237 réponses à ce sujet

[TheRevanchist]

Arppis wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

This appraoch...when striped to the bare bones of it is like this to me...they are less "characters" and more "sex dolls for the player to play with"

Hm. I felt that way in origins. Nothing's really changed to me. 

I didn't say Origins is Da Best...I just think DA2 did it worse.

You played the full game already, eh?

I don't need to play it to know it's worse from my standpoint. I feel everyone being Bi is totaly fake and and forced simply so fans can bang as many pixels as possible. They are each less unique as an individual as a result of the decision and more like...they came from the same pot, but were each given a different seasoning to be sorta different. This is how I see the situation...period. I feel immersion has been damaged since I have a hard time seeing the compaions as actual people rather then sex toys presented for fan service.

[Ryzaki]

Morning Bird. I want to have your babies.

[trying_touch]

The Water God wrote...

trying_touch wrote...

sigh... if you just play the game as you want, you will never have to know who's bi or otherwise, unless you try to know....

If their bisexuality is that unnoticable, its even worse.

how is that worse? there's no standard as far as how a bisexual acts... so you wouldn't know, unless you ask... this prevents the homophobic from being hit-on, and the gays from having a valid point to complain about...

[InvaderErl]

My original intention was to romance Aveline but when I found out she wasn't a love interest I more or less snapped my knuckles with an "Aw dang," I was upset but I understood that Bioware had decided that she wasn't suitable for romance. Fine, no problem - I wanted the character to be above all consistent and believable.

This business of CLOSE YOUR EYES AND PRETEND that some are advocating just strikes me wrong.

[sevalaricgirl]

Yes but the problem is when they're openly bi like Zevran. He openly says that he'll do anyone. That is when people have a problem. If there were no open references to either/or then no one would have a problem either way. I have no problem with bi characters. I have a problem when a bi character is making a pass at a character that I'm seeing in game, ie Zevran and Alistair talking about a tattoo. Zev said that he'd have to bathe Alistair in oils and massage them in.

[Ryzaki]

Sir Jools wrote...

There is also another reason that makes "fixed", full-fledged characters preferrable. If during the first playthrough Dog (random, fuctional character) is straight, how would one justify it being gay or bi during the second or third playthrough? This would be a mood-killer and an immersion-breaker, as it would, indeed, make the character feel closer to sex objects ("sex dolls", to quote kylecouch) rather than characters with a (well-sculpted) personality of their own.

Just imagine. First playthrough, Alistair is the bastard prince. Next playthrough, Oghren is, while Leliana is the daughter of the Witch of the Wilds, and Dog is a lost paragon...

Because they weren't approached by Hawke and never questioned their preferences? Just a thought. 

And that is nothing like sexuality. It would be closer to hardening Alistair in one playthrough and not in another which you could already do. 

[TallBearNC]

dupe post

Modifié par TallBearNC, 05 mars 2011 - 09:44 .

[trying_touch]

kylecouch wrote...

I don't need to play it to know it's worse from my standpoint. I feel everyone being Bi is totaly fake and and forced simply so fans can bang as many pixels as possible....

you're being over-dramatic... chill, take it for what it is... romance in games will always be fake and forced... the sooner you destroy your walls of disbelief, the better this game will be for you...

[Ryzaki]

MorningBird wrote...

Guys, the romances in general are fan-service. They're a service provided by BioWare that can enrich the role-play experience of their players (all of their players, not just the privileged majority) by allowing them an opportunity to add another layer of characterization to their PC. If we're going to start throwing the phrase 'fan-service' around as though it's absolutely despicable for a game company to do anything for their fans ever (whether they make up the majority or minority) then they might as well scrap the romances in Dragon Age altogether.

But people like them--enjoy them--so that likely won't happen.

That being said, can we please stop acting as though gay and lesbian players marched up to Edmonton, pointed a gun to BioWare's head, and demanded that they make all of the love interests equal-opportunity?

