1046 réponses à ce sujet

[JulianoV]

Berserk makes an auto-attack-only build quite viable... Investing 20 points in Stamina you get a grand total of 260 stamina points, 240 with cleave active, giving a whopping 36 points of damage per blow. 72 if you count cleave's bonus. That's EXACTLY the same as Mighty Blow's upgraded version, except lacking crowd control and combo-ability.

On the other hand, you get the sweet bonuses from stuff like Haste, fervour and Barrage. The latter even synergizes with Blood Frenzy, if suicidal tendecies can be called a strategy.

I might test it on Nightmare, knowing the survivability of the build is next to none... MIght be fun having a suicidal maniac berserking, soaked in blood and killing anything on his way >D

Modifié par JulianoV, 06 mars 2011 - 12:29 .

[Sabresandiego]

In my opinion the berserker spec is best if you ignore using active abilities at all, so that you always have the maximum stamina available. If I was going berserker the only actives I would take are mighty blow and cleave/claymore. Rely on autoattacks for most damage, and then burst down bosses with an adrenaline/second wind cleave/claymore pumped mighty blow/killer blow/shattering blow. Use autoattacks most of the time except when you are bursting down a boss.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 06 mars 2011 - 12:35 .

[October Sixth]

I'm thinking about giving my DPS warrior Rally/Unite (paired with Might/Muscle). Anyone have any thoughts about that relative to other options for the last 2 points?

EDIT:

I guess I'll want the +400 Stamina regeneration rate from Rally/Unite more on the DPS warrior than Aveline.
How about:

Killer Blow & Pommel Blow vs. Voracious & Insatiable vs. Bolster & Second Wind?

Modifié par October Sixth, 06 mars 2011 - 12:39 .

[Eclipse_9990]

I can't wait till Blood Mage info is on here. I'm thinking Blood Mage does physical damage instead of spirit this time around.

[Graunt]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Graunt your build is way too heavy on actives and sustains, impossible to have enough stamina. Bolster and second wind need to be integrated into the build as a must have, not as optional, and you need to remove some stamina hog abilities. Your build is not going to work even if you pump willpower.

A) You don't have any idea how much stamina from gear we will see, Do you know if we no longer get sta back per kill outside of Death Blow?  It was stated Rogues get sta back per hit, Warriors per kill outside of just regeneration. Has this changed?

Base STA is 110
Might - 20% sta
Aura of Pain - 10% sta

That leaves 77 from the base with 0 upgrades.

Cleave - 20 - 20s cooldown
Whirlwind - 30 - 30s cooldown
Scythe - 30 - 20s cooldown
Mighty Blow - 20 - 20s cooldown
Barrage - 20 sta - 30s cooldown
Devour - 20 (5)

As long as you're constantly killing, you should have enough stamina to keep all of these on cooldown once you "start".  Second Wind is optional unless you have some inside information about how weapons, upgrades and stamina per kill look that we don't know about.

Modifié par Graunt, 06 mars 2011 - 12:41 .

[Sabresandiego]

Berserk spec is all about stamina. You want to maximize your stamina by avoiding the use of active abilities, and getting talents from the battlemaster tree and vanguard tree instead. Mighty Blow is the only active ability you should take from the 2h tree as a berserker, and you should use it to adrenaline burst down bosses with cleave from vanguard. Aside from that, you want to always have your stamina maxed and use autoattacks as your main form of damage (buffed by berserker, cleave, barrage, and maybe assail).

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 06 mars 2011 - 12:55 .

[JulianoV]

Sabresandiego wrote...

In my opinion the berserker spec is best if you ignore using active abilities at all, so that you always have the maximum stamina available. If I was going berserker the only actives I would take are mighty blow and cleave/claymore. Rely on autoattacks for most damage, and then burst down bosses with an adrenaline/second wind cleave/claymore pumped mighty blow/killer blow/shattering blow. Use autoattacks most of the time except when you are bursting down a boss.

Precisely. It does annoy me that auto attacking is so god damm boring...

