237 réponses à ce sujet

[Gerudan]

I don't get it, why anyone would have a problem with possibilities that Bioware gives you.

If you only plan to play a MaleHawke and romance Merrill or Isabela, then it doesn't even matter, if they are also romanceable as FemaleHawke. In that case they are just straight and nothing else. 

There is absolutely no need to mod anything.

Modifié par Gerudan, 05 mars 2011 - 07:29 .

[Ryzaki]

...Everyone isn't bi. 4 members of your party are bi. Just 4. Not all of them, not all of the people you meet, just 4. It is *not* that big of an issue.

[TallBearNC]

Machines Are Us wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...



But who did they change? You say they changed them, but how do you know the idea wasn't to make them all bisexual right from the start? THen no changing happened at all. The only character we got extended exposure too before was ANders, and frankly he always struck me as open. No changing seems to have happened at all, so why are you complaining?

If Bioware makes them bisexual then I have no issue, as stated in both of my previous posts. As they created the characters.

I said IF  they changed them.

By THEM  I mean modders not Bioware.

Bioware create characters with X sexuality.
Modders change characters to have Y sexuality.
Characters modded are no longer the same characters Bioware created.

It is extremely simple logic.

It's already been confirmed by BW, ALL party members are romancable by any gender... or to be blunt "bisexual"

but that shouldn't impact anyone's RP experience. Just ignore that fact, and RP as you like. If you want hetro only, then romance only opposite genders, for bi - choose whomever you like.. for gay.. chose same sex.... you can play how you like and change it up if you like on every playthrough

[Rune-Chan]

Gerudan wrote...

I don't get it, why anyone would have a problem with possibilities that Bioware gives you.

If you only plan to play a MaleHawke and romance Merrill or Isabella, then it doesn't even matter, if they are also romanceable as FemaleHawke. In that case they are just straight and nothing else.

There is absolutely no need to mod anything.

I think some people are concerned about being hit on by same-sex companions. I am not sure why this would be an issue as the option to reject them would always be there.

Ryzaki wrote...

...Everyone isn't bi. 4 members of your
party are bi. Just 4. Not all of them, not all of the people you meet,
just 4. It is *not* that big of an issue.

True, but it does seem a little strange from a realistic point of view that the four people who have an interest in you all happen to be bisexual.

From a gaming perspective it is irrelevant, but from a design perspective it is fairly... odd.

TallBearNC wrote...
It's already been confirmed by BW, ALL party members are romancable by any gender... or to be blunt "bisexual"

but
that shouldn't impact anyone's RP experience. Just ignore that fact,
and RP as you like. If you want hetro only, then romance only opposite
genders, for bi - choose whomever you like.. for gay.. chose same
sex.... you can play how you like and change it up if you like on every
playthrough

I know, I was referring to if they weren't bisexual. I didn't know it had been confirmed that they were.

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 05 mars 2011 - 07:29 .

[TallBearNC]

Ryzaki wrote...

...Everyone isn't bi. 4 members of your party are bi. Just 4. Not all of them, not all of the people you meet, just 4. It is *not* that big of an issue.

Aye correct. I just think BW did that due to the flaming and backlash over DAO - as many people were upset they could not romance XXX character as XXX gender.

So by making them all romancable. People who argued "but that's not how BW made them!" That argument is now GONE. BW *has* made them all romanceable. So no modding is needed as you can now RP as you like. And this all goes back to my OP

Although I would like to mod some of the characters looks though heheheh

Modifié par TallBearNC, 05 mars 2011 - 07:30 .

[TheRevanchist]

Machines Are Us wrote...

True, but it does seem a little strange from a realistic point of view that the four people who have an interest in you all happen to be bisexual.

From a gaming perspective it is irrelevant, but from a design perspective it is fairly... odd.

This is my views on the matter...it's just weird that all the LI's just happen to be Bi...it feels fake to me...call me w/e you want...but it feels unbelievable.

[werewoof]

Machines Are Us wrote...

I think some people are concerned about being hit on by same-sex
companions. I am not sure why this would be an issue as the option to
reject them would always be there.