The general consensus of gay and lesbian players (just based off of what I've read on these forums) is that they'd LIKE it if they had more choices where the LI's are concerned. However, they're still glad that they get a choice at all (even if it's between celibacy and a character they're not particularly fond of.)

BioWare is one of the few companies that 'caters' to us, and we're thankful they give us a slice of the pie, regardless as to size.

That being said, am I happy that my choices have been expanded in DA2? Definitely! Do I think people have a right to voice their dissatisfaction with the change? Well, I'd prefer it if we could all wait until the game is out before 'dissing' the concept (note: I also think we should wait until the game comes out before we start praising it as well) but by all means, voice your dissatisfaction.

I would just appreciate it if we could stop the passive-aggressive attack on gay/lesbian players as though IT'S ALL THEIR FAULT BioWare made this change.

BioWare have stated numerous times that THEY own Dragon Age, not the fans. If they can't do something due to resources or budget, or because something just doesn't mesh with the game they're trying to create--or heck--if they just plain do not want to do it... they won't. It's as simple as that.

If all of the LI's are bi, it's because BioWare wanted to do it that way, not because of waves of gay and lesbian 'fan-wanking.'

This. Good lord this. 

[TallBearNC]

kylecouch wrote...

Arppis wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

This appraoch...when striped to the bare bones of it is like this to me...they are less "characters" and more "sex dolls for the player to play with"

Hm. I felt that way in origins. Nothing's really changed to me. 

I didn't say Origins is Da Best...I just think DA2 did it worse.

You played the full game already, eh?

I don't need to play it to know it's worse from my standpoint. I feel everyone being Bi is totaly fake and and forced simply so fans can bang as many pixels as possible. They are each less unique as an individual as a result of the decision and more like...they came from the same pot, but were each given a different seasoning to be sorta different. This is how I see the situation...period. I feel immersion has been damaged since I have a hard time seeing the compaions as actual people rather then sex toys presented for fan service.

Then don't buy it. Or... wait to buy it until you see people's post on how it is... I *really doubt* characters will be just "sex toys"  I'm sure people can make them that... but I think you will find they will have rich personalities and stories.

[TallBearNC]

Sir Jools wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

This appraoch...when striped to the bare bones of it is like this to me...they are less "characters" and more "sex dolls for the player to play with"

Hm. I felt that way in origins. Nothing's really changed to me. 

I didn't say Origins is Da Best...I just think DA2 did it worse.

I feel the opposite. At leasti n DA2 it's consistent across the board. 

And frankly I have little doubt it will be perfectly in character for all the LIs to be bi. I doubt BW would've done it otherwise. 

There is also another reason that makes "fixed", full-fledged characters preferrable. If during the first playthrough Dog (random, fuctional character) is straight, how would one justify it being gay or bi during the second or third playthrough? This would be a mood-killer and an immersion-breaker, as it would, indeed, make the character feel closer to sex objects ("sex dolls", to quote kylecouch) rather than characters with a (well-sculpted) personality of their own.

Just imagine. First playthrough, Alistair is the bastard prince. Next playthrough, Oghren is, while Leliana is the daughter of the Witch of the Wilds, and Dog is a lost paragon...

That would actually be quite fun IMO. Mood killer to you, but not to me.

[Curlain]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sir Jools wrote...

There is also another reason that makes "fixed", full-fledged characters preferrable. If during the first playthrough Dog (random, fuctional character) is straight, how would one justify it being gay or bi during the second or third playthrough? This would be a mood-killer and an immersion-breaker, as it would, indeed, make the character feel closer to sex objects ("sex dolls", to quote kylecouch) rather than characters with a (well-sculpted) personality of their own.

Just imagine. First playthrough, Alistair is the bastard prince. Next playthrough, Oghren is, while Leliana is the daughter of the Witch of the Wilds, and Dog is a lost paragon...

Because they weren't approached by Hawke and never questioned their preferences? Just a thought. 

And that is nothing like sexuality. It would be closer to hardening Alistair in one playthrough and not in another which you could already do. 

