237 réponses à ce sujet

[InvaderErl]

Lurid Jester summed up my feelings pretty spot on.

[TallBearNC]

colejossart wrote...

TallBearNC wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

I don't think anyone's asking for Thedas to have sexual labels, but people naturally have varying sexual orientations.

Origins had two bisexual characters and two straight characters and it felt completely natural. I was hoping that they'd take that further and have a completely gay or lesbian character but now the party is entirely bisexual.

I could live with that two. I think they "tested the waters" so to speak in DAO.. and they got a LOT of flaming and backlash from the gaming community as well as constructive feedback. What we are seeing now is a result of all that. My GUESS is they feel this is the only way to make the majority of gamers happy.

If there is a DA3, then sexuality there will be based off responses from DA2 This will also effect the ME series. All the company can do is TRY to grow their games and put out what THEY think gamers will want

I highly doubt that this will affect ME3.  ME3 is made by a different development team.  And ME has time and time again stated that Shepard is straight.

True, but it's still the same company. They may state that and hold TRUE to that, but if the major of the gaming community wants that changed... they will change it. In the end it comes down to $$$. Plus they could easily say that he didn't realize his full sexuality till later in life - which IS realistic. Married men with wives and kids not realizing they are gay till their 30s, 40s, or even 50s. If they want to change him, they can EASILY do it. It all depends on what the fans want... and they are a *business*

Why do you think we got all bi characters in DA2? I'm sure some of the devs wanted different, but I bet the company execs said "nope.. most of the people want as much flexibility as possible and that's how we will make the most money" .. or something like that...

my point is.. never say never Plus you CAN mod Sheppard to being gay. I did it in ME2. You just lose some voice overs, but you can use subtitles instead

[TallBearNC]

colejossart wrote...

TallBearNC wrote...

colejossart wrote...

I don't care if they're bi, as long as the straight side of the romances didn't take a blow because all the romances were written "gender neutral." I felt that this was the case in Origins with Leliana and ME with Liara. Tbh, it felt that Leliana was a female romance with a male romance tacked on. I mean she talked about my eyelashes! With Leliana I felt like my Warden was a manikin listening to her life story and not a part of a relationship. This is opposed to Morrigan, who was written exclusively for males. Morrigan made references to the fact that, yes, my Warden is in fact male. I felt that Morrigan's romance was much more... interactive. I am of the opinion that this is because Morrigan was written for one gender, while Leliana was written for both.

I agree with you here... I did feel that some had the "gay" or the "straight" tacked on... and that bugged a bit. I HOPE that both sides of the coin got equal attention in DA2

It's not just that they were tacked on.  The Leliana romance wasn't REALLY a romance in my opinion.  Ask questions, listen to her life story, say nice things, and your Warden doesn't die a virgin.

Morrigan's was SO much more fleshed out.  I'd sit there for minutes at a time deciding exactly what I wanted to say to her.  I think the difference between the two is that Morrigan was written for one gender, while Leliana was written for two.  From what I understand, Alistair was much the same way.  Since he was only written for one gender there was a lot more interaction between Warden and Alistair than with femWarden and Leliana.

Yep I 1000% agree with you here. It's like they tacked the things on at the last minute.

Maybe that's what's bothering so many people about them all being bi. Is that their personalities and romances will suffer. If so, then I DO see their concerns. But I think if BW deliberately made them all bi, then each will have a RICH personality and interactions (at least I HOPE SO)

[Russalka]

Tony77A wrote...

Unless you flirt with same sex companions you'll probably never know what their sexual preferences are.
As I understand, flirting is the ONLY way to start a romance.
Dont' flirt = as far as you know they're straight, problem solved.

I tink it's nice to have options for different playthroughs.

This is exactly why I do not understand why every love interest being bisexual is a problem to people.
Never mind the kind of people who killed Zevran not because he wanted to assassinate the Warden, but because he was bi.

[InvaderErl]

Russalak, you're assuming that everyone's problem with the whole everyone is bi thing comes down to not wanting to catch the gay or something like that, when that's not the case.

[TallBearNC]

colejossart wrote...

kwoods88 wrote...

Doesn't bother me honestly. I can just imagine that whoever I am romancing isn't bi (as long as they aren't like Zevran was and was all "hey i slept with guys too" I could of lived without that being shared, but it was part of his character). Not that it is a huge deal anyways. And doubt it is entirely noticeable. It is strange to say that ALL of them are bi,but that is what they are. And I guess I can see case in point regardless.

