409 réponses à ce sujet

[LeaveMeAlone9009]

Hreterus wrote...

LeaveMeAlone9009 wrote...

Hreterus wrote...

LeaveMeAlone9009 wrote...

wildfly wrote...

the qun is getting on my nerves. i understand the community above else, like in sparta but there everyone was equal. spartans banish you from the community only if you did something wrong. but the mage... here we have a brainwashed fellow who was told and treated like he was a piece of junk, until he believed it. no doubts, no inner freedom of thought, no hope. they're sitting in your head. that's scary.

The Qun is incorruptable. The Qun tells everyone what their role is. It is the role of the man with the leash to demand the obedience of the mage. The mage is demanded to obey. There is no middle ground for a reason, their society is built as it is, but I would say their society is actually a real one. A living organism striving forward, one that recognizes all the flaws and chooses to reject those flaws to follow something else.

I'm not saying it doesnt have "bad parts", but it doesnt need to appologise from them.

Once you go against the Qun, you are no longer Quinari. They make it very simple. It has appeal just for this fact. They don't even take away your freedom of choice. Anyone can leave at anytime, sure the Qun demands that you be hunted, but you can go. So feeedom is still there, but structure is never NOT there. No one needs to worry about revolts, because everyone chose to be of the Qun and accept their role.

But then, it does seem contradicting, why have spies at all then? Because it is demanded. If something is not demanded, then it is not done.

So, you dont need to worry about oil tycoons raising gas an extra dollar for no reason, because its not demanded, doing so is going against the Qun. But, maybe you need to worry about being required to fight to the death should giant giraffes invade the water hole. And you have to do it with your bare hands. But atleast everyone understands whats required from them at all times. No half assing it.

I see... you take issue (a bit at least) about chaining mages but think it's absolutely acceptable to do so to the oil tycoon? 

I dont like oil tycoons who raise gas prices for falsified reasons.

So why not?

They are corrupt, not because of need, not because of a demand to a way of life. But just because they want to, and they can.

The only punishment that is acceptable, is the form of punishment that is demand of the rules of any given society.

If a society sees corruption as that, as something that doesnt need to be punished, or something that doesnt need to be investigated, then it will just go on.

There is no demand for truth, no demand for anything. It's all just up in the air.

The mage knows whats demanded of him, my personal issues aside. Everything is certain.

In our society, NOTHING is certain, EVERYTHING is to chance and chaos, even with direction. We have no certainty, except knowing that everyone of us who lives and breathes is alive but will die one day.

We dont know any purpose, but we are free. But, are we really so unlike the Qun already?

We are like the Qun, if you believe otherwise you are wrong. Unless you live in the bush and eat berries and hunt bears with your hands or something and take dumps on government property with your renegade group of berrie thugs.

hahahahahahaha

1. Ah yes... need not ability is your standard of good.
2. If 10000 idiots are yelling burn the witch at the oil tycoon they aren't right just becouse they're many
3. "Those that prefer safety over freedom, deserve neither"

This is just a battle of opinions, one could argue, that all that matters are results.

And to the comment on the quote "Those that prefer safety over freedom, deserve neither."

Who says living in the Quinari society is safe? I may be demanded to travel half across the world to investigate foreign nations. That isn't safe. But it is certain, I have a role. Wether the benefits of such a role keep me in it, is purely up to me. Not the society.

The Qun, does not exist to answer the people's whims. It is a society. It functions as one.
If people find something they like in the Qun, and accept it, then why argue against it?

Perhaps I am doing a disservice to the ideals of the Qun, by bothering to explain my point of view at all. In fact, I know I am.

So, I'll just leave it at that. Perhaps I'm using too strong of words, by saying this is wrong, and that is wrong.

As for the oil tycoon thing, that comes from a personal opinion, nothing more. So disregard that.

[LeaveMeAlone9009]

Hreterus wrote...

Freedom is the use of reason without threat of force.

Life has purpose if you make it so.

So what is freedom to you?

Perceptions of freedom purely depend on how crazy the person in question is.

Bwuahahahahaha

Modifié par LeaveMeAlone9009, 13 mars 2011 - 10:27 .

[LeaveMeAlone9009]

Hreterus wrote...

Freedom is the use of reason without threat of force.

Life has purpose if you make it so.

So what is freedom to you?

Hmm, I have thought on your words.

I think you are correct, Freedom IS the use of reason with threat of force.