I hated the hardening mechanic, and never used it.  It also just gave you to much power over your companions (more then you could ever have over someone in rl unless some kind of abusive control relationship is going on), and when used reduced the feel of them as independent characters with their own personalities and wills.  As a result I refused to use it

Modifié par Curlain, 05 mars 2011 - 09:43 .

[Isaidlunch]

The Water God wrote...

Kazanth wrote...

I keep seeing personality brought up. Alistair could've been a believable bisexual because sexuality doesn't have to have anything to do with the rest of their personality.

Alistair would've made a great "Fake" bisexual. 

And why is that?

[Arppis]

kylecouch wrote...

Arppis wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

This appraoch...when striped to the bare bones of it is like this to me...they are less "characters" and more "sex dolls for the player to play with"

Hm. I felt that way in origins. Nothing's really changed to me. 

I didn't say Origins is Da Best...I just think DA2 did it worse.

You played the full game already, eh?

I don't need to play it to know it's worse from my standpoint. I feel everyone being Bi is totaly fake and and forced simply so fans can bang as many pixels as possible. They are each less unique as an individual as a result of the decision and more like...they came from the same pot, but were each given a different seasoning to be sorta different. This is how I see the situation...period. I feel immersion has been damaged since I have a hard time seeing the compaions as actual people rather then sex toys presented for fan service.

Still, play the game before you judge. It might not be as bad as you make it out to be.

Or do like I am going to do: Don't romance anyone.

[TallBearNC]

xThunderblazex wrote...

Non-straight people will never be happy unless all characters are bi. If you have some straight, gay, and bi characters...people will ****** and moan. God forbid they don't get their pixelmance.

VERY VERY WRONG. I know RL straight friends who would highly disagree with what you just said. Your comment is not an opinion. It is blatant ignorance. Many of my straight friends like the idea of having bi, etc characters so they can play and have a better gaming experience

So yes, in this case, please take your homophobic attitude to another thread

nice attempt at trolling the thread btw

[Ryzaki]

Sir Jools wrote...

You lost me there...

I'm saying the characters aren't "fixed" to begin with and are dolls for the PC from the start. This isn't something new. I really don't understand the irritation over it. Ignore it just like I ignored Leliana's hardening. You don't have use it. 

Curlain wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Sir Jools wrote...

There is also another reason that makes "fixed", full-fledged characters preferrable. If during the first playthrough Dog (random, fuctional character) is straight, how would one justify it being gay or bi during the second or third playthrough? This would be a mood-killer and an immersion-breaker, as it would, indeed, make the character feel closer to sex objects ("sex dolls", to quote kylecouch) rather than characters with a (well-sculpted) personality of their own.

Just imagine. First playthrough, Alistair is the bastard prince. Next playthrough, Oghren is, while Leliana is the daughter of the Witch of the Wilds, and Dog is a lost paragon...

Because they weren't approached by Hawke and never questioned their preferences? Just a thought. 

And that is nothing like sexuality. It would be closer to hardening Alistair in one playthrough and not in another which you could already do. 

I hated the hardening mechanic, and never used it.  It also just gave you to much power over your companions (more then you could ever have over someone in rl unless some kind of abusive control relationship is going on), and when used reduced the feel of them as independent characters with their own personalities and wills.  As a result I refused to use it

Ah. Indeed. But the fact remains that the characters were always pretty malleable to he PCs wishes. This isn't something new. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 mars 2011 - 09:46 .

[TallBearNC]

Curlain wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Sir Jools wrote...

There is also another reason that makes "fixed", full-fledged characters preferrable. If during the first playthrough Dog (random, fuctional character) is straight, how would one justify it being gay or bi during the second or third playthrough? This would be a mood-killer and an immersion-breaker, as it would, indeed, make the character feel closer to sex objects ("sex dolls", to quote kylecouch) rather than characters with a (well-sculpted) personality of their own.

