237 réponses à ce sujet

[TallBearNC]

Razaroh wrote...

TallBearNC wrote...
They are? how do you know? Or are you basing this off the books? If so, the books are a moot point. Look at TV shows, movies, etc.. they often radically change things and characters from the books and just use the books for general concepts.

Who's to say Merrill and Fenris aren't bi? They could be a male/female and be married and still be bi and be a swinger couple for all you know

Nope, nothing but baseless speculation on my part. A gut feeling that has led me down the wrong path before. It has also led me to a river of cupcakes, so it could go either way.

LOL! Ok I have decided I like you. You have a sense of humor heheheh. Sorry if my reply was a lil on the harsh side. I was just challenging you on how you came to that conslusion

[InvaderErl]

damn it, *sigh*

@BobSmith101
I think that is very spot-on,

[TheRevanchist]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Razaroh wrote...
No, they're elves. They already have a race barrier to overcome, would gender be such big a deal in comparison? It's not like in real life  where everyone is the same but with a different coat of paint.

Think Tali's romance, how she gushes about F!Shepard up until 'It's too bad you're a woman.'

I really wanted to do Tali as a FemShep, but I respect her rights as an independent character to refuse. It seems that there are two opposing views here.

1. It's my game I should be able to do whatever the hell I like. Stuff is only here to make my fantasies come true.
2. The characters have their own wills and are not puppets. Making everyone Bi will damage the believability of the setting.

Did I sum that up ok ?

Jackpot sir...I happen to be in the second camp...but yes...thats is basicly what this thread is about.

[Rockpopple]

You know, Zevran and Isabela didn't make passes at the Warden/Hawke because they're bi. They made passes at the Warden because they're ****s.

I get people being squicky about characters pitching woo at them that they don't want. Like Merrill if you're playing a FemHawke or Fenris if playing maleHawke.... but I don't think that's going to happen. They're not ****s like Zevran. They're only going to show interest once YOU show interest in them.

Then in that case, they won't be "bi", they'll be whatever you're playing them. Gay, Straight or bi. It's your choice. So in that case, the immersion isn't really broken.

Besides, it's not like you can have a romance with anyone you want. There are plenty of characters in the game and in your party that won't respond to you no matter how much you try. So bounderies exist.

Modifié par Rockpopple, 05 mars 2011 - 08:31 .

[TallBearNC]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Razaroh wrote...
No, they're elves. They already have a race barrier to overcome, would gender be such big a deal in comparison? It's not like in real life  where everyone is the same but with a different coat of paint.

Think Tali's romance, how she gushes about F!Shepard up until 'It's too bad you're a woman.'

I really wanted to do Tali as a FemShep, but I respect her rights as an independent character to refuse. It seems that there are two opposing views here.

1. It's my game I should be able to do whatever the hell I like. Stuff is only here to make my fantasies come true.
2. The characters have their own wills and are not puppets. Making everyone Bi will damage the believability of the setting.

Did I sum that up ok ?

Yes you did, and very well. I'm of camp #1. Other people are of camp #2. Neither is right or wrong. It comes down to each person, and no gaming company can ever make both camps happy

[Russalka]

How does it damage the realism if within your game they might not be bisexual at all?

[Isaidlunch]

The Water God wrote...

According to this poll:
http://social.biowar...94/polls/15857/

the majority voted no.

You can't use that poll for what you're trying to use it for because that was whether people thought all romances were bi, not whether they wanted them all to be bi.

Modifié par Kazanth, 05 mars 2011 - 08:33 .

[InvaderErl]

@Russalka

See this idea of them switching orientation between maleHawke and LadyHawke is another HUGE thing that bothers me. Its as BobSmith put so well if they're puppets rather than the fleshed out in the same manner that the Origin's characters were.

[TallBearNC]

Russalka wrote...

How does it damage the realism if within your game they might not be bisexual at all?

It's just the way some people view gaming and their brain works. It's not a homophobe thing.