I could have gone without Zevran hitting on me as well.  But being a nice Warden, I nicely refused him.  Then later, still being a nice Warden, I said something nice and got

He was downright FUGLY. I think anything should have turned that monstronsity down. Could they have made an uglier character lol. I'm gay, and I didn't want THAT hitting on me LOL. Which is why I modded him to look "hot".. then I didn't mind But I went after Alistair and married him as a male warden. The game wasn't made for that.. so I ended up his queen (no pun intended) and was always referred to in the female tense.

[InvaderErl]

I'm sorry I misspelled your name, is anyone having trouble editing post?

[Russalka]

InvaderErl wrote...

Russalak, you're assuming that everyone's problem with the whole everyone is bi thing comes down to not wanting to catch the gay or something like that, when that's not the case.

What is the case then? They promised that the romances will not be dialogues with ONLY gender checks. And realism is purely subjective. 

Modifié par Russalka, 05 mars 2011 - 08:12 .

[Arppis]

If you would be doing adventure for your friends in table top RPG. Wouldn't you listen to their wishes and make sure that they are entertained when they play your adventure? Does it really take something away from someone if those love interests are bisexual? It propably makes loads of people happy when they can choose, instead of propably just having one love interest.

BioWare is just trying to make sure here that bigger part of people enjoy the game more.

[Beerfish]

The problem in reality as I see it is not the fact of them not wanting to do all combinations of romances it's simply a priority problem.

They have a word budget and in essence as budget for other things like cutscenes and such. If you took 4 romanceable characters and made them all romanceable rather than 2 male, 2 female and 2 bi you essentially are having to create 2 more full romances.

I'm sure the writers themselves would be more than happy to make as many romacnes to keep people happy as possible, you'd just have to take out something else like a few quests or so.

[Razaroh]

Russalka wrote...
This is exactly why I do not understand why every love interest being bisexual is a problem to people.
Never mind the kind of people who killed Zevran not because he wanted to assassinate the Warden, but because he was bi.

This, so much. Everyone being bisexual is more likely to hurt Bioware (and EA) than it is to help them. I can't see them doing it.

Anders and Isabela are bisexual, but Merrill and Fenris are not. Yes, all the romances are open to either gender, but I think the writers took a different route than just turning everyone Bi to 'please the fans'.

[Ryzaki]

So maybe in that case there should just be one female and one male romance (both would be bisexual). Everyone is happy and there's a lot less work for the developers. 

I'm pretty sure the majority of players, many of whom don't do romances would be happy if the resources were diverted towards more quests and the like. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 mars 2011 - 08:17 .

[Sporothrix]

Razaroh wrote...

Anders and Isabela are bisexual, but Merrill and Fenris are not.

Right, they are gay.

[InvaderErl]

@Russalka

We've been saying it for the last two pages, go read Lurid Jester's post back on page 3. I could honestly care less whether or not Zevran hit on him or Anders or Fenris or whoever and trying to paint everyone who has an issue with it as some kind of homophone is a little disingenuous I think.

[TallBearNC]

InvaderErl wrote...

Russalak, you're assuming that everyone's problem with the whole everyone is bi thing comes down to not wanting to catch the gay or something like that, when that's not the case.

That's why I think people get upset is they think people are homophobic or biphobic. I DO understand people's concerns about story lines being lost, not being immersed.

My brain doesn't work that way. I'm VERY imaginative. I read many books, and sometimes I don't like how the author did things.. later I may "day dream" the book differently. The way da2 has been done works perfect with my brain as I can imagine how I WANT them to be, and not TOLD how they are.. and then make that experience happen.

However, this isn't about me, and I can't expect people to think like I do.

No matter WHAT BW does, people will be unhappy. There is NO perfect solution. I don't think I'll find many arguments on this point

The most perfect once I could see is someone said, when you start the game, you should be able to click boxes to set their orientation... but I know that wont work for some people either.

So, with no perfect solution, how does BW decide? FEEDBACK. And I'll say it again. We are seeing DA2 done like this  BECAUSE of feedback from DAO. So if you don't like the way DA2 was done,, then send them feedback so it will influence DA3 (if there is to be one).

[InvaderErl]

Damn it, I really want the ability to edit my posts back. Ugh, I need to look through the settings. Correction on the misspelling on homophobe* please.

[TheRevanchist]

Russalka wrote...

Tony77A wrote...

Unless you flirt with same sex companions you'll probably never know what their sexual preferences are.
As I understand, flirting is the ONLY way to start a romance.
Dont' flirt = as far as you know they're straight, problem solved.

I tink it's nice to have options for different playthroughs.

This is exactly why I do not understand why every love interest being bisexual is a problem to people.
Never mind the kind of people who killed Zevran not because he wanted to assassinate the Warden, but because he was bi.

