1046 réponses à ce sujet

[DaggerFiend]

Templar seems most useful for tank. Stops spells and magic resistance. Reaver is good if you want to do more damage because of its passive, but I'm not sure how low a tank's health would get. If you're gonna be a high risk tank (losing HP left and right), then Reaver suits you well.

[Graunt]

Templar definitely, but Reaver as well, if only for the very first skill - which is INCREDIBLE for both SnS and Two-Handed, but practically required for a tank if you want that extra damage edge (a "good" tank shouldn't really be above 90% health most of the time anyway), especially in the higher difficulties.  

Massacre is also another "must have" talent for SnS Warriors who want to push damage, but I'm not sure if the prereqs for it are worthwhile for SnS, especially since you're probably already going to have at least 30% of your stamina rationed off to Bravery.

Modifié par Graunt, 08 mars 2011 - 04:10 .

[Graunt]

Double post.

Modifié par Graunt, 08 mars 2011 - 04:09 .

[Peter Thomas]

Graunt wrote...

Peter, if this has not already been answered: can you manually control an enslaved enemy, and if not, does Blood Spatter have FF?

They are uncontrollable allies, and their death explosion has FF.

[ArenCordial]

Wait why do we need strength as a mage? Didn't Bioware say they were going to give mages armor? Or is the champion armor it?

[Graunt]

Peter Thomas wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Peter, if this has not already been answered: can you manually control an enslaved enemy, and if not, does Blood Spatter have FF?

They are uncontrollable allies, and their death explosion has FF.

Thanks, that pretty much confirms my suspicion that this is yet another "stay away from" ability in Nightmare.  I could see applications for it, but most of them would require your group just standing around or at the very least the tank standing with the ranged, or a well placed Pull with the slave and a group.  Another is to simply control an already low health enemy that's not near the group.  I'd honestly rather just use a dedicated, controllable AOE.

Wait why do we need strength as a mage? Didn't Bioware say they were going to give mages armor? Or is the champion armor it?

If you're talking about the post that listed armor requirements, just group them with who you think they logically fit with.  Mages don't have STR requirements, they have MAG + WIL requirements.  Their best weapon requires 42 MAG, and the armor is 32 MAG + 32 WIL.

And for those freaking out about the requiremets, keep in mind that those are on armors that are the "multipurpose, and has a little of everything".  There are plenty of, more specialized and focused lower armors that may be just as good/better for your build.

*Edit - again, this is in regards to UNIQUE armor, not randomly generated or non class specific gear.  Mages do not require STR for their UNIQUE gear.

Modifié par Graunt, 08 mars 2011 - 04:27 .

[Peter Thomas]

T3hAnubis wrote...

Graunt/Peter, can Rogues/Mages wear Heavy Armor (and Medium Armor for Mages) if they meet the requirements?

Yes.

[Adhin]

That's what I'm doing Firescue42, though I'm going 2H instead of SnB (but that's not important). Berserk has some useful stuff, just getteing the last passive for instance is nice. Berserk its self, no talents, is also nice for a tank. 10 Stamina regeneration (or 0.25% per second, 1% per 4 seconds) is a useful thing in general.

That said none of its talents actually directly translate into better tanking. I'd probably refrain from using Barrage to often as it cuts into your damage resistance. But base Rage would be useful vs adds if you can sustain your stamina.

Ultimately I think Reaver first 2 talents, Blood Frenzy and Devour are better for tanks. That combination is pretty solid overall, as when your low on HP your %dmg skyrockets from the passive, which should heavily boost Devours damage for a solid heal. Just being at 50% will double it. And if you use Sacrifical Frenzy first, it'll double Reaver, making 50% hp 200% dmg boost. Pretty crazy.

If you think about that in a stacking sense, say your at 50% hp and Devour is (normally at 100% hp) 100 dmg. If the target is Disoriented (and you have Devour upgraded). Basically if the target is Disoriented and you activate Sacrificial Frenzy first, your looking at something like 600 damage output vs 100 base for Devour.

I'm seriously going to have to do that, I can see it 'really' stacking up heavily and just being a full heal for the Reaver under the right conditions. But to your question, like I said above Berserker works good but its purely damage output, nothing specifically to help with tanking. So... I dunno, good for mooks, not so much if your having issues tanking and need stamina.

And whatever you do, don't mix Shield Defense and Berserk at the same time. That'll just cause some issues. You basically lose damage (-25%) and only attack 1 target. Which will hamper Berserk heavily while still draining your stamina heavily due to Berserk. Just not worth it in that scenario. I'd swap between the 2 depending on whats going on.

[Sabresandiego]

Adhin wrote...

That's what I'm doing Firescue42, though I'm going 2H instead of SnB (but that's not important). Berserk has some useful stuff, just getteing the last passive for instance is nice. Berserk its self, no talents, is also nice for a tank. 10 Stamina regeneration (or 0.25% per second, 1% per 4 seconds) is a useful thing in general.