However, arguing against the Qun is just pointless, it does not apologise for what it is. It just is.

[Avl521]

Lol dude you're doing a terrible job trying to defend the Qun.

[LeaveMeAlone9009]

Avl521 wrote...

Lol dude you're doing a terrible job trying to defend the Qun.

I can't defend the Qun, anything I say is speculation and opinion, the Qun just is.

The Qun has its own parts to defend itself.

Why should I care? I'm not of the Qun. Would I join the Qun if it was real?

Maybe, I got freedom to do whatever. Until someone kills me.

[LeaveMeAlone9009]

I'm beginning to see why the most common reply of a follower of the Qun is "No."


Hmm....

[Avl521]

LeaveMeAlone9009 wrote...

Avl521 wrote...

Lol dude you're doing a terrible job trying to defend the Qun.

I can't defend the Qun, anything I say is speculation and opinion, the Qun just is.

The Qun has its own parts to defend itself.

Why should I care? I'm not of the Qun. Would I join the Qun if it was real?

Maybe, I got freedom to do whatever. Until someone kills me.

All I'm saying is that you're being apologetic.
And the arguments you use are lame. "The Qun just is." is that all you've got?
If people take a position saying "The Qun has no freedom, The Qun X, The Qun Y..." and you're being apologetic then you're doing a bad job with your justifications.

Basically if the ones criticizing the Qun sued it, and you were the Lawyer trying to justifiy its actions/defend its position... IMO You'd lose this case.

AND: PD: I like the Qun and the Qunari, so no, I'm not criticizing it. I think the Qun has VERY interesting goals and principles. So don't take it against me or anything, I like the Qun.

Modifié par Avl521, 13 mars 2011 - 10:53 .

[LeaveMeAlone9009]

Avl521 wrote...

LeaveMeAlone9009 wrote...

Avl521 wrote...

Lol dude you're doing a terrible job trying to defend the Qun.

I can't defend the Qun, anything I say is speculation and opinion, the Qun just is.

The Qun has its own parts to defend itself.

Why should I care? I'm not of the Qun. Would I join the Qun if it was real?

Maybe, I got freedom to do whatever. Until someone kills me.

All I'm saying is that you're being apologetic.
And the arguments you use are lame. "The Qun just is." is that all you've got?
If people take a position saying "The Qun has no freedom, The Qun X, The Qun Y..." and you're being apologetic then you're doing a bad job with your justifications.

Basically if the ones criticizing the Qun sued it, and you were the Lawyer trying to justifiy its actions/defend its position... IMO You'd lose this case.

AND: PD: I like the Qun and the Qunari, so no, I'm not criticizing it. I think the Qun has VERY interesting goals and principles. So don't take it against me or anything, I like the Qun.

You're right ofcourse, but perhaps I don't fully agree with those same views?

Which is perhaps why I seem apologetic.

No, I don't agree on the over controlling of the mages. But then again, I'm not a giant horned man, and I think about too many things at once if I made a society. For instance, the anatomy of the Quinari, is different than mine. You also build societies around these facts, what species are you?

Dictates placement, and goals.

Our society, one common goal is to age, get family and wealth, die, and have it continue.Stability for our gene seed. But in a society like that, its actually a focus more on the society, not the people in question.

So the Qun JUST IS. I cannot offer anything but speculation, I am not Quinari, I do not know of the Qun. I can sure ACT like it though.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Let me just say, Perhaps I am someone, who may join the Qun, just to see what its like. And if I didnt like it? I'd act like a drone long enough to wait for my chance to escape.

If I did like it? I'd stay, I'd never try to recruit people unless it was demanded of me and I accepted to succeed within that role.

It's all just opinion really.


(And to those who believes this would effect my real world decisions? HAHAHAHA Earth is pretty much screwed unless science figures out a way to save us, and we all bound together, so no, I would just stay with my country, its the same **** everywhere. Power corrupts, and so does laziness.)

Modifié par LeaveMeAlone9009, 13 mars 2011 - 11:03 .

[LeaveMeAlone9009]

I have explained my thoughts far too much, thus weakening my foothold.

I HAVE FAILED.

THE QUN DEMANDS I GO JUMP INTO A RIVER BLINDFOLDED.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Le Diable]

And i thought that bioware just forgot to put the horns on the Quns in Origins.. now i somehow seem to understand or should say i see the reason why Ogre have horns
reasoning anything else with the quns seems to just fall apart

[Avl521]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

Avl521 wrote...