There's a pretty large amount of people who seem really insecure about this. I get that Zev might have thrown a few people off, but I highly doubt all four of our LIs are going to throw themselves at us right from the start. If they hit on you, it's not too hard to just reject them.

[Lennonkun]

Bioware should just quit beating around the bush and do what they want to, a dating-sim. I'm sure it'll be right up there with Tokimeki and the others.

[Gerudan]

Machines Are Us wrote...

I think some people are concerned about being hit on by same-sex companions. I am not sure why this would be an issue as the option to reject them would always be there.

Perhaps, because they still live in the 19th century. 

Well sorry, I'm coming from a country, were the foreign minister and the mayor of the capital are openly gay and nobody cares. 

[Trophonius]

Razaroh wrote...

I doubt that everyone is truly bisexual, people have to much of a negative connection with the word for Bioware to expect to come out of it unscratched.

Isabela and Anders are bi. Fenris and Merrill make an exception for both Hawke's race and gender. Now that doesn't seem like such a stretch by any means.

Exactly. Isabela and Anders are the only actual bisexuals. I can see them mentioning previous same sex lovers if romanced by either gender, but Fenris and Merrill, however, could be left open for interpretation. Let's say, you romance Fenris as a female Hawke, then he's obviously going to be straight. Same for Merrill with a male Hawke.

Modifié par Trophonius, 05 mars 2011 - 07:39 .

[InvaderErl]

I absolutely agree with those saying its a bit of an immersion breaker. I have absolutely no problem with a party of mixed sexual orientations, I thought Origins handled this aspect perfectly. I didn't even mind Zevran making passes at my MaleWardens but it just feels a bit silly and fanwank-y that everyone is bisexual. ME2 and DA2 have gone in completely opposite directions in regards to handling their characters sexual orientations and tbh I don't like either one.

[TallBearNC]

kylecouch wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...

True, but it does seem a little strange from a realistic point of view that the four people who have an interest in you all happen to be bisexual.

From a gaming perspective it is irrelevant, but from a design perspective it is fairly... odd.

This is my views on the matter...it's just weird that all the LI's just happen to be Bi...it feels fake to me...call me w/e you want...but it feels unbelievable.

Don't think of them as bi. Think of them however you chose to RP the game. If you think they are straight.. then they are straight as you interact with them in a hetro fashion and would never see their "other side" Same goes for gay. I'll be honest, I'm a gay male. Will I be playing as "gay" ? Hell no. Each character I make will have a specific gender and orientation and interact with the LIs accordingly. I may play a raging bull ****** in one play through, or a straight male. I'm just glad BW left the option open for us to do that.

Is it REALISTIC? No. You would be hard pressed to find this in RL... but look at it this way? Is the game realistic? NO. It's a work of utter fiction, in a fictional universe with fictional characters. So it doesn't have to be like ANYTHING we have an Earth. So don't look at them as "bi"

Look at the game as a sandbox, and you can play however you chose to play, and the character oritentations are whatever you want them to be

[Russalka]

Who is to say what is realistic in Thedas?

[ArawnNox]

Did anyone ever consider that Thedas (or at least the sections that we see) have no concept of sexual labels? Let alone bi/homosexuality? Some ancient cultures considered having a lover of the same sex to be no different than regularly seeing a particular prostitute (see Feudal Japan). Or that not having a sexual relationship with the young man you were training was considered to be odd. (see ancient Sparta).

My point is, Dragon Age seems to be devoid of these labels. Lelianna talks about her relationship with Marjolaine rather freely. Zeveran is fairly open about how he finds both genders attractive. Oghren's wife, Branka, has a female lover, yet this isn't that big of a deal. Even in the novel "The Calling" there's a gay couple, but no one cares or judges them. To push the point home, are the terms "gay", "straight", or "bi" ever used in any of the Dragon Age sources?

