1046 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabresandiego]

If you want to know how to 1 shot a weak boss, basically you get shaterring blow, have a mage make the boss brittle and cast death hex (100% crit chance), then blow cleave+adrenaline*max + secondwind +adrenaline*max + shattering blow. If you also have reaver with blood frenzy, you can do this combo when you are low on health for even more devastation.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 06 mars 2011 - 01:23 .

[Graunt]

JulianoV wrote...

October Sixth wrote...

JulianoV wrote...

Besides, going all auto attack would demand a diversion from investion in either constitution or, more likely, cunning, demanding more care when it comes to getting surrounded, reducing the effect of whirlwind. Messy situation this buildcrafting...

Whirling Warriors don't use Cunning.

8. Tornado
Requires: Level 13
Requires: Whirlwind
Points required in Two-Handed: 6
Whirlwind now lands a critical hit with nearly every swing.
Critical chance: 100%
Type: Upgrade

I meant when it comes to defense. My point is kind of moot though, since whenever stuff surround you they're most likely going to fly away all over the place in seconds anyway. Even then cunning would be GREAT for a whirlwinding warrior, since it doesn't increase critical chance, rather critical damage

The upgrade to Might also increases crit damage by 25% if you have the point to spare.  And I'm just not seeing the boost at all to relying on auto attacking.  Have you actually paid attention to how slow that is in the demo during the "God Mode" sequence when you have six abilities and exaggerated stats?  If anything, that should show you just how terrible it is compared to bursting down everything.  

Even if the retail version doubles the damage per swing of the demo, it's still way too slow, especially when you only seem to "reliably" hit three enemies tops and that's if one is standing on either side of your target.  Whirlwind, Reaver and Mighty Blow remove enemies MUCH faster.  Try lining up ten enemies and let me know how many swings it takes you to auto attack them all then divide that by three (and that's being generous).

I wish you (Sabre) would stop treating this as though everything is static and that you'll always be hitting something and that every milisecond of each cooldown would be occupied.  That isn't realistic at all, nor is the idea that the waves of enemies are going to merrily just stand around waiting for you to dispatch the first before sending more in or that the enemies you're already on wouldn't be moving.  I find it very ironic that you would even consider this after your whole "jousting" concept and discussing burst yourself.  Auto attack just won't work except on bosses.

To even make it feasible you would need Fervor minimum.

Modifié par Graunt, 06 mars 2011 - 01:41 .

[JulianoV]

Adrenaline has an 8 second effect duration. You'd probably waste some of your boosts there. I was amazed and enamored with adrenaline until reading it only lasts 8 seconds. Then my world fell. Still a perfectly fine skill, I just think it's incoherent when it's in a stamina maintaining traitline, specially at that painfully low duration...

[JulianoV]

Graunt wrote...

JulianoV wrote...

October Sixth wrote...

JulianoV wrote...

Besides, going all auto attack would demand a diversion from investion in either constitution or, more likely, cunning, demanding more care when it comes to getting surrounded, reducing the effect of whirlwind. Messy situation this buildcrafting...

Whirling Warriors don't use Cunning.

8. Tornado
Requires: Level 13
Requires: Whirlwind
Points required in Two-Handed: 6
Whirlwind now lands a critical hit with nearly every swing.
Critical chance: 100%
Type: Upgrade

I meant when it comes to defense. My point is kind of moot though, since whenever stuff surround you they're most likely going to fly away all over the place in seconds anyway. Even then cunning would be GREAT for a whirlwinding warrior, since it doesn't increase critical chance, rather critical damage

The upgrade to Might also increases crit damage by 25% if you have the point to spare.  And I'm just not seeing the boost at all to relying on auto attacking.  Have you actually paid attention to how slow that is in the demo during the "God Mode" sequence when you have six abilities and exaggerated stats?  If anything, that should show you just how terrible it is compared to bursting down everything.  

Even if the retail version doubles the damage per swing of the demo, it's still way too slow, especially when you only seem to "reliably" hit three enemies tops and that's if one is standing on either side of your target.  Whirlwind, Reaver and Mighty Blow remove enemies MUCH faster.  Try lining up ten enemies and let me know how many swings it takes you to auto attack them all then divide that by three (and that's being generous).