Example... I know a few gay people who do NOT like the way DA2 is done. They want a mix of straight, bi, AND gay characters. I don't agree with them. I want to play however I chose, but they have that right to think that way, and they aren't being hetrophic either heheh.

[Razaroh]

BobSmith101 wrote...
I really wanted to do Tali as a FemShep, but I respect her rights as an independent character to refuse. It seems that there are two opposing views here.

1. It's my game I should be able to do whatever the hell I like. Stuff is only here to make my fantasies come true.
2. The characters have their own wills and are not puppets. Making everyone Bi will damage the believability of the setting.

Did I sum that up ok ?

Yes.

But the ME team and DA team have shown very different attitudes towards the subject. ME couldn't have a f/f romance (not counting the asari) without putting an m/m one in. They didn't do it for believability sake. 'Canon Shepard isn't gay' sums up the reality of the situation perfectly.

It's different for the DA devs. I believe that it is something they can pull something like this off without being pandering. Pandering being a subjective word.

[TallBearNC]

The Water God wrote...

TallBearNC wrote...

Razaroh wrote...

Russalka wrote...
This is exactly why I do not understand why every love interest being bisexual is a problem to people.
Never mind the kind of people who killed Zevran not because he wanted to assassinate the Warden, but because he was bi.

This, so much. Everyone being bisexual is more likely to hurt Bioware (and EA) than it is to help them. I can't see them doing it.

Anders and Isabela are bisexual, but Merrill and Fenris are not. Yes, all the romances are open to either gender, but I think the writers took a different route than just turning everyone Bi to 'please the fans'.

They are? how do you know? Or are you basing this off the books? If so, the books are a moot point. Look at TV shows, movies, etc.. they often radically change things and characters from the books and just use the books for general concepts.

Who's to say Merrill and Fenris aren't bi? They could be a male/female and be married and still be bi and be a swinger couple for all you know

I DOUBT this will hurt EA/BW because they did what most of the players wanted

According to this poll:
http://social.biowar...94/polls/15857/

the majority voted no.

That's just ONE poll and doesn't count all the direct email feedback, and other forms of feedback.

LOL and it's just a poll for people who even bother to come to the forums... and is that even an official BW poll or a user create poll? 

Modifié par TallBearNC, 05 mars 2011 - 08:35 .

[Lurid Jester]

TallBearNC wrote...

That's why I think people get upset is they think people are homophobic or biphobic. I DO understand people's concerns about story lines being lost, not being immersed.

It's not that they think everyone is homophobic, it's that they want people to be homophobic.  That way it is easier for them to play the part of the victim.  It's a cop-out and results in discussions devolving into arguments where one side finally throws up their hands stating "You don't agree because you hate gay people!".  


Have gay characters in the game.  Have bisexual characters in the game.  Have straight characters in the game.  By all means do that.  It's an accurate representation of the kinds of people I will probably run into any time I step out of my front door.  Hell, it's an accurate representation of the kinds of people that I have walking in my front door.  
I just don't understand this irrational desire  to have everyone romance-able by anyone.  That makes them less individual characters and more 2 dimensional cardboard cutouts with only a few superficial differences.  Maybe 'Male-NPC-A' has absolutely no interest what-so-ever in women, being ultimately more comfortable with other men.  Perhaps 'Female-NPC-Y' is able to see a person for who they are and can fall in love without being caught up  by their gender.

If you are going to implement a romance system for your game, give it a little more depth and complexity than simply reducing it to a select button combination to get in an any NPC's pants.  

Male-Hawke should NOT be able to seduce a lesbian NPC.  It's insulting, and screams of chauvinistic statements like "that lesbian just needed the right man to set her straight!".  

[Suron]

god these are so effin stupid.

BioWare should just design a character completely..down to his possible sexuality. Not everyone in the world is bi-sexual, straight, or gay. So not every damn character you can romance should be either.

Fine let Hawke be unless the story dictates otherwise.

and here's a clue....If BioWare was to make him straight up gay or straight up...straight..that in NO WAY means they hate one side or the other nor do they have any kind of bigotry towards it.