Well Templars hunt apostate mages, mages are locked in a tower and take different ceremonies that put them at risk of possession and other stuff by the chantry.
Chaining Qunari mages isn't exactly that different.

It's a lot more efficient. Glad that the Qunari take the problem more seriously than the Templars.

Though apparently Qunari lost a war because they were less than humans and their mages were not strong compared to human mages who are not repressed or chained. They apparently had cannons and technology that humans didn't have, but human mages were more powerful and numerous than their cannons. (So... Qunari are smarter than humans in Dragon Age... but they don't use magic?)

Therefore their way of treating mages cost them the war?

[LeaveMeAlone9009]

I just realized, the Quinari also engineered bioweapons.

Bioweapons, no one else has, what is stopping them from simply wiping out the world and taking over everything?

I believe the Quinari are honorable.

[hawkens982]

I think the Qunari are an interesting race of people in Dragon Age. This is mostly due to the fact that they are similar to races in some of my other favourite IP, like the Seanchan from Wheel of Time (chaining of magic users and conquering group) and the Tau from W40K (somewhat ideal wise, more technologically advanced and a rigid caste system).

[Homebound]

the Qunari remind me of mmorpg-gamers. Its just something about how everything has to be a certain way to them. Like the qunari mages for example. Notice how even though the mage is its own person, it gets controlled by someone else? Like how a HEALER-class in a MMORPG raid gets bossed around.

[Steptroll]

Personally, I think the Qun is an ideal society. The certainty and the striving towards a greater goal appeal to me. Not having to worry about what to do or how to go about life would let you focus on actually living.

And its' not like individual Qunari are unhappy and oppressed. Don't forget, according to the lore, many of the areas conquered by the Qunari but then retaken by the Chantry rose up in rebellion because the Qun had granted a far better standard of living than many people had experienced under human rule. Especially Elves, who became equal citizens under Qunari rule.

Honestly, Communism is a great idea, its' just that people are too lazy/power hungry for it to work.

Modifié par Steptroll, 14 mars 2011 - 11:01 .

[Hreterus]

Steptroll wrote...

Personally, I think the Qun is an ideal society. The certainty and the striving towards a greater goal appeal to me. Not having to worry about what to do or how to go about life would let you focus on actually living.

Ah, so you want to give up your responsibility for your own life so that you could focus on actually living... right. Just make sure you don't force it on me.

And its' not like individual Qunari are unhappy and oppressed. Don't forget, according to the lore, many of the areas conquered by the Qunari but then retaken by the Chantry rose up in rebellion because the Qun had granted a far better standard of living than many people had experienced under human rule. Especially Elves, who became equal citizens under Qunari rule.

Chantry and the qun are both mystics and zealots. In REAL life the parts of the world that have more capitalism have a much better standard of living.

Honestly, Communism is a great idea, its' just that people are too lazy/power hungry for it to work.

WHAT?! You mean the lazy people that produce more in capitalism? And the power hungry dictators or mobs (if we're talking anarchy) in communism?

[Thy Bleed]

I'm surprised that we don't see more val Sharoth in the game. Did Bioware completely forget about them? Atleast 1 merchant.

[Werrf]

The Qun is an extreme and, like many extremes, goes too far. There's no use trying to control such inherently illogical, unpredictable creatures as humans through a rigid set of rules, there will ALWAYS be the ambitious, the rebellious, the just plain crazy - as we saw with the Tal Vashoth. Sure, for those who can accept it, it provides great stability, but biological life really does not work that way. That would be why when things go wrong for the Qunari (::coughstencough: things go very, VERY wrong.

I'm not saying the Qun has no advantages, or that it's totally indefensible, but it's way too extreme.

[Darian Tylmare]

Well the problem with the Qun is that it tries to surpress parts of the human psyche. I mean the want for appreciation is a basic psychological need but since the Qun has no way of distinguishing individuals through accomplishment, it's bound to not work with humans.
Another thing is the surpression of curiosity. People feel more and more frustrating doing the same things all their life without any bigger changes.
So I would say it wouldn't work.

[Beerfish]

I was initially not happy that the Qunari had horns and such in DA2 but the models and faces are way way better in DA2 than they were in DA1.

[Godhammer13]

I like the new look. The horns, tattoos (bodypaint?) and odd armor, give them a feral kind of look. But when you look at the rigid order of The Qun, it makes them that much stranger and unique. Love this series!