285 réponses à ce sujet

[Maelora]

mynameisdanza wrote...
So, for clarification, the characters don't tell you that they're attracted to both sexes unless you flirt with them as a s/s?

No, they just don't flirt with YOU.

One of them has a same-sex lover in the game (it's part of a big plot), so no, the bisexuals aren't hidden just to proect your sensibilities.  They're out and they're proud (at least two of them anyway) and it's just tough cookies.

[Maelora]

Tielis wrote...
See, I don't get this.  Bisexuality is somehow "better" than homosexuality?  That's just craziness.
It's not right to settle for crumbs.

No, it's not right, not at all.  Bioware have been tossing us crumbs for years. 

But crumbs are better than no crumbs.

'Bi' is all we're gonna get.  So I suck it up anyway.

For what it's worth I agree with you.  And you know, I've faced bi-phobia in the lesbian community. A lot of gay women don't trust girls who've gone out with guys (even though that was long ago for me).  So I know where you're coming from and I don't think you're homophobic.

But for $$$$ reasons, David Gaider (who is, I think, a friend to the gay fans) has said they won't be doing purely gay LIs.
 
So bi is the best we get.

But you know what? In my playthroughs, Leliana isn't bi.  She never mentions being attracted to men, unless you play a male Warden. So for my games, she's the purely-lesbian LI. 

(harder do so for Zev, alas, because he says he prefers women.... which sucks).  

Modifié par Maelora, 05 mars 2011 - 08:39 .

[Never]

So its only 2 of them, like Zev and Leliana in Origins? I'm just asking so people don't get the wrong idea, and that all 4 of them are bi in everyone's game.

[Arppis]

The bisexuality is there propably because of the same reason you can choose your character's appearance and sex. It's there because every person has diffirent interests and peferences. My friend is gay and he would have loved to romance Alistair, but alas he couldn't.

It just gives people more choices, and that should be a good thing. Personaly, I wouldn't care much if there wasn't any romances to be had in the game, but they are always fun little side things in the game.

[Maelora]

mynameisdanza wrote...
So its only 2 of them, like Zev and Leliana in Origins? I'm just asking so people don't get the wrong idea, and that all 4 of them are bi in everyone's game.

To my knowledge. Fenris and Merrill don't discuss their sexuality.  With Anders and Izzy, it's pretty obvious (Izzy hits on you regardless, Anders has a male NPC love-interest).

[Tielis]

mynameisdanza wrote...

So its only 2 of them, like Zev and Leliana in Origins? I'm just asking so people don't get the wrong idea, and that all 4 of them are bi in everyone's game.

This is what we don't know for sure.

If the NPC comes on to your character, regardless of your character's sex, and never mentions that he/she is attracted to the other one (unless it's part of a plotline), well, that would be another way of handling it without stepping on anyone's toes.  And this is what I'm hoping for.

[wulfsturm]

Maelora wrote...

mynameisdanza wrote...
So its only 2 of them, like Zev and Leliana in Origins? I'm just asking so people don't get the wrong idea, and that all 4 of them are bi in everyone's game.

To my knowledge. Fenris and Merrill don't discuss their sexuality.  With Anders and Izzy, it's pretty obvious (Izzy hits on you regardless, Anders has a male NPC love-interest).

Ugh, spoilerz.

[mesmerizedish]

mynameisdanza wrote...

So its only 2 of them, like Zev and Leliana in Origins? I'm just asking so people don't get the wrong idea, and that all 4 of them are bi in everyone's game.

I'll put this in spoiler tags, in case some people don't want to know yet:

Isabela and Anders are bisexual. Period. Isabela obviously is; we know this from Origins. During Anders's recruitment quest, we help him meet another mage, Karl, and we find out he's been made tranquil. Karl and Anders were lovers.

The other two are more "Hawkesexual." I doubt either references any sexual history all that much, and go for Hawke regardless of gender, but without being "canonically bi." They could just as well be gay in your game if you romance them s/s.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 05 mars 2011 - 08:43 .

[Never]

I see. Thanks for the responses. I'm all for everyone getting to be with their first choice, just wanted to know how BW was handling it.

[Isaidlunch]

The Water God wrote...

Yes Orlais and Antiva are alot more open minded when it comes to sexual tastes. Thus Leliana and Zevran have a good reason for being bi. I perfer that the characters background would reflect on the characters themselves.

I'm not sure I understand this line of reasoning. Characters don't need any reason at all for being bisexual other than being born that way. Their background doesn't have to have anything to do with it.

[wulfsturm]

Kazanth wrote...
I'm not sure I understand this line of reasoning. Characters don't need any reason at all for being bisexual other than being born that way. Their background doesn't have to have anything to do with it.

Eh? How many Catholic Christian homosexuals do you know?

Modifié par wulfsturm, 05 mars 2011 - 08:49 .

[Maelora]

Country of origin doesn't affect their sexuality, but it does affect how open they are about it.

[Tielis]

Kazanth wrote...

The Water God wrote...

Yes Orlais and Antiva are alot more open minded when it comes to sexual tastes. Thus Leliana and Zevran have a good reason for being bi. I perfer that the characters background would reflect on the characters themselves.

I'm not sure I understand this line of reasoning. Characters don't need any reason at all for being bisexual other than being born that way. Their background doesn't have to have anything to do with it.

Agreed.  One could even argue that Zevran was forced into it.  We simply don't know.

[Maelora]

wulfsturm wrote...
Eh? How many Catholic Christian homosexuals do you know?

Andrew Sullivan?

