237 réponses à ce sujet

[Aurgelmir]

Razaroh wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...I love how some are saying all the characters were redefined to be bisexual when none of us wrote these characters or interacted with them in a way that would show us their sexual preferences (except Isabela obviously). 

Yet somehow they're redefined? Is everyone straight by default or something?

White, heterosexual and male is the default in every media. There needs to be a special reason for anything else.

Opposed to White, Gay and Female, what you think it should be. I'm trying to think of all those characters in fantasy adventures who meet that criteria. Hmmm, oh wait! I'm sure there was an adult parody of lord of the rings(ringholes?) thats sounds like just your thing.

See I can be sarcastic too.<_<

[Curlain]

I have no problem with the 4 LI's if they were conceived of by the writers as bi-sexual from the start. It would mean they would retain the depth of personality and characterisation I've come to expect with BioWare games. However, if as I fear, some of the characters have been converted into bi-sexual characters post their creation (from being previously gay or straight) then I feel some of their depth as a character (at least in the romance aspect) will be lost.

This is even worse if it's a case of the characters becoming 'malable' to the sex of Hawke, (so Merrill for example is straight with male Hawke and gay with female Hawke), I fear the depth of characterisation will suffer. It makes me worry what one review said is correct, that while  the characters in DA2 are believable and engaging, they lack the depth and characterisation of the Origins companions

Modifié par Curlain, 05 mars 2011 - 09:20 .

[CubbieBlue66]

Blackened25 wrote...
No, camp 1 is unviable because of the restrictions placed upon players by the fact that they're playing a computer game. It has set parameters and set rules that a player can never violate, no matter what their fantasies or desire may be. I can never choose to side with the Archdemon, I can never choose to pack my party off to some other part of the world, etc.. Camp 1 has to put up with a ton of restrictions on what they can or can't do, which is why there never has been or will be a true roleplaying experience in crpg form. I think camp 2 delivers a better game, with more believeable and more consistant characters, but that's just my opinion.

That's my general take on it as well.

What about those of us who prefer to romance elves? Should we be able to make Alistair an elf? Because then the whole bastard prince of Ferelden storyline becomes an issue.

Ultimately, characters need definition to be interesting. And by all means, bisexual characters can certainly be interesting. But ultimately, DA:O did something very right in that they seemed to have created the characters and then decided who would be romanceable. I'll be very disappointed if I'm playing through this game and it's obvious that Bioware told the writers "make 4 bi love interests" and they all seem to be woefully inadequate. Likewise, I don't want to feel like the game was nearly complete and Bioware tacked on romances to characters that don't quite fit, just in order to satisfy the community.

[xThunderblazex]

Non-straight people will never be happy unless all characters are bi. If you have some straight, gay, and bi characters...people will ****** and moan. God forbid they don't get their pixelmance.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Every LI is bi? oh come on... Some people being gay is very much fine, maye 1 or 2 bi's to spice things up and give options, but the 4 characters who can be interested in Hawke are all bisexual? This feels like fan-service more than anything, seriously. We'll see how it is handled in game, but having Fenris hit on a male (or even mage) Hawke would be jarring according to what we saw of his personnality. It makes them a bit less unique, like if they are only here to satisfy people's fantasies rather than being fleshed out characters having a purpose beyond helping you kill stuff and being boned. I know that Allistair and Morrigan (especially her) being gay would have kinda ruined their characters for me.

There's something else too. The 4 LIs are, let's be polite, the weirder members of the party; a pirate lady wearing very little, an elf that seemingly practices blood magic and consorts with demons, a sociopathic superpowered warrior that kills without a second tought with his fists, and a cannibalistic abomination fueled by vengeance. Them all being also bi doesn't quite ring with me, as if only people with severe problems could be that. I dunno, seems a bit sketchy.

And please stop with the ''homophobic'!!!' cries. I and others are not saying being bi is wrong or anything, but decrying the decision to put so many of them in. The fact this is a game and lots of people can be bi because personnal taste/social stigma is dictated by the people who make the gameworld doesn't mean they HAVE to be.

[trying_touch]

Veracruz wrote...

TallBearNC wrote...