That said none of its talents actually directly translate into better tanking. I'd probably refrain from using Barrage to often as it cuts into your damage resistance. But base Rage would be useful vs adds if you can sustain your stamina.

Ultimately I think Reaver first 2 talents, Blood Frenzy and Devour are better for tanks. That combination is pretty solid overall, as when your low on HP your %dmg skyrockets from the passive, which should heavily boost Devours damage for a solid heal. Just being at 50% will double it. And if you use Sacrifical Frenzy first, it'll double Reaver, making 50% hp 200% dmg boost. Pretty crazy.

If you think about that in a stacking sense, say your at 50% hp and Devour is (normally at 100% hp) 100 dmg. If the target is Disoriented (and you have Devour upgraded). Basically if the target is Disoriented and you activate Sacrificial Frenzy first, your looking at something like 600 damage output vs 100 base for Devour.

I'm seriously going to have to do that, I can see it 'really' stacking up heavily and just being a full heal for the Reaver under the right conditions. But to your question, like I said above Berserker works good but its purely damage output, nothing specifically to help with tanking. So... I dunno, good for mooks, not so much if your having issues tanking and need stamina.

And whatever you do, don't mix Shield Defense and Berserk at the same time. That'll just cause some issues. You basically lose damage (-25%) and only attack 1 target. Which will hamper Berserk heavily while still draining your stamina heavily due to Berserk. Just not worth it in that scenario. I'd swap between the 2 depending on whats going on.

Adhin at 50% health, devour would do 150% damage from blood frenzy unless you use sacrificial frenzy as well which would make it 200%. That being said, does a 200% devour heal its equivalent in health?

Edit: I see that you stated what I said in your post above. The question still stands, does devour always return the damage it causes in health, even if the damage is boosted by abilities like cleave/claymore and blood frenzy?

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 08 mars 2011 - 04:27 .

[Adhin]

YUP Peter JUST responded to your and my earlier question. Basically the health is always the same, even if armor/resistance mitigates the damage down. And, all %based dmg stuff boosts the healing amount the same!

Imma love my some Devourin'!

-edit-
So basically in my crazy stacked situational example of 600 Damage/Health. Say monster has 80% Armor. You'd do 120 dmg, but still heal 600!


-double-edit-
Ahh and your right its 200%, not +200%. So...well yeah. Still, super awesome. Looks like I'll be using Sacrificial Frenzy just before I use Devour just to spike the heal.

Modifié par Adhin, 08 mars 2011 - 04:41 .

[Graunt]

Adhin wrote...

YUP Peter JUST responded to your and my earlier question. Basically the health is always the same, even if armor/resistance mitigates the damage down. And, all %based dmg stuff boosts the healing amount the same!

Imma love my some Devourin'!

-edit-
So basically in my crazy stacked situational example of 600 Damage/Health. Say monster has 80% Armor. You'd do 120 dmg, but still heal 600!

Oh hmm, so it's basically always like this then?  You toss a Devour, and your healing is factored in before the damage/mitigation happens?  While that certainly makes the heal worthwhile, it also seems to have a negative effect on overall damage when you factor Blood Frenzy.  I also don't really see the point of a 600 health heal either, but I guess that was just an exaggerated example.

Modifié par Graunt, 08 mars 2011 - 04:43 .

[Adhin]

Bingo, so even if they had -50% damage resist, it would still be the HP. Though %dmg and crits and all that still factor in as thats applied before its put to the monster. So say your at low HP, use sacrificial frenzy, the monster has Death Hex (for auto-crits), and its disoriented. That's gadda be a full heal.

Looks like it's gonna be nice as a stack-effect kinda thing at least, no wonder it has a 120 cooldown. i KNEW it had to have that for some reason, ya know?

-edit-
Yeah 600 was just my absurd example. I always use 100 or 50 or some simple round number to show math. Either way it does go to show how you can stack up %dmg and such to skyrocket the healing part of the ability, and not worry about any mitigation the target may have.

betcha %heal items actually work this time around too, probably help that ability out more so. Basically I want it as a self-full heal and it looks like, given proper stacking, i can use it as that.

Modifié par Adhin, 08 mars 2011 - 04:45 .

[Graunt]

Adhin wrote...
Looks like it's gonna be nice as a stack-effect kinda thing at least, no wonder it has a 120 cooldown. i KNEW it had to have that for some reason, ya know?

Yes, I did know it was obviously going to work at least in the way I assumed it did (especially because of the duration), except in this case it's a bit better.  Depending on what you're doing, upgrading it to the 20s cooldown would probably be pretty sick.

Modifié par Graunt, 08 mars 2011 - 04:47 .

[Adhin]

-20s, still 100 second cooldown. Just slightly over a minute and a half 

Modifié par Adhin, 08 mars 2011 - 04:47 .

[Graunt]

Adhin wrote...

