63 réponses à ce sujet

[Pwener2313]

So let's think for a minute on this. No racism or xenophobia, no hate on Cerberus or TIM, just a discussion on it being possible or not.

ME1 - If you kill the Council in ME1, a new one is formed with Humans on top. If you finish the game with high Renegade points, a Human exclusive Council is instead integrated.

ME2 - We get the option to keep or destroy the base at the end of ME2. Pretend that the base is safe and that technology that could be used against the Reapers is succesfully gained.


So far we have; political power and super tech. Do you think that's enough? Do you think that if Humans do achieve power, we'll be able to hold it?


Don't make this a "The Collector Base is dangerous", "TIM is evil" or "Cerberus is racist" thread, Im sick of those and this is a completally different topic.

[Aurgelmir]

I think our decent performance in the first conact war (all things considered) and how far we've come, yes its possible.

It's time for Humanity to rise up and seize its destiny.

[brightblueink]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this happens in ME3 due to Renegade decisions. The game definitely seems to be moving toward that.

[Ty2011]

It's possible but I don't think it leads down a good path. We need unity not supremacy.

[Pwener2313]

brightblueink wrote...

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this happens in ME3 due to Renegade decisions. The game definitely seems to be moving toward that.

Both endgame decisions lead to it. Specially ME2's with TIM mentioning using the base to advance Humanity.

[Pwener2313]

Ty2011 wrote...

It's possible but I don't think it leads down a good path. We need unity not supremacy.

yeah, because the Council was doing such a great job at dooming the galaxy.

[Whatever42]

No, there really can't be human dominance per se. The Asari, Turians, Volus, etc. already control large areas of the galaxy and trade with each other. Other than threats of violence, there is no real way of dominating them.

On the other hand, human expansion into the terminus and dominance there would benefit everyone.

[lotuslover]

Ty2011 wrote...

It's possible but I don't think it leads down a good path. We need unity not supremacy.

I agree very much with this.

[armass]

Short answer: No

Number wise we cant hold the galaxy as ransom. Not anywhere near. Even with superior reaper tech, rebels, meaning the united alien populace and human dissidant groups who oppose space fascist empire, could reverse engineer it at some point and take the new "empire" over. Every fascist galactic empire gets its rebel alliance.

Federation with lots of species has a much more success rate than an empire dominated by one species.

Modifié par armass, 05 mars 2011 - 02:34 .

[Barquiel]

I guess it depends on how hard the reapers hit the four council races (...I will, however, stop any attempts to establish human dominance).

[Elvis_Mazur]

Since the renegade path is heading that way... yes, it will be, possibly, able to achieve.

[The real truth]

Is the war over?
Did we win?

Modifié par The real truth, 05 mars 2011 - 04:02 .

[SalsaDMA]

armass wrote...

Short answer: No

Number wise we cant hold the galaxy as ransom. Not anywhere near. Even with superior reaper tech, rebels, meaning the united alien populace and human dissidant groups who oppose space fascist empire, could reverse engineer it at some point and take the new "empire" over. Every fascist galactic empire gets its rebel alliance.

Federation with lots of species has a much more success rate than an empire dominated by one species.

If the base can be used to research enough into relays to be able to control them, control could be quite easily established with control of the citadel. Kinda hard for the other races to do anything if they only got non-relay means of transportation while the humans can zoom all over the galaxy. Especially given the human doctrine in space warfare as described in the codex.

In this case, human dominance would be a foregone conclusion for quite a while, possible forever as the other races wouldn't be able to physically do anything against it. Heck, even opening up new relays to new areas would be safer and allow more expansion into uncharted territory faster, allowing for a bigger resource pile to grab from. The need to build up an infrastructure to support such a big empire would be the biggest problem, not what other races would want to think of doing.

Edit: Almost forgot: The relays control the flow of information too, so basicly controlling the relays as an empire means you could cut off 'dissendants' from being able to receive/broadcast communications. How are you going to stage a galacticwide rebeliion when you can't even communicate outside your system?

Modifié par SalsaDMA, 05 mars 2011 - 04:36 .

[AdmiralCheez]

I think the possibility of human dominance is pretty much a given; one of the major themes behind Mass Effect is whether or not you believe humanity reaching its full potential is more important than galactic unity.