Thedas/Dragon Age seems to be working from the standpoint that there are no labels, no lines, no divisions of sexuality, so much so that someone can be with someone and feel no outside pressure from society to conform on that level. It's not a result of "bad" writing, or even necissarily "mass audience appeal" its just presenting a culture that is different from our own modern mindset and is possibly more in line with some of the fabled aspects of Ancient Greece/Japan/Celts.

Modifié par ArawnNox, 05 mars 2011 - 07:38 .

[colejossart]

I don't care if they're bi, as long as the straight side of the romances didn't take a blow because all the romances were written "gender neutral." I felt that this was the case in Origins with Leliana and ME with Liara. Tbh, it felt that Leliana was a female romance with a male romance tacked on. I mean she talked about my eyelashes! With Leliana I felt like my Warden was a manikin listening to her life story and not a part of a relationship. This is opposed to Morrigan, who was written exclusively for males. Morrigan made references to the fact that, yes, my Warden is in fact male. I felt that Morrigan's romance was much more... interactive. I am of the opinion that this is because Morrigan was written for one gender, while Leliana was written for both.

[TallBearNC]

ArawnNox wrote...

Did anyone ever consider that Thedas (or at least the sections that we see) have no concept of sexual labels? Let alone bi/homosexuality? Some ancient cultures considered having a lover of the same sex to be no different than regularly seeing a particular prostitute (see Feudal Japan). Or that not having a sexual relationship with the young man you were training was considered to be odd. (see ancient Sparta).

My point is, Dragon Age seems to be devoid of these labels. Lelianna talks about her relationship with Marjolaine rather freely. Zeveran is fairly open about how he finds both genders attractive. Oghren's wife, Branka, has a female lover, yet this isn't that big of a deal. Even in the novel "The Calling" there's a gay couple, but no one cares or judges them. To push the point home, are the terms "gay", "straight", or "bi" ever used in any of the Dragon Age sources?

Thedas/Dragon Age seems to be working from the standpoint that there are no labels, no lines, no divisions of sexuality, so much so that someone can be with someone and feel no outside pressure from society to conform on that level. It's not a result of "bad" writing, or even necissarily "mass audience appeal" its just presenting a culture that is different from our own modern mindset and is possibly more in line with some of the fabled aspects of Ancient Greece/Japan/Celts.

I couldn't have said it better myself. GREAT post!!

[PrinceOfFallout13]

everyone is bi? well...meh

[TheRevanchist]

TallBearNC wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...

True, but it does seem a little strange from a realistic point of view that the four people who have an interest in you all happen to be bisexual.

From a gaming perspective it is irrelevant, but from a design perspective it is fairly... odd.

This is my views on the matter...it's just weird that all the LI's just happen to be Bi...it feels fake to me...call me w/e you want...but it feels unbelievable.

Don't think of them as bi. Think of them however you chose to RP the game. If you think they are straight.. then they are straight as you interact with them in a hetro fashion and would never see their "other side" Same goes for gay. I'll be honest, I'm a gay male. Will I be playing as "gay" ? Hell no. Each character I make will have a specific gender and orientation and interact with the LIs accordingly. I may play a raging bull ****** in one play through, or a straight male. I'm just glad BW left the option open for us to do that.

Is it REALISTIC? No. You would be hard pressed to find this in RL... but look at it this way? Is the game realistic? NO. It's a work of utter fiction, in a fictional universe with fictional characters. So it doesn't have to be like ANYTHING we have an Earth. So don't look at them as "bi"

Look at the game as a sandbox, and you can play however you chose to play, and the character oritentations are whatever you want them to be

I understand this...but I am mentally unable to do that...once I learn somthing about a game...its always at the forfront of my mind when dealing with that issue in game...and its going to detract from my personal experience. I'm glad so many fans have these choices...but while I do find this immersion breaking personally...it dont really matter because I dont like any of the LI options anyway...I just wanted to share my thoughts on the matter...not that it matters.

[TallBearNC]

colejossart wrote...