[snackrat]

I know I'm being way too clincial and analytical about this, but I like
the idea of them being bi. If you wanted to be straight, you had two
choices. If you want to be gay (or perhaps just bi with a minor
preference, whatever) you only had the one. I found Zevran incredibly
creepy and while he is a very deep and emotional character, you have to
put up with him being creepy for ages first. I understand, it's his
background coming through, but say my character isn't willing to put up
with it? ...and Leliana - boring as hell. 'Storyteller bard'?
Puh-lease... Alistair (telling of the first blight) and Wynne
especially, told much more engaging stories. Where Wynne says "As the sun burst through the
clouds that boiled and churned in the dark sky above, it illuminated a
vast seething horde of darkspawn" Leliana would say "it was a
cloudy day, and there were a lot of darkspawn." And she mightn't even
tell us about the clouds, either...

Besides, the dialogue will
often be different for different genders (Zev+fem was very in-your-face,
whereas Zev+mal was more friends-turned-lovers) and I love testing out
game characters' reactions to different dialogue. Rather than the 'six'
romance options of the first, now we have 'eight'. Interesting things
developing here, that I shall truly enjoy testing.

....if the rumours are true, that is.

(*ahem* And yes, Fenris and Merril are probably Hawkesexual indeed.)

Modifié par Karsciyin, 05 mars 2011 - 08:55 .

[snackrat]

Double post, sorry. (Damn internet.)

Modifié par Karsciyin, 05 mars 2011 - 08:55 .

[wulfsturm]

Tielis wrote...

Agreed.  One could even argue that Zevran was forced into it.  We simply don't know.

One cannot be forced into being bisexual.

[Maelora]

Karsciyin wrote...
...if the rumours are true, that is.

I'm a complete Debbie Downer, trust me...

And I've seen enough evidence at this point.

It's multiple playthroughs, not just rumour.

However, I now see why BW didn't shout 'they're all bi' from the rooftops.   It seems to upset some people.

[Isaidlunch]

wulfsturm wrote...

Kazanth wrote...
I'm not sure
I understand this line of reasoning. Characters don't need any reason
at all for being bisexual other than being born that way. Their
background doesn't have to have anything to do with it.

Eh? How many Catholic Christian homosexuals do you know?

I know quite a few who were brought up in very strict Catholic families and ended up accepting their sexuality despite the environment they were brought up in. A person may hide and be discouraged from revealing their sexuality based on their background but it won't ever change their sexuality.

[wulfsturm]

Kazanth wrote...

I know quite a few who were brought up in very strict Catholic families and ended up accepting their sexuality despite the environment they were brought up in. A person may hide and be discouraged from revealing their sexuality based on their background but it won't ever change their sexuality.

That's not what I said though. I said (current) Catholic Christians, not "brought up in very strict Catholic families."

[Tielis]

Maelora wrote...

No, it's not right, not at all.  Bioware have been tossing us crumbs for years. 

But crumbs are better than no crumbs.

'Bi' is all we're gonna get.  So I suck it up anyway.

But for $$$$ reasons, David Gaider (who is, I think, a friend to the gay fans) has said they won't be doing purely gay LIs.
 
So bi is the best we get.

But you know what? In my playthroughs, Leliana isn't bi.  She never mentions being attracted to men, unless you play a male Warden. So for my games, she's the purely-lesbian LI. 

(harder do so for Zev, alas, because he says he prefers women.... which sucks).  

The best possible scenario would have been for Leliana to be either bi or gay or hetero depending on what setting we choose in the beginning.  Marjolaine didn't have to be sexual with Leliana for her to experience a deep love and betrayal.

The best possible scenario would have been for Zevran to mention that he prefers whatever sex your character is.  And even go so far as to make up a side storyline as to why he, as an exception, never had experience with the opposite of your choice.  (Or if you chose the bisexual option, hey, he went either way.)

All this would entail is a few lines to be variables instead of written only one way, and to have several versions of each characters' backstory.  Not really all that difficult for a writer of any talent to do.  We don't need to get into many hours of work here.  Just a few line changes here and there, akin to how the dialog changed whether you were a Mage, Dalish, etc.

It saddens me that, in order to move forward in one way, we apparently have to move backwards in another.  Neither homosexuals, nor bisexuals, nor heterosexuals should have their preference forced upon another for the sake of "this is all we get".

[Taleroth]

wulfsturm wrote...

Kazanth wrote...
I'm not sure I understand this line of reasoning. Characters don't need any reason at all for being bisexual other than being born that way. Their background doesn't have to have anything to do with it.

Eh? How many Catholic Christian homosexuals do you know?

You would be surprised.

[Carfax]

I'm with Tielis. My PC only romances the heterosexual options, and won't care to have any real romance with a bisexual character, so I'm hoping that Merill is only contextually bi, and not really written as bi.

If she is written as bi, then I will never buy another Dragon Age based game again, because it would be patently obvious that Bioware is trying to cram homosexuality down my throat.

Isabella will be a good one night stand for my PC, but thats it. She has too many tramp stamps that one......plus she's bi.

[Isaidlunch]

wulfsturm wrote...

Kazanth wrote...

I know quite a few who were brought up in very strict Catholic families and ended up accepting their sexuality despite the environment they were brought up in. A person may hide and be discouraged from revealing their sexuality based on their background but it won't ever change their sexuality.

That's not what I said though. I said (current) Catholic Christians, not "brought up in very strict Catholic families."

Then I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said before. My point before was that characters don't need a background like being born in Orlais to make them believable bisexuals. I didn't say that people don't pretend to be bisexual for whatever reasons.

Modifié par Kazanth, 05 mars 2011 - 09:05 .