THAT is a very strong point. I do remember how incredibly weak auto-attack was there. On the other hand, on paper, having a 30-45 boost in damage from your stamina pool is way more effective than the 18-24 damage those skills dish out per enemy, specially since we're looking at a PER SWING boost here. I'd take only Mighty Blow if I went for the Berserk traitline, since it has pretty decent damage and the comboing potential with brittle is immense.

LEt your health dip(with frenzy), Petrify->Mighty Blow->Pinning Shot->Devour->Crushing Prison.

A pretty effective way, at least on paper, to turn the tables on a boss.

[Avl521]

 It's been about 7 hours...
And considering Rogue is supposed to go first, I'll have to wait God knows how long to see the Mage specs...

I'm sad... 

[Graunt]

JulianoV wrote...
THAT is a very strong point. I do remember how incredibly weak auto-attack was there. On the other hand, on paper, having a 30-45 boost in damage from your stamina pool is way more effective than the 18-24 damage those skills dish out per enemy, specially since we're looking at a PER SWING boost here. I'd take only Mighty Blow if I went for the Berserk traitline, since it has pretty decent damage and the comboing potential with brittle is immense.

You need to load up the demo and look at the damage those skills are doing. Especially once you hit level 6.  You're gaining "more" auto attack damage per WIL over STR (if this is even accurate) for never using anything, yet WIL does not add to hit% (STR does), and since you're not using abilities (other than Mighty Blow) going STR pulls ahead for each additional enemy when using abilities.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I know that I would find it much more gratifying gathering up 4-5 melee enemies and running them on top of ranged and then killing 5-7+ enemies within three cooldowns as opposed to running from group to group and waiting...for them to die....  Hell, even if you add in Fervor it sounds like an extremely BORING Warrior from WoW who only uses Whirlwind every 20 seconds.

[BloodyMangus]

Got this from the gamefaqs board

original poster ShadowJax04

This list will be usable abilites only, no passives

Force Mage:
Fist of the Maker: The mage slams enemies into the ground with incredible power, against which armor is no protection

Gravity Ring: The mage redirects the gravity in an area to significantly reduce the enemies' speed. The closer an enemy is to the center of the spell, the greater the effect.

Telekinetic Burst: The mage summons a wave of telekinetic force that hurtles enemies away from the core of the blast.

Pull of the Abyss: The mage conjures a maelstrom of energy that draws enemies to its center while slowing them to a crawl.

---
Spirit Healer:
Group Heal: The mage restores the health of all allies simultaneously with a surge of creation magic (Healing aura must be active)
Revival: The mage revives all allies who have fallen in battle, returning themto life with some of their health and mana or stamina restored (Healing aura must be active)

No more cooldown abilites for Spirit Healers, must are passives and actives.

--
Finally abilities for Blood Mages:

Hemorrhage: The spell corrupts the blood of all foes in a targeted area, inflicting damage over a short duration without regard for enemy armor or damage resistance

Grave Robber: The blood mage consumes the residual life force from nearby enemy corpse to regain health

Sacrifice: The blood mage sucks the life force from an ally to regain health

Blood Slave: The mage enslaves a target, forcing it to fight alongside the party for a short time, after which the victim dies unless it is particularly powerful.

[Sabresandiego]

Berserker spec is highly geared towards autoattack damage. Consider this: attack speed bonuses effect autoattack speed. Berserker sustain boosts autoattacks more than specials since they are more frequently used.

Barrage +50% attack speed
Fervor +30% attack speed
Haste +50% attack speed

If you used the berserker sustain, then popped cleave/barrage/assail and any other actives until your stamina is 0, then use second wind, and mage pops haste, then use adrenaline whenever you are at 100% stamina you are going to be autattacking at 230% speed while knocking people back and doing aoe damage with assail/besiege, recovering stamina due to massacre + deathblow at a high enough rate to use adrenaline every 5-8 seconds.

Berserker spec is designed around conserving stamina and autoattacking and then doing huge bursts. Its a pretty cool spec if you can master stamina management.

[Graunt]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Berserker spec is highly geared towards autoattack damage. Consider this: attack speed bonuses effect autoattack speed. Berserker sustain boosts autoattacks more than specials since they are more frequently used.

