409 réponses à ce sujet

[Queen Eliza_]

be evil take the world by storm death is my gift

[Deified Data]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Dr. wonderful wrote...

wow, what a bunch of whiny little punks.


I'm going to take down The Qun.

Bunch of conformist, collectivist drones, the ultimate in dystopic societies. I am going to enjoy destroying these worms.

...that said, being the RPGer that I am, should DA2 have staying power and replayability value, I will make one Hawke who agrees with these ideas, if possible. Will prolly be one of my more evil Hawkes.

Collectivist and dystopic from a Chantry-bred, human viewpoint. All we know about the Qun we know from human-written accounts in the Codex and from Sten's annoyed comments. The Qunari have waged war with thedas for hundreds of years, so obviously they're not going to be presented in the most positive light. As Sten once said, people can't be categorized in so few words, and I look forward to learning more about my favorite DA race. If the opportunity arises to support them in some way, I'll likely do so.

[Medhia Nox]

I love what they've done with their mages - I think I'll promote proper Qunari values in Fereldan and the Free Marches. Mages are filthy loose canons - each one is a demon waiting to burst forth. Even the First Enchanters know this - that's why the Circle mages support Tranquil(izing).

[Queen Eliza_]

be evil take the world by storm death is my gift

[KenKenpachi]

Queen Eliza wrote...

be evil take the world by storm death is my gift

You seem to say that in every thread you've posted in today, is this all part of some evil ritual to take our souls?

[HolyJellyfish]

I love the design of the Qunari mages. But dear god, I feel so sad for them. Even if they are hailed as honorable and selfless, I don't think anyone cares to have their tongue cut out, mouths sewn shut, and a mask of shame on.

And we thought the Circle was bad.

[Greta13]

I wonder what Anders, or the demon/spirit thing of Vengeance inside Anders, will think of the Qunari treatment of mages?

[HolyJellyfish]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

Nobuhide wrote...

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...
A Qunarihuman would be the neatest. They have waged war against us for a long time right? Unless their caste system has really constrained them to be complete automatons, I'm sure there must have been cases of rape at some point in all that war. Though, it's also possible that a human/elf/dwarf female would die trying to give birth to what is probably a really, really large baby. 

Hmm could have gone the other way around too and i'm sure a female Qunari would be able to birth such a baby

My understanding is the female Qunari stay at home in Par Vollen, cooking and cleaning. Since it's the Qunari that invaded Thedas, I don't see much oppurtunity for human/dwarf/elf males to live out their satyr fantasies on sexy Qunari lasses. 

Some reminding needs to be taken.

Female Qunari are NOT Oppressed / tied down / forced to be domestic. In fact, Female Qunari probably have more power than the Male Qunari since their roles are Preists, Government officials, etc.

They control the infrastructure of the Qun. The Females decide the roles and titles given to a Qunari at birth. If the Females feel that a Qunari would be a wonderful warrior, it is assigned accordingly. If the females notice a mage, they are the ones who issue the order.

The women are very much the rulers in that society, if you want to compare it to a traditional government.

[Deified Data]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

I love the design of the Qunari mages. But dear god, I feel so sad for them. Even if they are hailed as honorable and selfless, I don't think anyone cares to have their tongue cut out, mouths sewn shut, and a mask of shame on.

And we thought the Circle was bad.

Perhaps. It likely makes perfect sense to a Qunari, however. Note that cruelty is distinctly lacking from Qunari culture - when they cut out your tongue, they're doing it for a damn-good reason. At some point along the line, Qunari mages must have done something to warrant such treatment, and now their unfortunate descendents reap the rewards. not saying it's right, but it can't be entirely senseless.

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Some reminding needs to be taken.

Female Qunari are NOT Oppressed / tied down / forced to be domestic. In fact, Female Qunari probably have more power than the Male Qunari since their roles are Preists, Government officials, etc.

They control the infrastructure of the Qun. The Females decide the roles and titles given to a Qunari at birth. If the Females feel that a Qunari would be a wonderful warrior, it is assigned accordingly. If the females notice a mage, they are the ones who issue the order.

The women are very much the rulers in that society, if you want to compare it to a traditional government.

Remember that the Qunari have no "rulers" as humans know them, they don't require "leadership" because they're all working towards the same goal. While you're correct that female Qunari are anything but tied-down, they certainly don't wield the powers of a king.

Modifié par Deified Data, 05 mars 2011 - 04:52 .

[lost lupus]

Teknor wrote...

Obviously the many humans prefer the Qun to Chantry and no they are not brain washed. It's either conversion or labour camps.

ah yes centurys of occupation where your sent to a labour camp if you dont do what they say im guessing you dont actualy understand the idea of brainwashing it is to make someone think a certain way ie: oppose the Qun and be sent to a labour camp or convice yourself the Qun is awesome

real world examples of this exact thing can be drawn rather easly but if dont already no that then you live in a bubble or dont know much about making omlettes

[Dr. Chaos]

Really lame that they're saying both the DA1 Quanari and DA2 ones both exist.

Would rather they purge the "we're just really tall and look kind of depressed" look altogether and just retcon them into always being awesome beastmen. That way Sten wouldn't have to show up looking like a dull lifeless statue the next time he pops up.

