63 réponses à ce sujet

[armass]

Mindr wrote...

@ armass

I think we have several examples in history that show we can be more monsters than humans at times, my friend.

leaders yes, normal people.... i dont think so. Not in majority. I belive in goodness of humanity, and I see it in everyday life here. You see immoral things happening and people will stand up and protest.

Modifié par armass, 05 mars 2011 - 05:52 .

[Bloggers99]

We'd collapse like a flan in an oven. I hope that the allies you gather to stop the Reapers turn on Humanity if you went Ren. I want my RenShep to die in a fire for some of the things he's done.

[SalsaDMA]

Yeah. I never said it would be a nice place to live in. I certainly wouldn't want to live in a wolrd like that, but theoretically it could be possible to happen with the right set of events.

[SalsaDMA]

armass wrote...

Mindr wrote...

@ armass

I think we have several examples in history that show we can be more monsters than humans at times, my friend.

leaders yes, normal people.... i dont think so. Not in majority.

The aliens wouldn't be the only ones that would get selective propaganda.

Stage enough incidents with aliens doing terroist acts or the like, with evidence of an anti-human emotion behind it all from all aliens (which shouldn't be too hard if you collect 'targets' from systems that have been totally ravaged by the empire to do the anti-human acts of 'violence and depravicy'), and xenophobia could be thriving.

[XyleJKH]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Ty2011 wrote...

It's possible but I don't think it leads down a good path. We need unity not supremacy.

yeah, because the Council was doing such a great job at dooming the galaxy.

I think you are missing the point here. Let's just assume, for a minute, that the Council is the United Nations, in which the United States (lets say the Turians), have a very large influence on. The Asari could be any other nation and the Solarians, well its irrelavant for this argument.
THe UN has been in "power" for a while, so has the Council. All of a sudden a huge threat takes the fight to home. Let's say humanity is China (just bear with me). Humanity rises up during the threat, takes control and boom... human led Council. Ok so the nations are still a bit blurry at what happened. The geth were blamed for the attack, not the reapers. But if humanity begins only looking after their own interests uprisings will occur. Even with advanced tech, humanity is still outnumbered.

[Mindr]

armass wrote...

Mindr wrote...

@ armass

I think we have several examples in history that show we can be more monsters than humans at times, my friend.

leaders yes, normal people.... i dont think so. Not in majority.

But then again, aren't we the same if we follow those leaders, be it because of ignorance or denial or simply because we happen to agree with them? Aren't we the ones that give them power?

Remember, those that have power will do everything to keep that power, and trying to hide facts that would anger the people under them is a common practice.

[Bloggers99]

Just to address the whole, leaders can be monsters but normal people aren't, survival against massive genocidal aliens derails human nature. Psychologically, most people will be broken after something along those lines. Not too hard to convince the shattered remnants of humanity that the Turians (Asari, Salarians) are out to get them while they're weak.

That aside, we'd still fail. Miserably.

[armass]

Mindr wrote...

armass wrote...

Mindr wrote...

@ armass

I think we have several examples in history that show we can be more monsters than humans at times, my friend.

leaders yes, normal people.... i dont think so. Not in majority.

But then again, aren't we the same if we follow those leaders, be it because of ignorance or denial or simply because we happen to agree with them? Aren't we the ones that give them power?

Remember, those that have power will do everything to keep that power, and trying to hide facts that would anger the people under them is a common practice.

I think we would need another french revolution there hehe.

[ScipioPL]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Ty2011 wrote...

It's possible but I don't think it leads down a good path. We need unity not supremacy.

yeah, because the Council was doing such a great job at dooming the galaxy.

That's why I hope that humans will create different organisation after the war. Together with races which are more willing to cooperate. What would you say if after the ME 3 there would be a cold war between the old council and Human-Krogan-Quarian/Geth alliance?

[Mindr]

Bloggers99 wrote...

Just to address the whole, leaders can be monsters but normal people aren't, survival against massive genocidal aliens derails human nature. Psychologically, most people will be broken after something along those lines. Not too hard to convince the shattered remnants of humanity that the Turians (Asari, Salarians) are out to get them while they're weak.