In other words, "Well, durr!"

[Mindr]

Well, considering that the Systems' Alliance economy as a whole is vastly inferior to the those of the Salarians and the Asari, while its military might is again smaller than that of the Turians' ( And if one follows the Renegade path, the turians supposedly ingnore the Treaty of Farixen and probably start building up their dreadnought (sp?) numbers.)

I'd say that the Reapers will start off with the Human Colonies and Earth rather than spread out and kill everything in sight, leaving the rest of the Organics alone until they have sorted the Humans out. As a Renegade Shepard, I could see the other races reluctant to help at first ( especially the Turians), the all-Human Council in disarray with no power to enforce their decisions, and the military crippled by the massive scale of the war against them.

The only way for complete human dominance I can predict would be to rally all organics to fight the Reapers while a part of human forces remain intact and once the Reapers are disposed of, to use those forces against the severely weakened aliens. Worse yet, perhaps Cerberus manages to recreate the indoctrination technology through the Collector base's remains and use it against the aliens, should Shepard allow it.

[LuxDragon]

I don't think so. Extend an empire too far and you got Ceaser, Alexander the Great, Gengis Khan; all greedy guys.

The fact of the matter is, you can only control so much before either manpower, resources, or influence become too stretched.

Modifié par LuxDragon, 05 mars 2011 - 04:59 .

[Mindr]

Don't know about Gengis Khan, but Alexander's empire was divided because none of his generals and successors were up to par with him when he died, so it's more because of their lack of leadership qualities than it is about Alexander's own greed.

Perhaps we might see something similar with a full Renegade Shepard, the possibilities are endless.

[armass]

SalsaDMA wrote...

armass wrote...

Short answer: No

Number wise we cant hold the galaxy as ransom. Not anywhere near. Even with superior reaper tech, rebels, meaning the united alien populace and human dissidant groups who oppose space fascist empire, could reverse engineer it at some point and take the new "empire" over. Every fascist galactic empire gets its rebel alliance.

Federation with lots of species has a much more success rate than an empire dominated by one species.

If the base can be used to research enough into relays to be able to control them, control could be quite easily established with control of the citadel. Kinda hard for the other races to do anything if they only got non-relay means of transportation while the humans can zoom all over the galaxy. Especially given the human doctrine in space warfare as described in the codex.

In this case, human dominance would be a foregone conclusion for quite a while, possible forever as the other races wouldn't be able to physically do anything against it. Heck, even opening up new relays to new areas would be safer and allow more expansion into uncharted territory faster, allowing for a bigger resource pile to grab from. The need to build up an infrastructure to support such a big empire would be the biggest problem, not what other races would want to think of doing.

Edit: Almost forgot: The relays control the flow of information too, so basicly controlling the relays as an empire means you could cut off 'dissendants' from being able to receive/broadcast communications. How are you going to stage a galacticwide rebeliion when you can't even communicate outside your system?

True controlling the mass relays would be a win ticket, however, since protheans at one point unlocked the secret of mass relays, what prevents other species from doing it, in secret of course?

[Mindr]

Well, do you remember the Asari Matriarch Bartender in Ilium? She did suggest that the Asari start building their own relays and although she was laughed at by the others, it does imply that at least the Asari may have sufficient knowledge to do it.

[armass]

Mindr wrote...

Well, do you remember the Asari Matriarch Bartender in Ilium? She did suggest that the Asari start building their own relays and although she was laughed at by the others, it does imply that at least the Asari may have sufficient knowledge to do it.

I believe turians and salarians might have similar programs in development already. Turians already manage to reverse engineer the Sovereign's weapons quite succesfully.

Modifié par armass, 05 mars 2011 - 05:38 .

[Mindr]

True enough.

[SalsaDMA]

armass wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

armass wrote...

Short answer: No

Number wise we cant hold the galaxy as ransom. Not anywhere near. Even with superior reaper tech, rebels, meaning the united alien populace and human dissidant groups who oppose space fascist empire, could reverse engineer it at some point and take the new "empire" over. Every fascist galactic empire gets its rebel alliance.

Federation with lots of species has a much more success rate than an empire dominated by one species.

If the base can be used to research enough into relays to be able to control them, control could be quite easily established with control of the citadel. Kinda hard for the other races to do anything if they only got non-relay means of transportation while the humans can zoom all over the galaxy. Especially given the human doctrine in space warfare as described in the codex.

