63 réponses à ce sujet

[armass]

Geth_Prime wrote...

I hate any human in Mass Effect who wants 'human dominance' in the galaxy. They've only been using Mass Relays for 30 years and already they seem to think they deserve more power than the asari. One annoying thing about ME2 was one of Shepard's "Paragon" lines at the end of the game. The Illusive Man says the base, if you destroyed it, would have secured human dominance in the galaxy. The Paragon reply is "Human dominance, or just Cerberus?". So basically Shepard wants human dominance whether you like it or not, because the Renegade options aren't any better. I didn't like that. What the aliens say about humanity is right - they're bullies.

Paragon Shepard offers great concern about human power taking, just take the paragon choice after killing the council or questioning cerberus.

[aliswann10]

I don't think that line implies Shepard wants human dominance. Shepard was just asking the Illusive Man a rhetorical question: Is it really human dominance the Illusive Man is after, or is it Ceberus dominance that the Illusive Man really wants? I thought that was obvious but I guess you didn't understand that exchange.

[armass]

aliswann10 wrote...

I don't think that line implies Shepard wants human dominance. Shepard was just asking the Illusive Man a rhetorical question: Is it really human dominance the Illusive Man is after, or is it Ceberus dominance that the Illusive Man really wants? I thought that was obvious but I guess you didn't understand that exchange.

TIM probably wants to be the main dictator in his new order. Men like him usually do.

[88mphSlayer]

Mindr wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...


go back in time and the galaxy has already been through this once: the Rachni were the reaper threat at one point in time and the emerging Krogans were the humans capable of quelling the threat, the Krogans seeked to expand after the war and got genophaged as their gift for protecting the galaxy

a renegade path where Cerberus uses indoctrination technology to prevent another genophage against humanity could be conceived of as a defensive move than one of human dominance alone, after all remember what Ashley says in the first game: sure they might feel we're useful now but what happens after the war is over and we continue expanding throughout the galaxy? if we win the war paragon style are we just going to hand over our self-determination keys and start doing a China and regulate our own population growth?

Well, the difference is that Krogan merely replaced the Rachni threat, as they did occupy an asari planet and refused to leave it. Also, keep in mind that the Krogan's numbers increase much faster than those of the humans and the turians, as they live centuries rather than decades, and contrary to the asari, they mature faster and keep reproducing their whole lives as part of their nature.

The way I see it, it wasn't the Council's fault that Krogan decided to go rogue and conquer everything they could get their hands on, it was the Krogans' choice to betray the other races' trust. Had the genophage not been created, either the Krogan would be extinct or the Council would have been destroyed and humanity would have to face the Sole Conquerors of the Galaxy all on their own...Fun times!

Could you imagine yourself as a human citizen at the time for a bit? Would you really prefer your leaders to enslave all other life in the galaxy so that you can have two children instead of one? Would you not wonder if those with the power to rob others of free will could do the same to you if you did not obey their exact wishes?

And if you didn't wonder any of that and find yourself in complete agreement with your leader, could it be that you have already been affected?

Edit: Spelling:whistle:

well to use a historical example: WW2, Americans views of the war, and the Manhatten Project

in a sense the Atomic Bomb was a permanent addition to the country's defense, it would forever stop any aggression against us in the future and pretty much guaranteed our status as superpower and... how many Americans were against that? as far as most knew all it did was end the war, only a few had second thoughts and aided soviet spies with information leaks

now replace WW2 with the reaper invasion, Americans with humans, and the Manhatten Project with the collector base... as soon as everybody sees those reapers destroying millions of people a day? they won't need indoctrination to support any possible future protections

maybe we get a KOTOR ending where we truly do dominate all life, then again maybe Cerberus is not as secretive as they wish (the shadow broker would have no problems) and we end up with a completely different galactic landscape, a cold war as it were

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 05 mars 2011 - 10:17 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

No, it is not possible.

[Mindr]

88mphSlayer wrote...


well to use a historical example: WW2, Americans views of the war, and the Manhatten Project

in a sense the Atomic Bomb was a permanent addition to the country's defense, it would forever stop any aggression against us in the future and pretty much guaranteed our status as superpower and... how many Americans were against that? as far as most knew all it did was end the war, only a few had second thoughts and aided soviet spies with information leaks

now replace WW2 with the reaper invasion, Americans with humans, and the Manhatten Project with the collector base... as soon as everybody sees those reapers destroying millions of people a day? they won't need indoctrination to support any possible future protections

maybe we get a KOTOR ending where we truly do dominate all life, then again maybe Cerberus is not as secretive as they wish (the shadow broker would have no problems) and we end up with a completely different galactic landscape, a cold war as it were

To be honest, this is the exact analogy I had in my mind when I made my post and when I looked past the game's setting when I got deep into the story, however, following your logic, the atomic bomb is the indoctrination's equivalent, is it not? 

I am not American myself, so I don't have the slightest idea about how many were against it or in favour of it. But I can tell you this: Allies obtained through mutual views and respect are much more valuable than the ones made out of fear of their lives if they don't go down that road.

If humanity stoops so low as to use the Reaper methods/tech to secure their position as the sole dominators of the galaxy, are they really any better than the Reapers or just the same to the rest of the organics in the galaxy?

[Xivai]

Look at the Reapers. You fools think you can do better? Hahahahahah! HAHAHAHAHAHA! Humanity is a living embodiment of rebellion by the end of the series. Nothing ever ends.

[SalsaDMA]

Bloggers99 wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

Mindr wrote...

@ armass

I think we have several examples in history that show we can be more monsters than humans at times, my friend.

Can i have an example please?

Gladly
http://en.wikipedia....centration_camp
http://en.wikipedia....ma_and_Nagasaki
http://en.wikipedia...._Jerusalem_(70)

Basicly you could just have pointed to almost any war or civil war in the history. Most of that stuff is pretty grim when you dig into it. As long as you can seperate people into 'them' and 'us' via some way (ethniticity, religion, ideoligy, whatever-really) people can convince themselves to perform some really nefarious deeds on other people.

Personally I like the movie 'Hotel Rwanda' for its way of illustrating the meaningless of this kind of horror.

[Kakistos_]

Some of the choices of ME1 and ME2 seem to be heading in that direction but realistically no. Even with a human dominated Council(which realistically I don't think would ever happen) and advanced Reaper tech, humans would be vastly outnumbered and outgunned. That probably wouldn't even matter as more than a few species and individuals wouldn't have qualms about preemptive strikes against humanity as a whole or the instigators. Shepard would be assasinated on his/her own ship and humans would face the same fate as the Rachni and Krogan.

[oldag07]

First rule of world (galactic) domination, give the people what they want! While the renegade shepard might have gained some power for humanity, the paragon shepard in the long run will give more lasting power to humanity. Especially after the reapers ravage Earth as seen in the ME3 trailer.

[lovgreno]

In a century or so maybe (longer with the renegade choices as bullies are usualy losers in the longer run). But many things, the all human Council for example, suggests that humanity isn't ready to play with the big boys yet.

[Mikeyzs94]

you humans are all racist

[Black Raptor]

N-N-N-NECRO'ed!!!!!!!1