QFT

[armass]

This is why i always blow up the collector base. Like Shepard said "no matter what kind of technology we find, it's not worth it."

Yes. It's not worth it in the end.

[XyleJKH]

XyleJKH wrote...

Pwener2313 wrote...

Ty2011 wrote...

It's possible but I don't think it leads down a good path. We need unity not supremacy.

yeah, because the Council was doing such a great job at dooming the galaxy.

I think you are missing the point here. Let's just assume, for a minute, that the Council is the United Nations, in which the United States (lets say the Turians), have a very large influence on. The Asari could be any other nation and the Solarians, well its irrelavant for this argument.
THe UN has been in "power" for a while, so has the Council. All of a sudden a huge threat takes the fight to home. Let's say humanity is China (just bear with me). Humanity rises up during the threat, takes control and boom... human led Council. Ok so the nations are still a bit blurry at what happened. The geth were blamed for the attack, not the reapers. But if humanity begins only looking after their own interests uprisings will occur. Even with advanced tech, humanity is still outnumbered.

so.. nothing then

[Mindr]

ScipioPL wrote...

That's why I hope that humans will create different organisation after the war. Together with races which are more willing to cooperate. What would you say if after the ME 3 there would be a cold war between the old council and Human-Krogan-Quarian/Geth alliance?

I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but in case you are not, I must say that I find this highly unlikely, since both the Krogan and the Quarians are among the least dependable allies out there.

Krogan don't even care for their own people, much less for their allies. To make a comparison, the Krogan to the Council races is what carpet bombing is to a homing missile. Once you let them loose, they'll just try to kill anything that moves rather than focus on any kind of objective (other than the classic "kill them all!" kind of course.)

The Quarians, on the other hand, are the exact opossite of the Krogan. Remember, those spaceships are all they have, and although they have the most massive fleet of all the organics, most of them are old and/or in a bad condition, to put it mildly. Remember, all space encounters for Quarians would be putting their home at stake, and I'm sure they would think twice or thrice before endagering it.

And if you think the ones above are bad, think about what siding with synthetics against organics would mean for Humanity. They had a bad rep before the whole Saren deal; now, after the massive attacks by synthetics ( Reapers), geth would be shot on sight, no questions asked. That would mean open hunting season for all organics friendly to them as well.

[ScipioPL]

I would completely agree with you but we are talking about third part of the game. Its to late for me to start expecting logic from the ME universe.

Modifié par ScipioPL, 05 mars 2011 - 06:53 .

[ScipioPL]

<please delete this post>

Modifié par ScipioPL, 05 mars 2011 - 06:43 .

[88mphSlayer]

XyleJKH wrote...

Pwener2313 wrote...

Ty2011 wrote...

It's possible but I don't think it leads down a good path. We need unity not supremacy.

yeah, because the Council was doing such a great job at dooming the galaxy.

I think you are missing the point here. Let's just assume, for a minute, that the Council is the United Nations, in which the United States (lets say the Turians), have a very large influence on. The Asari could be any other nation and the Solarians, well its irrelavant for this argument.
THe UN has been in "power" for a while, so has the Council. All of a sudden a huge threat takes the fight to home. Let's say humanity is China (just bear with me). Humanity rises up during the threat, takes control and boom... human led Council. Ok so the nations are still a bit blurry at what happened. The geth were blamed for the attack, not the reapers. But if humanity begins only looking after their own interests uprisings will occur. Even with advanced tech, humanity is still outnumbered.

go back in time and the galaxy has already been through this once: the Rachni were the reaper threat at one point in time and the emerging Krogans were the humans capable of quelling the threat, the Krogans seeked to expand after the war and got genophaged as their gift for protecting the galaxy

a renegade path where Cerberus uses indoctrination technology to prevent another genophage against humanity could be conceived of as a defensive move than one of human dominance alone, after all remember what Ashley says in the first game: sure they might feel we're useful now but what happens after the war is over and we continue expanding throughout the galaxy? if we win the war paragon style are we just going to hand over our self-determination keys and start doing a China and regulate our own population growth?