[Sabresandiego]

Graunt wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Graunt your build is way too heavy on actives and sustains, impossible to have enough stamina. Bolster and second wind need to be integrated into the build as a must have, not as optional, and you need to remove some stamina hog abilities. Your build is not going to work even if you pump willpower.

A) You don't have any idea how much stamina from gear we will see, Do you know if we no longer get sta back per kill outside of Death Blow?  It was stated Rogues get sta back per hit, Warriors per kill outside of just regeneration. Has this changed?

Base STA is 110
Might - 20% sta
Aura of Pain - 10% sta

That leaves 77 from the base with 0 upgrades.

Cleave - 20 - 20s cooldown
Whirlwind - 30 - 30s cooldown
Scythe - 30 - 20s cooldown
Mighty Blow - 20 - 20s cooldown
Barrage - 20 sta - 30s cooldown
Devour - 20 (5)

As long as you're constantly killing, you should have enough stamina to keep all of these on cooldown once you "start".  Second Wind is optional unless you have some inside information about how weapons, upgrades and stamina per kill look that we don't know about.

Your build is slightly off because it tries to do too many things rather than focusing on maximizing the synergy of specific talents. Berserker syerngizes extremely well with bolster, second wind, deep breath, and other stamina boosting talents. You dont take any of them and list it as optional. Your build tries to do too much. You need to focus on something specific, there is no master build.

[Graunt]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Berserk spec is all about stamina. You want to maximize your stamina by avoiding the use of active abilities, and getting talents from the battlemaster tree and vanguard tree instead. Mighty Blow is the only active ability you should take from the 2h tree as a berserker, and you should use it to adrenaline burst down bosses with cleave from vanguard. Aside from that, you want to always have your stamina maxed and use autoattacks as your main form of damage.

So...a single target, auto attack Rogue with less auto attack damage where you hope your swings are arcing wide enough to hit 4-5 enemies at a time?  The "Berserk" ability by itself is crap if you don't already have a high stamina level.  Unless I'm not reading the skill correctly, you would only be getting +10% * 110 in bonus damage, and we don't know if the bonus drops each hit or if it's simply active until your stamina is completely empty.  Even so, I don't see how 10% auto attack and 10% Mighty Blow (if it even works this way) is going to be "optimal" at all, especially with the way the game is designed around burst in general.

Modifié par Graunt, 06 mars 2011 - 12:49 .

[Sabresandiego]

The Berserk sustain uses the term "remaining stamina" meaning that everytime you use an ability like mighty blow, sythe, or whirlwind, your "remaining stamina" goes down. Basically, the berserk sustain rewards you for keeping your "remaining stamina" high. How do you do this? By designing a build that does not use alot of actives and keeps stamina very high most of the time, then blows all your stamina in a burst, then goes back to full with second wind.

Warrior regen is +5% per normal kill, I believe. So if you have deathblow its +10%. Im not sure on these numbers though.

Also base warrior stamina regen is +10 which is +.25% stamina per second. Berserker adds + 10, and deep reserves adds +10, so you can  get +30 stamina regen through talents which is +.75% regen per second, which equals 7.5% regen every 10 seconds.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 06 mars 2011 - 12:53 .

[Black-Xero]

I'll be picking Reaver and Templar for my religious warrior.Can't wait to see the mage specs so I know the abilities for Force and Blood mage.

[Graunt]

Sabresandiego wrote...

The Berserk sustain uses the term "remaining stamina" meaning that everytime you use an ability like mighty blow, sythe, or whirlwind, your "remaining stamina" goes down. Basically, the berserk sustain rewards you for keeping your "remaining stamina" high. How do you do this? By designing a build that does not use alot of actives and keeps stamina very high most of the time, then blows all your stamina in a burst, then goes back to full with second wind.

Dumping 20 into WIL for the proposed 36 per hit is even less than what you get for 20 STR (STR is ATTK/DMG).  That's just auto attacking.  I don't know why you're shooting down something that will probably work easily without having seen all of the variables.  I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing the "reward" for not using any abilities for a very miniscule gain for swings when the game is about burst.  It would be different if it was like Momentum, but it's not even close.