[HolyJellyfish]

Deified Data wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Some reminding needs to be taken.

Female Qunari are NOT Oppressed / tied down / forced to be domestic. In fact, Female Qunari probably have more power than the Male Qunari since their roles are Preists, Government officials, etc.

They control the infrastructure of the Qun. The Females decide the roles and titles given to a Qunari at birth. If the Females feel that a Qunari would be a wonderful warrior, it is assigned accordingly. If the females notice a mage, they are the ones who issue the order.

The women are very much the rulers in that society, if you want to compare it to a traditional government.

Remember that the Qunari have no "rulers" as humans know them, they don't require "leadership" because they're all working towards the same goal. While you're correct that female Qunari are anything but tied-down, they certainly don't wield the powers of a king.

Hence why I said "If you want to compare it to a traditional government"

I'm just a little tired of hearing people go off about how Female Qunari are oppressed and forced in the kitchen. Not the case at ALL. The women are the administrators, the spiritual leaders, and the teachers. While the Qun teaches each part is equally important, but certain tasks are gender specific, the women very much have deeper control over the infrastructure. If the Men are the Muscle, the women are the brain.

[KenKenpachi]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

Nobuhide wrote...

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...
A Qunarihuman would be the neatest. They have waged war against us for a long time right? Unless their caste system has really constrained them to be complete automatons, I'm sure there must have been cases of rape at some point in all that war. Though, it's also possible that a human/elf/dwarf female would die trying to give birth to what is probably a really, really large baby. 

Hmm could have gone the other way around too and i'm sure a female Qunari would be able to birth such a baby

My understanding is the female Qunari stay at home in Par Vollen, cooking and cleaning. Since it's the Qunari that invaded Thedas, I don't see much oppurtunity for human/dwarf/elf males to live out their satyr fantasies on sexy Qunari lasses. 

Some reminding needs to be taken.

Female Qunari are NOT Oppressed / tied down / forced to be domestic. In fact, Female Qunari probably have more power than the Male Qunari since their roles are Preists, Government officials, etc.

They control the infrastructure of the Qun. The Females decide the roles and titles given to a Qunari at birth. If the Females feel that a Qunari would be a wonderful warrior, it is assigned accordingly. If the females notice a mage, they are the ones who issue the order.

The women are very much the rulers in that society, if you want to compare it to a traditional government.

Each to his Own, Each acording to his need. All are Equal. There is no generd baisness. Men Generally ARE Stronger than Women. And Women tend to make far more effective administrators given natural skills for orderness and mathmatics. Thus they actully have a VERY equal and just society, but one lacking in personal Freedom, the good of the many over the few. All have a role to play and a duty to do. All else is base, and not important, but to be ignored. Or so it goes.

As to the rape thing, plausable, but not always likely. In WW2 many raped women commited suicide. And in some Units Rape never happend among its soldiers. It depends on the level of unit discipline. Given what we've read and seen they DO loot. However they may not rape. We arn't even sure we are compatable, though I assume that we are, however there may be a stigma attached to it among the Qunari People's. Much as various Raiders in Earths Past would not rape women of other races or take them as a wife out of a view it waters down the race. However given the view of the Qun, it seems race is a none issue. And humans can have pretty large babies, plenty of up to 11-14 lbs.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 05 mars 2011 - 05:00 .

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

You can pretty it up all you want, but any society that forces gender specific roles is suppressing both genders. I was just picking on the women, but the same goes for their men as well.

[Medhia Nox]

HolyJellyfish - if I knew my soul could potentially be consumed by a demon (this isn't some abstract real world concept in dragon age - it's fact), I would take any steps to ensure that didn't happen while still staying in service.

Now - being Tranquil seems more humane, that's true. But is it? You basically lobotomize a human and turn them into an autistic shell. Removing a being's emotions seems worse than scaring their bodies.

It's not a matter of "should" they watch over mages. All mages who support society believe mages should be controlled (in the game). You don't see a single mage who thinks forcing Tranquility is wrong - and First Enchanter Irving supports it. All rebel anarchist mages believe mages should be "free".

Of course - being an apostate and a blood mage are two different things. But without education - you would likely be forced to demonic tutoring (and DA:O confirms Blood Magic comes from demons). But I look at it like gun control laws. More civilians die in American by guns a year than anywhere else in the world not at war. Now - amp that up exponentially due to power levels of a mage - and free magic become anathema to civilization.

Of course - most people don't want to think deeply about their games. But I enjoy trying to think about the designs of fantasy worlds - and what they say about society, spirituality, progress, etc. etc. blah blah.

[Deified Data]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

You can pretty it up all you want, but any society that forces gender specific roles is suppressing both genders. I was just picking on the women, but the same goes for their men as well.

It doesn't. Females and males end up in their respective vocations because it's what they are - choice plays no part, to be sure, but neither does force. If a male Qunari thinks he would be a better priest than a soldier, he will be re-evaluated and placed into the priesthood if he is deemed competent. A female Qunari would never consider becoming a soldier - it would be like you or I considering becoming a bird, or a mastodon. We can't, because we are what we are.