Barrage +50% attack speed
Fervor +30% attack speed
Haste +50% attack speed

If you used the berserker sustain, then popped cleave/barrage/assail and any other actives until your stamina is 0, then use second wind, and mage pops haste, then use adrenaline whenever you are at 100% stamina you are going to be autattacking at 230% speed while knocking people back and doing aoe damage with assail/besiege, recovering stamina due to massacre + deathblow at a high enough rate to use adrenaline every 5-8 seconds.

Berserker spec is designed around conserving stamina and autoattacking and then doing huge bursts. Its a pretty cool spec if you can master stamina management.

Haste doesn't exclusively work on a Warrior specced into Berserk.  Fervor works the same too.  And since you seem to think specific builds simply cannot live without Second Wind (I never said it wasn't good), you may as well include Barrage.  So now we have three abilities that are not tied to any particular handicap and can work with just auto attacks AS WELL AS using cooldowns.  I also noticed that Berserk doesn't even "gain ground" at all even when full until you upgrade it from it's base -- which I wasn't planning on doing.

I don't know why it's so hard for you to understand what my build was based on by claiming it's not focused, when yeah...it actually is (do I really need to flowchart it?).  Whether or not it can actually maintain all of those cooldowns, especially while running two sustainables with or without Second Wind is all conjecture at this time by both parties.  The fact that the Berserk line has a lot of "fluff" activations doesn't even matter since you need to get them to get Death Blow anyway.  You don't actually have to use them.

Force Mage:
Fist of the Maker: The mage slams enemies into the ground with incredible power, against which armor is no protection

Gravity
Ring: The mage redirects the gravity in an area to significantly reduce
the enemies' speed. The closer an enemy is to the center of the spell,
the greater the effect.

Telekinetic Burst: The mage summons a wave of telekinetic force that hurtles enemies away from the core of the blast.

Pull of the Abyss: The mage conjures a maelstrom of energy that draws enemies to its center while slowing them to a crawl.

Yay...they sound exactly as expected...<_<  The only really interesting one is Pull.  It sounds very similar to Singularity.  Actually, that ability would be incredible if it didn't do FF.  Depending on it's radius it might actually be really good regardless, and an excuse to take a Warrior for damage in Nightmare.

If the game has lots of waves fights, and you don't have these abilities
you are probably going to need to spam lyrium/stamina potions when each
new wave arrives.

Once you get Death Blow, you would be getting back 5.5 stamina back per kill minimum and that's if you're sitting at the default value the entire playthrough.  One good Whirlwind (or any area of effect) already paid for itself, plus you are supposed to get a little bit back per kill by default.  You would have to pick up Bolster anyway to get Second Wind -- which, I don't know why it's being assumed that I wasn't going to have them in my build.  They are listed as bonus/optional for a reason.  If I need them, they will be inserted at any given level.  The fact that they are listed as 24,25 etc is irrelevant.  It could be argued that at the lower levels, Second Wind + Last Push is the single largest boost to damage you can get.

Modifié par Graunt, 06 mars 2011 - 02:25 .

[Aesieru]

Blood Mage please...

Thank you, a bit disappointed about lack of passive and upgrade info, and the lack of another damage dealer or summon, but that's good.

Modifié par Aesieru, 06 mars 2011 - 02:25 .

[Sabresandiego]

Nobody here has mentioned how powerful some of the abilities in templar are. Imagine casting silence on a high dragon, it wont be able to breathe fire at you, grab you, or do anything except autoattack for 20 seconds (reduced duration for boss) so maybe 5-10 seconds. 5 seconds would suck, but 10 seconds would still be good.

Holy smite is a second whirlwind which can be upgraded to stun (althout the stamina cost is extreme at 35).

50% magic resistance is very nice as well.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 06 mars 2011 - 02:26 .

[Avl521]

Thank the forum member who posted about the mage specializations.

I'd still like an OP style description saying damage, cooldowns, stamina/mana etc. and to see which icon is which to know what each does and to plan a path and an overall build.
I already know my eventual 2H warrior will be a Templar Reaver.
Expecting my eventual rogue and my first playthrough mage.