Just imagine. First playthrough, Alistair is the bastard prince. Next playthrough, Oghren is, while Leliana is the daughter of the Witch of the Wilds, and Dog is a lost paragon...

Because they weren't approached by Hawke and never questioned their preferences? Just a thought. 

And that is nothing like sexuality. It would be closer to hardening Alistair in one playthrough and not in another which you could already do. 

I hated the hardening mechanic, and never used it.  It also just gave you to much power over your companions (more then you could ever have over someone in rl unless some kind of abusive control relationship is going on), and when used reduced the feel of them as independent characters with their own personalities and wills.  As a result I refused to use it

I only didn't like it because, at first, no one knew the consequences, and if you chose the wrong one for you, you'd have to completely start the game over  - unless you had a save file to go back to and lose a TON of gaming hours. Alistair had a very immature personality, and I can see how his experiences would effect him. So I totally understand and agree with how they did that. I don't agree that it wasn't clear what the choice of a seemingly unimporant quest would effect the ending.

[TheRevanchist]

TallBearNC wrote...


Then don't buy it. Or... wait to buy it until you see people's post on how it is... I *really doubt* characters will be just "sex toys"  I'm sure people can make them that... but I think you will find they will have rich personalities and stories.

If they don't have cheap tack on romances like DAO did for the Bi characters then I might take it back. But as it stands I dont trust Bioware with Bi romances because they don't do them right. Even then a few Bi romances? thats fine...but EVERY LI being Bi? I just can't accept the concept, I'm normaly a very open minded person but this is just a pill I can't swallow.

[Chriagon]

sevalaricgirl wrote...

I have a problem when a bi character is making a pass at a character that I'm seeing in game, ie Zevran and Alistair talking about a tattoo. Zev said that he'd have to bathe Alistair in oils and massage them in.

Hmm, I thought that was pretty funny.

[Arppis]

kylecouch wrote...

TallBearNC wrote...


Then don't buy it. Or... wait to buy it until you see people's post on how it is... I *really doubt* characters will be just "sex toys"  I'm sure people can make them that... but I think you will find they will have rich personalities and stories.

If they don't have cheap tack on romances like DAO did for the Bi characters then I might take it back. But as it stands I dont trust Bioware with Bi romances because they don't do them right. Even then a few Bi romances? thats fine...but EVERY LI being Bi? I just can't accept the concept, I'm normaly a very open minded person but this is just a pill I can't swallow.

That's too bad. I'm straight myself, but I don't see any problems with characters swining in both directions. I don't think it will destroy their personalities and if you think it's strange that there is 4 bi-sexuals in the same group, I could say that it is strange that there are so many capable and unique people in the same group, without any weak links. And as some people have already said, these games have always revolved around the PC and his "super charaismatic" personality that makes him able to change people's thoughts and such.

[TallBearNC]

I keep hearing a people saying "games must have SET story lines, SET personalites, SET this.. SET that..." That's how games have almost always been done...

It seems to me with how BW is doing DA, and allowing the modding is they are seeing if they can make a game that breaks that mold? Ever read a "chose your own adventure book?"

A game doesn't have to be set. If a company like, BW, had the time, budget, and skills, they can make a VERY open ended world where you can have multiple endings, different romance options on each play through, etc.

Some of you don't like a more sandbox option and want the structure. Others of do like the idea. And it's not just about character sexuality either.

If this were most any other game, these discussions would never take place. Why? Those games are SET... set is stone. No modding. No edditing. You are given a story, and you play through it, and sometimes your choices have mild to moderate effects.

It's been VERY clear, since DAO, that BW is trying to break out of that mold.

For some of you, it seems that you fear they have gone to far. Well, the game isn't out yet. So you DONT know. Neither do I. We do know one thing for sure: All party members are romancable by any gender. THATS ALL... unless you were a beta tester. If that in itself is a deal breaker, then done buy the game. Otherwise wait and see.

Modifié par TallBearNC, 05 mars 2011 - 09:55 .