Im not gonna lie thats a pretty sad and pathetic reason to kill him...I kill him simply because I hate him as a whole character. But like Jester said...just because theres dragons and magic and stuff in the game does not mean there should not be any semblence of realism at all. I admit I'm kinda a hypocrit at the moment because I defended the dictionary term of Fantasy when people were complaining about the "unrealistic" combat...but honestly I find that more believeable then this. I personaly hold characters to a different standard then game mechanics and so forth, aside from that I found the combat was actually enjoyable rather than a snoozfest.

But again...there should be some semblence of reality in order to maintain suspension of disbelief or else you don't have a lot to relate to. This of course...like everything with games...comes down to personal taste...I just happen to be in the minority of every single issue 100% of the time and have to grin and bear the consequences of the design decisions. I was literally in love with Aveline but of course I was in the minority of those who liked her...so of course she was mostly ignored because the majority of fans are in the Trope of "No man wants an Amazon"...then to tack it on really thick as a final "F you" to Aveline fans like me they go and make it so Aveline is FOREVER out of reach to us. She was the only character I was even remotely interested in and couldn't care less about the any of the others. So am I simply bitter? perhaps a little...but as a whole I just personaly think it makes it harder to immerse myself where everyone just happens to be Bi for fan service.

[Razaroh]

misoretu9 wrote...

Razaroh wrote...

Anders and Isabela are bisexual, but Merrill and Fenris are not.

Right, they are gay.

No, they're elves. They already have a race barrier to overcome, would gender be such big a deal in comparison? It's not like in real life  where everyone is the same but with a different coat of paint.

Think Tali's romance, how she gushes about F!Shepard up until 'It's too bad you're a woman.'

[TallBearNC]

Razaroh wrote...

Russalka wrote...
This is exactly why I do not understand why every love interest being bisexual is a problem to people.
Never mind the kind of people who killed Zevran not because he wanted to assassinate the Warden, but because he was bi.

This, so much. Everyone being bisexual is more likely to hurt Bioware (and EA) than it is to help them. I can't see them doing it.

Anders and Isabela are bisexual, but Merrill and Fenris are not. Yes, all the romances are open to either gender, but I think the writers took a different route than just turning everyone Bi to 'please the fans'.

They are? how do you know? Or are you basing this off the books? If so, the books are a moot point. Look at TV shows, movies, etc.. they often radically change things and characters from the books and just use the books for general concepts.

Who's to say Merrill and Fenris aren't bi? They could be a male/female and be married and still be bi and be a swinger couple for all you know

I DOUBT this will hurt EA/BW because they did what most of the players wanted

Modifié par TallBearNC, 05 mars 2011 - 08:23 .

[Razaroh]

TallBearNC wrote...
They are? how do you know? Or are you basing this off the books? If so, the books are a moot point. Look at TV shows, movies, etc.. they often radically change things and characters from the books and just use the books for general concepts.

Who's to say Merrill and Fenris aren't bi? They could be a male/female and be married and still be bi and be a swinger couple for all you know

Nope, nothing but baseless speculation on my part. A gut feeling that has led me down the wrong path before. It has also led me to a river of cupcakes, so it could go either way.

And perhaps we hang out with different players. The ones I know hated that Zevran was so open. But personal experience doesn't count for much in these situations.

Modifié par Razaroh, 05 mars 2011 - 08:28 .

[AkiKishi]

Razaroh wrote...
No, they're elves. They already have a race barrier to overcome, would gender be such big a deal in comparison? It's not like in real life  where everyone is the same but with a different coat of paint.

Think Tali's romance, how she gushes about F!Shepard up until 'It's too bad you're a woman.'

I really wanted to do Tali as a FemShep, but I respect her rights as an independent character to refuse. It seems that there are two opposing views here.

1. It's my game I should be able to do whatever the hell I like. Stuff is only here to make my fantasies come true.
2. The characters have their own wills and are not puppets. Making everyone Bi will damage the believability of the setting.

Did I sum that up ok ?

Modifié par BobSmith101, 05 mars 2011 - 08:27 .

[Isaidlunch]

I'm not sure what the problem is. If your Hawke doesn't same-sex romance either Fenris or Merrill you can go ahead and assume they're straight*and you have the exact same amount of bisexual party members as Origins.

If you want to keep your immersion then simply don't same-sex romance Fenris or Merrill. People are overreacting to this idea that all 4 are bisexual.

* Assuming of course that's how Fenris + Merrill's romances work.

Modifié par Kazanth, 05 mars 2011 - 08:27 .

[InvaderErl]

I think that is very spot-on.

[Tyrium]

The only problem I have with this is if Anders refers to a male ex-lover while I'm romancing him as a female. This then removes my option to have a straight romance. If its done so that only triggers with a male, awesome. That way we can all have straight, bi or gay romances.