[The Night Haunter]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Nobody here has mentioned how powerful some of the abilities in templar are. Imagine casting silence on a high dragon, it wont be able to breathe fire at you, grab you, or do anything except autoattack for 20 seconds (reduced duration for boss) so maybe 5-10 seconds. 5 seconds would suck, but 10 seconds would still be good.

Holy smite is a second whirlwind which can be upgraded to stun (althout the stamina cost is extreme at 35).

50% magic resistance is very nice as well.

Understatement of the day.

[Adhin]

@Graunt and generally about Devour:

The problem I'm seeing and it could just be worded odd. Is 'regeneration', that being Health, Stamina or Mana, 10 = .25% of your HP. Now if it 'really' means what you've been saying Graunt (which isn't how its worded) then that's awesome. And with the cooldown it has I figure it HAS to be like that. Otherwise it'll just suck all manner of balls. If you look at its damage, compared to others (yes it scales but so do the others), higher lvl char (not by enough to matter) its about 1/4th that of MIghty blow's dmg.

Mighty Blow is about x4 base dmg so, just off that you can kind of guess Devour will, at base, do your normal attack damage to a single target, up side being getting that in health. I just hope its a direct 1:1 ratio of Health, cause if its Health regeneration (in non-percents) it's horribly lacking.

Example look at Berserk its self (the specialization) it gives +10 stamina regeneration. That's 0.25% stamina per second, or 1% every 4. Just as an added bonus, which is nice for sure considering Warrior basically has 5 or 10 at base, which is way to low to count on.

So that's where my concern is but it could easily just be one of them awkward wording things. They often word things weird even when they don't function the way its listed. And they never seem to fix that in an update.

[The Night Haunter]

Naitaka!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wake up and work!!

We wantz our statzzz.

[Wissenschaft]

I'll put 2 talents into Reaver. The passive and the active that doubles the passives effectiveness.

[Dr. rotinaj]

ghostmessiah202 wrote...

Naitaka!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wake up and work!!

We wantz our statzzz.

Seriously. What a tease.

[Icy Magebane]

Hm... Blood Mage sounds okay... I think I might be switching to Warrior though...
Edit:  Without stats, I can't make any decisons... I don't want to give up on magic, so I'll just wait patiently.  Waiting for stats is better than no hope for a revelation at all, which is what we had before Naitaka.

Edit:  Oh, and thanks Bioware for being so generous with the nerfs.  No Blood Wound?  WTH is that?  Maybe there is a paralysis upgrade for the damage dealing ability...

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 06 mars 2011 - 02:52 .

[X-Frame]

Where iz this ninja?

[Graunt]

Adhin wrote...

@Graunt and generally about Devour:

The problem I'm seeing and it could just be worded odd. Is 'regeneration', that being Health, Stamina or Mana, 10 = .25% of your HP. Now if it 'really' means what you've been saying Graunt (which isn't how its worded) then that's awesome. And with the cooldown it has I figure it HAS to be like that. Otherwise it'll just suck all manner of balls. If you look at its damage, compared to others (yes it scales but so do the others), higher lvl char (not by enough to matter) its about 1/4th that of MIghty blow's dmg.

Mighty Blow is about x4 base dmg so, just off that you can kind of guess Devour will, at base, do your normal attack damage to a single target, up side being getting that in health. I just hope its a direct 1:1 ratio of Health, cause if its Health regeneration (in non-percents) it's horribly lacking.

I highly doubt you'll be getting back 50 - 75% health back and rather 50 - 75 health.  Even so, if you've been meagerly adding 1 CON per level, at level 20 that's still 25% - 35% of your health back if it were only giving back a flat 50 - 75 health.  It can't be that horrible (well it could, but...), and surely scales beyond that.  By around level 20 it will probably do enough damage to give you at least 50% of your health back.  If it doesn't, then it's just a really badly designed skill.

Also, Fireball shows a "Base" damage of 8, yet when you start a level 2 Mage it's sitting at 55 - 65 damage.  By level 6 it's 450 or so.  Even with inflated stat multipliers, it should show that the base number of Devour won't look anything like that when you finally get it.

Modifié par Graunt, 06 mars 2011 - 02:56 .

[Shifty Assassin]

Man wake up its been over 8 hours didnt you set an alarm????!!