simple. It has appeal just for this fact. They don't even take away your freedom of choice. Anyone can leave at anytime, sure the Qun demands that you be hunted, but you can go. So feeedom is still there, but structure is never NOT there. No one needs to worry about revolts, because everyone chose to be of the Qun and accept their role.

But then, it does seem contradicting, why have spies at all then? Because it is demanded. If something is not demanded, then it is not done.

So, you dont need to worry about oil tycoons raising gas an extra dollar for no reason, because its not demanded, doing so is going against the Qun. But, maybe you need to worry about being required to fight to the death should giant giraffes invade the water hole. And you have to do it with your bare hands. But atleast everyone understands whats required from them at all times. No half assing it.

I see... you take issue (a bit at least) about chaining mages but think it's absolutely acceptable to do so to the oil tycoon? 

I dont like oil tycoons who raise gas prices for falsified reasons.

So why not?

They are corrupt, not because of need, not because of a demand to a way of life. But just because they want to, and they can.

The only punishment that is acceptable, is the form of punishment that is demand of the rules of any given society.

If a society sees corruption as that, as something that doesnt need to be punished, or something that doesnt need to be investigated, then it will just go on.

There is no demand for truth, no demand for anything. It's all just up in the air.

The mage knows whats demanded of him, my personal issues aside. Everything is certain.

In our society, NOTHING is certain, EVERYTHING is to chance and chaos, even with direction. We have no certainty, except knowing that everyone of us who lives and breathes is alive but will die one day.

We dont know any purpose, but we are free. But, are we really so unlike the Qun already?

We are like the Qun, if you believe otherwise you are wrong. Unless you live in the bush and eat berries and hunt bears with your hands or something and take dumps on government property with your renegade group of berrie thugs.

hahahahahahaha

1. Ah yes... need not ability is your standard of good.
2. If 10000 idiots are yelling burn the witch at the oil tycoon they aren't right just becouse they're many
3. "Those that prefer safety over freedom, deserve neither"

[LeaveMeAlone9009]

wildfly wrote...

LeaveMeAlone9009 wrote...

wildfly wrote...

the qun is getting on my nerves. i understand the community above else, like in sparta but there everyone was equal. spartans banish you from the community only if you did something wrong. but the mage... here we have a brainwashed fellow who was told and treated like he was a piece of junk, until he believed it. no doubts, no inner freedom of thought, no hope. they're sitting in your head. that's scary.

The Qun is incorruptable. The Qun tells everyone what their role is. It is the role of the man with the leash to demand the obedience of the mage. The mage is demanded to obey.

incorruptable? i undersand, they don't take bribes, but what's about human, or rather qunari stupidity?
they're so full of themselves, never doubt that they do the right decisions. but if that were so and everyone had his job according to his abilities, why there are so many qunari runaways?

People can still choose. The Qun just is. You choose it, or not.

There is no middle ground for a reason, their society is built as it is, but I would say their society is actually a real one. A living organism striving forward, one that recognizes all the flaws and chooses to reject those flaws to follow something else.

yep, that's actually nice. but for me, it's a bit static. no development. the qun is absolute, no need to revision it, to make it better. stagnation comes to mind...

Stagnation? Then if you believe this, the Qun is not for you. And, I do not know of the Qun, I do not know what is written of the other parts. Or what is demanded.  Perhaps I am not best equipped to explain my point of view without knowing the other two halves. I've only see what the Qun has to offer based on their warriors.

I'm not saying it doesnt have "bad parts", but it doesnt need to appologise from them.

i think actually it has. the moving force behid the cruel behavior against the mages is fear. they fear them so they try to terrorize them completely, deny them the human status, same as romans were calling slaves 'talking instuments' thereby justyfing the inhuman treatment. you cannot treat humans that way, but instruments? why not.
same here, and with the full cooporation of the victim.

Again, I'm not saying its right, but its what is demanded of the Qun. Its not like one day the holder of the leash is going to eating the dudes toes, that is not tolerated under the Qun. Is it? The Qun is just absolution, its groundwork creates a society that has no middle ground. Everyone has purpose. Do or do not. Whats so wrong about that? Philosophical differences aside.

Anyone can leave at anytime, sure the Qun demands that you be hunted, but you can go.

some freedom to leave

Again, the Qun JUST IS.

It doesnt change, it doesnt mutate due to corruption, or it is not the Qun. Do you see what im getting at? It is the Qun.

No one needs to worry about revolts, because everyone chose to be of the Qun and accept their role.

no, they didn't chose it. the free choice and ability to think was cut out before it could be developed. like a leg amputation. they didn't even interpret the qun in different ways. they aren't able to do analitical thinkig, only obey 'qun commands' doesn't that scare you?

The Qun, is the Quinari people, by stating people should be scared of the Qun, is controling them, like anything else.

What is freedom to you? Freedom go to through life without purpose? Freedom to experiencing needless suffering? What is freedom to you?

Our societies today dont even HAVE real freedom anymore, in fact. I dont believe any human on this earth today KNOWS what freedom is. I speak my mind right now, but it doesnt make me free. It just means I can speak my mind. Dont people really understand ANYTHING anymore?

The Qun IS THE QUN, YOU CANNOT ARGUE AGAINST THE QUN FOR IT FILLS A DEMAND, IT GIVES PURPOSE. IT DOES THIS WITHOUT CORRUPTION, BECAUSE THE QUN JUST IS. ACCEPT IT, OR DO NOT. 

[Hreterus]

Freedom is the use of reason without threat of force.

Life has purpose if you make it so.

So what is freedom to you?