If BW wanted to keep EVERYONE happy, the best solution would be to make all romanceable characters "bi"

It's impossible to keep everybody happy...

Every character bi? The idea sucks...

even if bioware can't make all players happy, all bi is the best compromise romance-wise... if you play your character ignoring the meta-knowledge that your targeted LI can be romanced by a hawke of the same-gender, then your argument of "base-desire dictating LI sexuality" disappears with said meta-knowledge...

just play the game as you want to, who cares how others play theirs?

[Ryzaki]

Razaroh wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...I love how some are saying all the characters were redefined to be bisexual when none of us wrote these characters or interacted with them in a way that would show us their sexual preferences (except Isabela obviously). 

Yet somehow they're redefined? Is everyone straight by default or something?

White, heterosexual and male is the default in every media. There needs to be a special reason for anything else.

Ah. How silly of me to forget. 

[coolide]

Razaroh wrote...

I doubt that everyone is truly bisexual, people have to much of a negative connection with the word for Bioware to expect to come out of it unscratched.

Isabela and Anders are bi. Fenris and Merrill make an exception for both Hawke's race and gender. Now that doesn't seem like such a stretch by any means.

Recent research has scientifically proven that no one is actually bisexual, and that normally they are just gay and confused.

[TheRevanchist]

This appraoch...when striped to the bare bones of it is like this to me...they are less "characters" and more "sex dolls for the player to play with"

[Ryzaki]

kylecouch wrote...

This appraoch...when striped to the bare bones of it is like this to me...they are less "characters" and more "sex dolls for the player to play with"

Hm. I felt that way in origins. Nothing's really changed to me. 

Morrigan falls in love with the PC regardless of the PCs views, personality just because e says what she wants to hear and throws jewlery at her (or heck you don't even have to do the latter). The PC could be the very epitome of what she finds weak and pathetic but she'll still love him. 

Alistair can fall in love with the PC regardless even if the P is the same exact kind of person that would make him sick otherwise. 

They were always dolls. Being dolls that only one person could play with didn't change that. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 mars 2011 - 09:23 .

[TheRevanchist]

Ryzaki wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

This appraoch...when striped to the bare bones of it is like this to me...they are less "characters" and more "sex dolls for the player to play with"

Hm. I felt that way in origins. Nothing's really changed to me. 

I didn't say Origins is Da Best...I just think DA2 did it worse.

[Ryzaki]

kylecouch wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

This appraoch...when striped to the bare bones of it is like this to me...they are less "characters" and more "sex dolls for the player to play with"

Hm. I felt that way in origins. Nothing's really changed to me. 

I didn't say Origins is Da Best...I just think DA2 did it worse.

I feel the opposite. At leasti n DA2 it's consistent across the board. 

And frankly I have little doubt it will be perfectly in character for all the LIs to be bi. I doubt BW would've done it otherwise. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 mars 2011 - 09:25 .

[Razaroh]

Aurgelmir wrote...
Opposed to White, Gay and Female, what you think it should be. I'm trying to think of all those characters in fantasy adventures who meet that criteria. Hmmm, oh wait! I'm sure there was an adult parody of lord of the rings(ringholes?) thats sounds like just your thing.

See I can be sarcastic too.<_<

Why does she have to be white and gay? Why not a black asexual women? I'm trying to think of all the reasons you wouldn't want her to be black.

See I can make offensive presumptions too.

PS: Could I get a link to that parody?

[Arppis]

kylecouch wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

This appraoch...when striped to the bare bones of it is like this to me...they are less "characters" and more "sex dolls for the player to play with"

Hm. I felt that way in origins. Nothing's really changed to me. 

I didn't say Origins is Da Best...I just think DA2 did it worse.

You played the full game already, eh?

Does any of this really matter? We haven't even played the game yet. Who knows how they have made these romances? Maybe they have taken everything in consideration and done things well? Alistair and Morrigan felt so "special" because they were center in the storyline, thus they were written a bit better than those others. They could have been easily made "bi" in believeable manner.

Let's see how the game is and then we can smash it to pieces bit by bit, eh?

Modifié par Arppis, 05 mars 2011 - 09:29 .