[Dexi]

Sooooo..... Save the Council but keep the base intact?

[Mindr]

88mphSlayer wrote...


go back in time and the galaxy has already been through this once: the Rachni were the reaper threat at one point in time and the emerging Krogans were the humans capable of quelling the threat, the Krogans seeked to expand after the war and got genophaged as their gift for protecting the galaxy

a renegade path where Cerberus uses indoctrination technology to prevent another genophage against humanity could be conceived of as a defensive move than one of human dominance alone, after all remember what Ashley says in the first game: sure they might feel we're useful now but what happens after the war is over and we continue expanding throughout the galaxy? if we win the war paragon style are we just going to hand over our self-determination keys and start doing a China and regulate our own population growth?

Well, the difference is that Krogan merely replaced the Rachni threat, as they did occupy an asari planet and refused to leave it. Also, keep in mind that the Krogan's numbers increase much faster than those of the humans and the turians, as they live centuries rather than decades, and contrary to the asari, they mature faster and keep reproducing their whole lives as part of their nature.

The way I see it, it wasn't the Council's fault that Krogan decided to go rogue and conquer everything they could get their hands on, it was the Krogans' choice to betray the other races' trust. Had the genophage not been created, either the Krogan would be extinct or the Council would have been destroyed and humanity would have to face the Sole Conquerors of the Galaxy all on their own...Fun times!

Could you imagine yourself as a human citizen at the time for a bit? Would you really prefer your leaders to enslave all other life in the galaxy so that you can have two children instead of one? Would you not wonder if those with the power to rob others of free will could do the same to you if you did not obey their exact wishes?

And if you didn't wonder any of that and find yourself in complete agreement with your leader, could it be that you have already been affected?

Edit: Spelling:whistle:

Modifié par Mindr, 05 mars 2011 - 07:48 .

[Geth_Prime]

I hate any human in Mass Effect who wants 'human dominance' in the galaxy. They've only been using Mass Relays for 30 years and already they seem to think they deserve more power than the asari. One annoying thing about ME2 was one of Shepard's "Paragon" lines at the end of the game. The Illusive Man says the base, if you destroyed it, would have secured human dominance in the galaxy. The Paragon reply is "Human dominance, or just Cerberus?". So basically Shepard wants human dominance whether you like it or not, because the Renegade options aren't any better. I didn't like that. What the aliens say about humanity is right - they're bullies.

[Naughty Bear]

Mindr wrote...

@ armass

I think we have several examples in history that show we can be more monsters than humans at times, my friend.

Can i have an example please?

[Aurgelmir]

Humanity is a species that was forged in the fires of war, we're good at it. Like Shephard said, our carriers are an example of how our military can think outside the box, both the Normandys are another example of that.

Our fleet is a significant threat to the Turians, we also control the citadel and Cerberus have the resources and the will to do whatever it takes. Do we have the mandate? perhaps not, but great truly great Empires rarely do.

[Bloggers99]

Naughty Bear wrote...

Mindr wrote...

@ armass

I think we have several examples in history that show we can be more monsters than humans at times, my friend.

Can i have an example please?

Gladly
http://en.wikipedia....centration_camp
http://en.wikipedia....ma_and_Nagasaki
http://en.wikipedia...._Jerusalem_(70)

Modifié par Bloggers99, 05 mars 2011 - 08:28 .

[armass]

Exactly, even if humans would conquer the galaxy, you think a normal citizen would benefit from this kind of tyranny? How? The elite who did this would want to rule over us too, just like everyone else, only plus side we would have is we are not alien. Still i doubt we would get the fruits of benefit in this case, this can be easily seen even today as 1% of people owns 90% of wealth. They dont give a damn about the poor and suffering and just let them rot, even if it is their own citizens.

Even at 22nd century this seems to be true since the gap between rich and poor still broadens and earth is packed with slums. Anoleis even comments on this and says his own salarian colonies are clean and pure.

Modifié par armass, 05 mars 2011 - 08:41 .