In this case, human dominance would be a foregone conclusion for quite a while, possible forever as the other races wouldn't be able to physically do anything against it. Heck, even opening up new relays to new areas would be safer and allow more expansion into uncharted territory faster, allowing for a bigger resource pile to grab from. The need to build up an infrastructure to support such a big empire would be the biggest problem, not what other races would want to think of doing.

Edit: Almost forgot: The relays control the flow of information too, so basicly controlling the relays as an empire means you could cut off 'dissendants' from being able to receive/broadcast communications. How are you going to stage a galacticwide rebeliion when you can't even communicate outside your system?

True controlling the mass relays would be a win ticket, however, since protheans at one point unlocked the secret of mass relays, what prevents other species from doing it, in secret of course?

Information is power. Despots in the past and present have already shown that one of the ways to keep power is to limit the ability of controlled subjects to research/read and even destroy past owrks that could help with any form of enlightment. If you want to be brutal enough about it, you could do the reaper 'thing', seize control of the relays, sweep through the systems one by one and make sure there isn't anything left that isn't raw resource harvesting for your 'grand' empire, and brutally smack down on anything that even smells like research or sharing of knowledge. Force Illitaracy unto the subjects.

Edit: The worst part? It could be done without the systems being aware of it before it's too late. Shut down the relays. Allow select communication by sending a scout vessel right before the shutdown with info that lets the isolated systems come to the conclusion that it's a backlash from the reaper invasion or the Geth, or whatever. Also make sure there is 'conclusive evidence' that makes the system deduce that their system is one of few having been hit with this isolationism, and that the rest of the galaxy is working on fixing it. When the warships arrive to burn down anything higher than a tinshed for shelter, the systems are going to be totally unprepared and will quickly succomb. Especially if they then get propaganda that they are the last system to get rounded up and everyone else have already submitted/succombed.

Modifié par SalsaDMA, 05 mars 2011 - 05:48 .

[armass]

SalsaDMA wrote...

armass wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

armass wrote...

Short answer: No

Number wise we cant hold the galaxy as ransom. Not anywhere near. Even with superior reaper tech, rebels, meaning the united alien populace and human dissidant groups who oppose space fascist empire, could reverse engineer it at some point and take the new "empire" over. Every fascist galactic empire gets its rebel alliance.

Federation with lots of species has a much more success rate than an empire dominated by one species.

If the base can be used to research enough into relays to be able to control them, control could be quite easily established with control of the citadel. Kinda hard for the other races to do anything if they only got non-relay means of transportation while the humans can zoom all over the galaxy. Especially given the human doctrine in space warfare as described in the codex.

In this case, human dominance would be a foregone conclusion for quite a while, possible forever as the other races wouldn't be able to physically do anything against it. Heck, even opening up new relays to new areas would be safer and allow more expansion into uncharted territory faster, allowing for a bigger resource pile to grab from. The need to build up an infrastructure to support such a big empire would be the biggest problem, not what other races would want to think of doing.

Edit: Almost forgot: The relays control the flow of information too, so basicly controlling the relays as an empire means you could cut off 'dissendants' from being able to receive/broadcast communications. How are you going to stage a galacticwide rebeliion when you can't even communicate outside your system?

True controlling the mass relays would be a win ticket, however, since protheans at one point unlocked the secret of mass relays, what prevents other species from doing it, in secret of course?

Information is power. Despots in the past and present have already shown that one of the ways to keep power is to limit the ability of controlled subjects to research/read and even destroy past owrks that could help with any form of enlightment. If you want to be brutal enough about it, you could do the reaper 'thing', seize control of the relays, sweep through the systems one by one and make sure there isn't anything left that isn't raw resource harvesting for your 'grand' empire, and brutally smack down on anything that even smells like research or sharing of knowledge. Force Illitaracy unto the subjects.

At that point we would stop being human beings and start being more like reapers or monsters. Normal humans citizens wouldnt stand for it. Not if they have any hearts or souls, and i belive in goodness in humanity. They would rebel.

Modifié par armass, 05 mars 2011 - 05:46 .

[Mindr]

@ armass

I think we have several examples in history that show we can be more monsters than humans at times, my friend.