Modifié par Graunt, 06 mars 2011 - 12:58 .

[Graunt]

Filament wrote...

Stamina doesn't go up on level-up anymore? Really?

What about health? Mana? Stamina for rogues?

Everything stays at base value.  You have to put points into WIL/CON to see any change, and of course GEAR.

[JulianoV]

I'll have to side with SaberSandiego on this one. GOing reaver/berserk would demand a very auto-attack-focused build. Hence something like

Control
Might
Cleave/Claymore
Massacre(for quickly dispatching enemies on Nightmare and getting that sweet stamina regen from berserk line)
Bolster
Second Wind/Deep Breath/LAst Push(??? If it reduces time considerable one could use with Devour)
Deep Reserves(probably too meh to make good use of)
Blood Frenzy(Sacrifical Frenzy, Sustained Frenzy depend on whether the bonus is proportional to health or damage taken during skill effect)
Fervor(Yummy)
Devour/Voracious/Insatiable(Get this one after a Pinning shot and have your mage go for a Crushing Prison afterwards. MONEY!)
Berserk/Savage BErserk/Endless Berserk(The bread and butter of auto-attacking. Dropping 28 points in willpower(Hefty investment, that's a given), you get FOURTY FIVE bonus points of damage. Even if you deploy ALL your attribute points in Strength you'll end up with a bonus 30 of damage after 20 levels.)
Barrage/Unrelenting BArrage/Resilient Barrage(Needless to say anything. Getting the absolute most of your auto attacks can't be bad anywhere in this world.)
Death Blow

Mind you, I didn't even count the talents and have no idea if you'll be able to get all of them. Its just what I believe goes well with a Berserk build. MInd you one would probably have to reconsider Giant's Reach if it increases the auto attack arc. Otherwise it's pretty pointless. Enemy tend to clutter AROUND you, not stand in a line to have a shot at punching you.

Modifié par JulianoV, 06 mars 2011 - 01:00 .

[jhawke]

I'm a little confused about the Righteous Strike for Templars.

it says it's a passive ability, but says the silence buff only lasts 4s.............

[JulianoV]

Graunt wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

The Berserk sustain uses the term "remaining stamina" meaning that everytime you use an ability like mighty blow, sythe, or whirlwind, your "remaining stamina" goes down. Basically, the berserk sustain rewards you for keeping your "remaining stamina" high. How do you do this? By designing a build that does not use alot of actives and keeps stamina very high most of the time, then blows all your stamina in a burst, then goes back to full with second wind.

Dumping 20 into WIL for the proposed 36 per hit is even less than what you get for 20 STR (STR is ATTK/DMG).  That's just auto attacking.  I don't know why you're shooting down something that will probably work easily without having seen all of the variables.  I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing the "reward" for not using any abilities for a very miniscule gain for swings when the game is about burst.  It would be different if it was like Momentum, but it's not even close.

I'm sorry about double posting but my wall of text could diverge your attention from what I'm about to say:

When you mention the game is about burst you might not be taking into consideration the effects of cleave and how freaking amazing, yet stamina taxing it can be. Skills have some considerably long animations and the proportion towards auto attacks will probably remain the same with the attack speed increments. If you read my post you'd see there's a gigantic amount of bonus damage to be gained from NOT using skills while going for the berserk line. But on the other hand, I can see how those skills could, due to their impressive AoE, end up RESTORING the stamina they ate up.

So many possibilities....

[Sabresandiego]

If you max out the berserk sustain and keep it active, the math shows that 1 point of willpower = .675 damage when your stamina bar is full. Strength = .5 damage. This means that if you keep your stamina bar nearly full at all times, willpower will increase a berserkers damage by more then strength. You can keep your stamina nearly full at all times by not using any actives until you are ready to burst, then burst all of your stamina at once, then recover it all with second wind. Thats the best way to play berserker. Try to keep your stamina at about 80%-90% at all times.