[TheRevanchist]

Ryzaki wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

This appraoch...when striped to the bare bones of it is like this to me...they are less "characters" and more "sex dolls for the player to play with"

Hm. I felt that way in origins. Nothing's really changed to me. 

I didn't say Origins is Da Best...I just think DA2 did it worse.

I feel the opposite. At leasti n DA2 it's consistent across the board. 

And frankly I have little doubt it will be perfectly in character for all the LIs to be bi. I doubt BW would've done it otherwise. 

See to me thats the problem...the same sexual consistency for everybody...I personaly feel they lose depth when all the companions just happen to ALL be Bi. It feels very artifical and it strains the believebility of the setting when you just happen to have so many Bi people to hang around you.

[Aurgelmir]

Razaroh wrote...

Why does she have to be white and gay? Why not a black asexual women? I'm trying to think of all the reasons you wouldn't want her to be black.

I would, but the dev team is so busy turning an entire continent into the 'Blue Oyster Bar' that they just don't have time to cater to the other minorities.

[trying_touch]

sigh... if you just play the game as you want, you will never have to know who's bi or otherwise, unless you try to know....

[Ryzaki]

kylecouch wrote...
See to me thats the problem...the same sexual consistency for everybody...I personaly feel they lose depth when all the companions just happen to ALL be Bi. It feels very artifical and it strains the believebility of the setting when you just happen to have so many Bi people to hang around you.

Really? I don't. I thought all the LIs in DAO were very deep. I actually preferred Zev's romance most of all (though I can't stand the character). To m the believeability of the setting is already at ridculous levels with all the ridculously overpowered and insane people you meet and/or take out. 

4 people? That's not a lot. Not to me. 

That said we have different standards for believeiblity it seems. Mine was destroyed the second default Hawke was the face of the legend despite the guy running around Kirkwall for 10 years. 

I'm supposed to believe no one knows what he looks like? Pfft. That's far more immersion breaking than a few bisexual party members. 

[Isaidlunch]

I keep seeing personality brought up. Alistair could've been a believable bisexual because sexuality doesn't have to have anything to do with the rest of their personality.

xThunderblazex wrote...

Non-straight people will never be happy unless all characters are bi. If you have some straight, gay, and bi characters...people will ****** and moan. God forbid they don't get their pixelmance.

If you're going to come in here and be condescending to those who enjoy romances then please do us all a favor and stay out of the thread.

[MorningBird]

Guys, the romances in general are fan-service. They're a service provided by BioWare that can enrich the role-play experience of their players (all of their players, not just the privileged majority) by allowing them an opportunity to add another layer of characterization to their PC. If we're going to start throwing the phrase 'fan-service' around as though it's absolutely despicable for a game company to do anything for their fans ever (whether they make up the majority or minority) then they might as well scrap the romances in Dragon Age altogether.

But people like them--enjoy them--so that likely won't happen.

That being said, can we please stop acting as though gay and lesbian players marched up to Edmonton, pointed a gun to BioWare's head, and demanded that they make all of the love interests equal-opportunity?

The general consensus of gay and lesbian players (just based off of what I've read on these forums) is that they'd LIKE it if they had more choices where the LI's are concerned. However, they're still glad that they get a choice at all (even if it's between celibacy and a character they're not particularly fond of.)

BioWare is one of the few companies that 'caters' to us, and we're thankful they give us a slice of the pie, regardless as to size.

That being said, am I happy that my choices have been expanded in DA2? Definitely! Do I think people have a right to voice their dissatisfaction with the change? Well, I'd prefer it if we could all wait until the game is out before 'dissing' the concept (note: I also think we should wait until the game comes out before we start praising it as well) but by all means, voice your dissatisfaction.

I would just appreciate it if we could stop the passive-aggressive attack on gay/lesbian players as though IT'S ALL THEIR FAULT BioWare made this change.

BioWare have stated numerous times that THEY own Dragon Age, not the fans. If they can't do something due to resources or budget, or because something just doesn't mesh with the game they're trying to create--or heck--if they just plain do not want to do it... they won't. It's as simple as that.

If all of the LI's are bi, it's because BioWare wanted to do it that way, not because of waves of gay and lesbian 'fan-wanking.'