Those Qunari who don't accept their role simply leave. If they want no part in the Qun, they don't have to stay.

[lost lupus]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

You can pretty it up all you want, but any society that forces gender specific roles is suppressing both genders. I was just picking on the women, but the same goes for their men as well.

the Qun more suppresses the individual your merely a device that performs a function this is why they dont have leaders the individual is taught at a young age not to strive for anything other then perfecting that role (of course if those who assign roles see that said hammer might make a better screw driver thern it my be reassiged) 

i can see its appeal to some "the greater good" types

Modifié par lost lupus, 05 mars 2011 - 05:14 .

[KenKenpachi]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

You can pretty it up all you want, but any society that forces gender specific roles is suppressing both genders. I was just picking on the women, but the same goes for their men as well.

Well it seems to not have harmed the Chinese in the past all too much. The Human rights is another issue, as is freedom. In the Qun and some Eastern nations past and present if a Man is large an able to be a warrior, then thats what he will be. In the West he can be a painter, but that doesn't change the fact he would still make a good soldier. Only thing is in the west no one can force it. Part of why we have unqualified morons running the show nearly always. Democracy may offer more freedoms and let anyone be what they wish, but they may not be good at it, thus to the worsening of the society.

I myself am a fallower of Meritism. Each being placed where he or she is best suited. A son of a blacksmith or a cripple if proven to be a good commander should command Armies. The Mongols adopted such a policy. And it was said though the system more so in dealiing with a rebelous populance is barbaric, the fact was an old woman could walk from one end of the empire to the other with no harm done to her (with a sack of gold). I have yet to see any Western Society that can make that claim. Though Draconian, no one can denie that some effort of Discipline is needed in daily life of a person, or his society.

But on the topic, the Qunari don't see it as wrong or "dressed up" or at least a big enough portion to be a threat do not. In fact any sort of goverment is possible, I could be a dick and make everyone wear blue shirts on Mondays. If you don't you die. Have enough people that go thats a good idea, well you can do it. Right or wrong doesn't matter unless someone puts a stop to it, or enough people go, no we will wear red.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 05 mars 2011 - 05:15 .

[lost lupus]

wierd i quoted myself

Modifié par lost lupus, 05 mars 2011 - 05:18 .

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

We can pretend it's all rosy and perfect in Qunari society, but I like to think Sten's gradual transformation and willingness over the course of your conversations and adventures in Origins to see the world from a view outside the Qunari mindset is proof that all that rosiness within the Qunari society is just what cliches like "ignorance is bliss" were designed for.

Hey, I love the Qunari as a fictional fantasy society. I'm not trying to start a debate on human rights. It's a fictional universe and I don't find anything wrong with what they do. I just think it's a bit...blind to pretend they don't do it.

[Deified Data]

lost lupus wrote...

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

You can pretty it up all you want, but any society that forces gender specific roles is suppressing both genders. I was just picking on the women, but the same goes for their men as well.

the Qun more suppresses the individual your merely a device that performs a function this is why they dont have leaders the individual is taught at a young age not to strive for anything other then perfecting that role (of course if those who assign roles see that said hammer might make a better screw driver thern it my be reassiged) 

i can see its appeal to some "the greater good" types

Why must they be taught at a young age? Who's to say they aren't born with these instincts intact? Qunari are not human, and may be hard-wired towards different behavior. Those who rebel from it may simply be insane. It would be a mistake to assume they think like humans just because they're humanoid.

[Thy Bleed]

Is there an image of a Qunari female anywhere?

[Arppis]

Thy Bleed wrote...

Is there an image of a Qunari female anywhere?

In the concept art there is. But I think they are in a kitchen mostly.

[Medhia Nox]

Sten, btw, was awesome. It was hard for my character to break through his exterior - his conversation tree just "ended" for a while - but once we broke the ice, he was an awesome character.

The only actual bad thing about the Qunari is that they don't have sweets.

I'm curious about female Qunari mages. It's probably just a mild oversight - but Sten asks Wynne why she isn't doing "female things". Being an adventurer isn't a "female thing" in Qunari lands evidently - but, she is a mage. Do the Qunari not have female mages? I look forward to finding out.

[Deified Data]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

We can pretend it's all rosy and perfect in Qunari society, but I like to think Sten's gradual transformation and willingness over the course of your conversations and adventures in Origins to see the world from a view outside the Qunari mindset is proof that all that rosiness within the Qunari society is just what cliches like "ignorance is bliss" were designed for.

Hey, I love the Qunari as a fictional fantasy society. I'm not trying to start a debate on human rights. It's a fictional universe and I don't find anything wrong with what they do. I just think it's a bit...blind to pretend they don't do it.

I think it's quite the opposite, actually. You gain Sten's respect by attempting to understand his ways. He doesn't soften in the end, your perception of his beliefs do. He's still the same old Qunari he always was - you've simply come to the conclusion that he's not bat-**** insane. I think the problem with our perception of the Qun is that the only perspective we have of it is from one reluctant party member and centuries of bigoted, paranoid misinformation.

Also, female Qunari look like this:


The most attractive of the DA races, IMO.