I don't care if they're bi, as long as the straight side of the romances didn't take a blow because all the romances were written "gender neutral." I felt that this was the case in Origins with Leliana and ME with Liara. Tbh, it felt that Leliana was a female romance with a male romance tacked on. I mean she talked about my eyelashes! With Leliana I felt like my Warden was a manikin listening to her life story and not a part of a relationship. This is opposed to Morrigan, who was written exclusively for males. Morrigan made references to the fact that, yes, my Warden is in fact male. I felt that Morrigan's romance was much more... interactive. I am of the opinion that this is because Morrigan was written for one gender, while Leliana was written for both.

I agree with you here... I did feel that some had the "gay" or the "straight" tacked on... and that bugged a bit. I HOPE that both sides of the coin got equal attention in DA2

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

This whole 'Everyone's bi' thing seems like a giant fan service. And to be honest I don't like the idea of bioware endorsing this kind of content in a video game.

Edit: Sorry, didn't mean to come off as uncivil or anything. I just don't like this direction Bioware's taking with romances.

Modifié par Solostran85, 05 mars 2011 - 07:44 .

[TallBearNC]

I'd like to take a moment and thank everyone.. some flaming did start out in the thread, but it looks like people have returned to "adult" discussions and mature talks/debates on this subject. I think if people avoid the flames, the threads won't get locked.

[Russalka]

Solostran85 wrote...

This whole 'Everyone's bi!' thing seems like a giant fan service. And to be honest I don't like the idea of bioware endorsing this kind of crap in a video game.

What kind of crap? 

[Lord_Saulot]

TallBearNC wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...

True, but it does seem a little strange from a realistic point of view that the four people who have an interest in you all happen to be bisexual.

From a gaming perspective it is irrelevant, but from a design perspective it is fairly... odd.

This is my views on the matter...it's just weird that all the LI's just happen to be Bi...it feels fake to me...call me w/e you want...but it feels unbelievable.

Don't think of them as bi. Think of them however you chose to RP the game. If you think they are straight.. then they are straight as you interact with them in a hetro fashion and would never see their "other side" Same goes for gay. I'll be honest, I'm a gay male. Will I be playing as "gay" ? Hell no. Each character I make will have a specific gender and orientation and interact with the LIs accordingly. I may play a raging bull ****** in one play through, or a straight male. I'm just glad BW left the option open for us to do that.

Is it REALISTIC? No. You would be hard pressed to find this in RL... but look at it this way? Is the game realistic? NO. It's a work of utter fiction, in a fictional universe with fictional characters. So it doesn't have to be like ANYTHING we have an Earth. So don't look at them as "bi"

Look at the game as a sandbox, and you can play however you chose to play, and the character oritentations are whatever you want them to be

What you are forgetting is that not everyone wants a sandbox game, especially since Bioware games don't have much of a sandbox element otherwise.  DAO's excelling characteristic was world-building, and the sense of a consistent world is the most important thing to me, so  I would prefer to just think of them as being bisexual in all my playthroughs rather than straight in some and gay in others.  While that isn't the optimal choice for me (once again, I prefer variety in companions - having them all bisexual is no different to me than having all the romances be elves or all the romances be mages), it is nothing I cannot live with.

[TallBearNC]

Solostran85 wrote...

This whole 'Everyone's bi!' thing seems like a giant fan service. And to be honest I don't like the idea of bioware endorsing this kind of crap in a video game.

You're right. It IS a fan service. And you have the right not to like it. But without fans.. they make no $$$. No $$$ no games. They had to make a choice to make the greatest # of gamers happy, and they made that choice based on feedback from DAO.

So do what I, and others did in DAO. MOD YOUR GAME. Mod them and remove the bi from people who you don't want to have it

EDIT: I'm not flaming your opinion. You have a right to NOT like their decision. Just like I didn't like how they made DAO 

Modifié par TallBearNC, 05 mars 2011 - 07:50 .

[InvaderErl]

I don't think anyone's asking for Thedas to have sexual labels, but people naturally have varying sexual orientations.

Origins had two bisexual characters and two straight characters and it felt completely natural. I was hoping that they'd take that further and have a completely gay or lesbian character but now the party is entirely bisexual.