-20s, still 100 second cooldown. Just slightly over a minute and a half 

Uh yeah, dunno what I was thinking other than it was reduced to 20s for being the last Reaver ability.  Kind of like I thought Fist of the Maker was only single target until earlier today.

That just makes it go to an emergency heal (outside of Last Push scenarios) I would think or for some long range need.

Modifié par Graunt, 08 mars 2011 - 04:55 .

[Adhin]

Well that's probably some kinda mind-lapse due to Stone Fist being single target. As for devour I'm going to try and write out a more... reasonable, less stacked use of it. Just based off Blood Frenzy at say, 30% hp, No disorient or Death Hex. I'm sure upgraded it'll do over 100 dmg by 20 but say lvl 10 I know mighty blow is more like 112 (no upgrades) at that point so Devour would 'probably' be something like 40? Sounds about right comparatively.

40 base dmg, at 170% would be 68 damage. Sacrificial Frenzy Prior would be 96 about? I mean the '170%' should really just be +70%. So Sacrificial Frenzy would be 'up to 300% (as its doubling the +100%).

At lvl 10 that'd not really a full heal, at about 250 maxhp, you'd be at 75 prior (30%). Put you at 171 hp, or just less then 70%. That's not to bad actually, 40-50% heal around lvl 10 (when you can have all 3). That sounds about right, but bit more stacking and it can be a full, just have to combo it really.

[Zhel_Ryn]

Don't forget Disorient in that level 10 example. I can see saving an upgraded Pinning Shot just for the occasion!

Come on 3 hours! Go faster!

[Adhin]

Yeah was trying to look at it from a non-CCC perspective as a quick one. Once you toss the upgrades in, and disorient...yeaaaah. Starts to get a bit scary. If you actually could get it (with all upgrades) to 100 dmg by lvl 20. Just disorienting it (with out Sacrificial Frenzy) at 50% hp would basically be 350 hp, 400 with Sacrificial.

And I mean, at that point right? Might as well make sure your damn well near death cause its going to fill you up if there disoriented. I figure 30% hp would be a good point to start up the combo. Maybe get Merrill to Barrier at 25% hp, and when the orb pops up, disorient and devour up some HP.

Modifié par Adhin, 08 mars 2011 - 05:16 .

[Lacan2]

Reaver looks godly. You're always going to be damaged in battle as a 2H warrior, and the bonus will be sitting at around 30-50% for much of that time. That's huge when combined with stuff like Whirlwind.

[Adhin]

Yeah and thats the first point. Even if your playing a basic SnB Tank, just taking that 1 point into that passive and getting the 5% all dmg boost? totally worth it. There seriously isn't a single warrior build who can't make use of that Passive.

Modifié par Adhin, 08 mars 2011 - 05:25 .

[Graunt]

Adhin wrote...

Well that's probably some kinda mind-lapse due to Stone Fist being single target.

Maybe, but I honestly never saw the "6m" on it until someone was talking about various AOE spells.

Reaver looks godly. You're always going to be damaged in battle as a 2H
warrior, and the bonus will be sitting at around 30-50% for much of that
time. That's huge when combined with stuff like Whirlwind.

Blood Frenzy (say, at 50% after making it doubly effective with it's upgrade) + Cleave (100% dmg for 15s after upgrade) + Fervor (30% haste) + Barrage (50% haste) + Adrenaline x 4. 

Then Whirlwind, Mighty Blow, Second Wind, Last Push, Whirlwind, Adrenaline refresh, Cleave refresh, Mighty Blow, Scythe...(not the exact optimal order, but you get the point).

Modifié par Graunt, 08 mars 2011 - 05:34 .

[Zhel_Ryn]

Add to that 1-2 Heals/Barriers, plus Stonewall every 15/10 seconds...That's one beastly tank!

Then of course you have the near death dancing. I plan to run 2 mages so I could effectively be damage immune for 27 seconds straight(SW>Bar>SW>Bar>SW). Long as a spirit attack doesn't come in that's a serious bloodbath without ever needing a heal during.

@Graunt: Has Last Push been confirmed as a full cooldown reduction?

Modifié par Zhel_Ryn, 08 mars 2011 - 05:32 .

[Adhin]

Hah yeah Zhel that's kinda my line of thinking with taking Stonewall/Bulwark, and both my mages having Barrier. Just use em as immunity damage segments. Picture having a Barrier incoming and popping Sacrificial Frenzy prior getting that x2 dmg upgrade. At half HP you'd be rocking +100% dmg boost.

Gods, no wonder they had some dude work a Warrior to 1-shotting a lower end bosses.

[Graunt]

Zhel_Ryn wrote...
@Graunt: Has Last Push been confirmed as a full cooldown reduction?

No, no thanks to the crappy guide either.  For it's level it has to do that.  A "reduction" even if it was something like 5s - 10s just doesn't cut it.

Modifié par Graunt, 08 mars 2011 - 05:38 .