As for attributes, a berserker probably wants to go 2 str, 1 wil per level. Maybe throw some in constitution occasionaly.

Berserker Style = autoattack until 100% stamina, when at 100% use only 1 ability, recover stamina to 100%, use 1 ability, recover to 100%, use 1 ability, blow all cooldowns (cleave, adrenalinexxxxx) and hit a mighty blow dumping all your stamina, then quickly recover it all with second wind and go back to only use 1 ability everytime you get 100% stamina.

Berserkers should not use any sustains at all besides berserker.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 06 mars 2011 - 01:10 .

[October Sixth]

jhawke wrote...

I'm a little confused about the Righteous Strike for Templars.

it says it's a passive ability, but says the silence buff only lasts 4s.............

Silence lasts 4secs after the Templar lands a hit.

[JulianoV]

Besides, going all auto attack would demand a diversion from investion in either constitution or, more likely, cunning, demanding more care when it comes to getting surrounded, reducing the effect of whirlwind. Messy situation this buildcrafting...

[October Sixth]

JulianoV wrote...

Besides, going all auto attack would demand a diversion from investion in either constitution or, more likely, cunning, demanding more care when it comes to getting surrounded, reducing the effect of whirlwind. Messy situation this buildcrafting...

Whirling Warriors don't use Cunning.

8. Tornado
Requires: Level 13
Requires: Whirlwind
Points required in Two-Handed: 6
Whirlwind now lands a critical hit with nearly every swing.
Critical chance: 100%
Type: Upgrade

Modifié par October Sixth, 06 mars 2011 - 01:09 .

[JulianoV]

Sabresandiego wrote...

If you max out the berserk sustain and keep it active, the math shows that 1 point of willpower = .675 damage when your stamina bar is full. Strength = .5 damage. This means that if you keep your stamina bar nearly full at all times, willpower will increase a berserkers damage by more then strength. You can keep your stamina nearly full at all times by not using any actives until you are ready to burst, then burst all of your stamina at once, then recover it all with second wind. Thats the best way to play berserker. Try to keep your stamina at about 80%-90% at all times.

As for attributes, a berserker probably wants to go 2 str, 1 wil per level. Maybe throw some in constitution occasionaly.

I'm under the impressions that getting a single point in strength and ocasionally 2 will most likely be enough to keep attack high enough and allow usage of the best armors available.

[JulianoV]

October Sixth wrote...

JulianoV wrote...

Besides, going all auto attack would demand a diversion from investion in either constitution or, more likely, cunning, demanding more care when it comes to getting surrounded, reducing the effect of whirlwind. Messy situation this buildcrafting...

Whirling Warriors don't use Cunning.

8. Tornado
Requires: Level 13
Requires: Whirlwind
Points required in Two-Handed: 6
Whirlwind now lands a critical hit with nearly every swing.
Critical chance: 100%
Type: Upgrade

I meant when it comes to defense. My point is kind of moot though, since whenever stuff surround you they're most likely going to fly away all over the place in seconds anyway. Even then cunning would be GREAT for a whirlwinding warrior, since it doesn't increase critical chance, rather critical damage

Modifié par JulianoV, 06 mars 2011 - 01:13 .

[October Sixth]

JulianoV wrote...

October Sixth wrote...

JulianoV wrote...

Besides, going all auto attack would demand a diversion from investion in either constitution or, more likely, cunning, demanding more care when it comes to getting surrounded, reducing the effect of whirlwind. Messy situation this buildcrafting...

Whirling Warriors don't use Cunning.

8. Tornado
Requires: Level 13
Requires: Whirlwind
Points required in Two-Handed: 6
Whirlwind now lands a critical hit with nearly every swing.
Critical chance: 100%
Type: Upgrade

I meant when it comes to defense. My point is kind of moot though, since whenever stuff surround you they're most likely going to fly away all over the place in seconds anyway. Even then cunning would be GREAT for a whirlwinding warrior, since it doesn't increase critical chance, rather critical damage

Oh that's right, mixed it up with Dexterity. Yeah, that should work well.