The cries for everyone and everything being bi-sexual is idiotic.

Hell even in Mass Effect you CAN play a gay Shepard..you just don't have anyone you can romance..that in no way means you can't "play" him as gay.

Like with Alistair..he's an idiot, a little soft, but nothing about his personality strikes me as gay. He wasn't, and should NOT have been gay. End of story.

This whole politically correct BS needs to take a flying leap.

[Isaidlunch]

The Water God wrote...

If you read some of the comments alot of people were using it as a do you or do you not want all bi's poll. Very few people voted on what they thought would probably happen.

It was part of an "All Bi Betting Thread" in which several all bi supporters voted no despite how much they wanted it. As long as the poll does not ask "Do you want all LI's to be bi?" you can't use that for what you're trying to use it for.

Modifié par Kazanth, 05 mars 2011 - 08:40 .

[Russalka]

I resent it being called political correctness or fan service as well without any proof. And I still find realism, when it comes to a fantasy world and people's own experience, too subjective of an argument.

Modifié par Russalka, 05 mars 2011 - 08:42 .

[Isaidlunch]

Suron wrote...

Like with Alistair..he's an idiot, a little soft, but nothing about his personality strikes me as gay. He wasn't, and should NOT have been gay. End of story.

You're free to have your opinion but what type of personality would you consider "gay"?

[TallBearNC]

Sir Jools wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Razaroh wrote...
No, they're elves. They already have a race barrier to overcome, would gender be such big a deal in comparison? It's not like in real life  where everyone is the same but with a different coat of paint.

Think Tali's romance, how she gushes about F!Shepard up until 'It's too bad you're a woman.'

I really wanted to do Tali as a FemShep, but I respect her rights as an independent character to refuse. It seems that there are two opposing views here.

1. It's my game I should be able to do whatever the hell I like. Stuff is only here to make my fantasies come true.
2. The characters have their own wills and are not puppets. Making everyone Bi will damage the believability of the setting.

Did I sum that up ok ?

Jackpot sir...I happen to be in the second camp...but yes...thats is basicly what this thread is about.

Camp 1 is actually unviable. Because if it was, I would have killed Alistair after 5 minutes of forcibly having him in my party, I would have blackmailed Moradin into violating and killing Branka in front of Oghren, and I would have killed the Tranquil at Ostagar on spot just because he irritated me. And Loghain too, since he might as well have been wearing a "I'M THE EVIL GUY" t-shirt.

In other words, these kind of games are there to weave a pre-made story, therefore there is only so much freedom of choice and action, including who is a fling option and who is not. There are limitations inherent to the medium, let alone business-driven limitation regarding how much time bioware was willing to put into allowing players to romance anything that "breathes" in their game.

camp 1 is unviable FOR YOU. It's not just unviable. It is a VERY valid state of mind and gaming. If it's not for you, then say it's not for you. What you said above is what YOU, and some others would do.

[InvaderErl]

Then nobody can have a discussion with you. Multiple posters have stated their opinions, many eloquently and in a remarkably civil manner and you're not really adding much at this point.

[Aurgelmir]

If everyone is gay/bi in ferelden then the Darkspawn will just end up breeding their way to victory.

Seriously its ridiculous to even discuss this. First some people wanted the occasional bi character to romance, which I'm fine with, so Bioware throw them a couple and they're satiated for a time. Now they want all bi, whats next if you get that? all gay cast?

From what I hear they've recycled levels and they've watered down content, Its frustrating enough that they're spending time making content for a vocal minority when so much else has been left out.

[InvaderErl]

* glares at edit button

Sorry that was at *Russalka.

[Russalka]

InvaderErl wrote...

Then nobody can have a discussion with you. Multiple posters have stated their opinions, many eloquently and in a remarkably civil manner and you're not really adding much at this point.

I was leaving anyway. I try to accept everyone's opinions but I am getting too personal with the subject.