211 réponses à ce sujet

[Icy Magebane]

JoshPloof wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Well, I think the OP is correct. Not that I disagree with the idea. The folks at Bioware have bills to pay, just like everybody else. It's well within their rights to use DLC to sell people different outfits for their characters.

(Note: I do not like the idea, but I don't think it's anything aside from a smart business decision)

If they sell a million copies of Dragon age, they make 60 million dollars. Not even including the exiled prince DLC. That's more than enough to pay any bills they may have.

You can never make enough money.  Like I said, I don't like it, but companies survive through the years by turning a profit.  Maybe Bioware needs to focus on gameplay and story more... maybe they should try to make games of high quality and avoid appealling to the masses.  Whatever.  They are still entitled to earn as much money as they possibly can. 

[ladydesire]

JoshPloof wrote...

crusadeonacid wrote...

And here I thought I was cynical.

I rather like the idea of unique looks for each party member. It isn't as if we aren't able to upgrade them at all.

Can we upgrade their armor or upgrade THEM a la Mass Effect. I really hate how you just put points in a talent in that game and they say it's an adequate level up.

You can add runes to their armors, plus later in game all but Isabela and Fenris will get other outfits as a natural course of game progression.

[JoshPloof]

ladydesire wrote...

JoshPloof wrote...

crusadeonacid wrote...

And here I thought I was cynical.

I rather like the idea of unique looks for each party member. It isn't as if we aren't able to upgrade them at all.

Can we upgrade their armor or upgrade THEM a la Mass Effect. I really hate how you just put points in a talent in that game and they say it's an adequate level up.

You can add runes to their armors, plus later in game all but Isabela and Fenris will get other outfits as a natural course of game progression.

Why not Isabella and Fenris? The two sexier characters and they get stuck with the same clothes?

[SkittlesKat96]

Yeah....but....umm, Bioware is a cool company?

Anyways, my idea is that if the DLC isn't worth your time or money then just don't buy it, cause the original game is good enough (at least that goes for armor, I may disagree with some of the prices for gameplay DLC.)

[RyuKaiser]

Daidoji Tangen wrote...

As for looks, what's the complaint as long as they look cool? I mean it's better than everyone looking the same. I'd rather my people look distinct than being able to change into armor that looks like armor that everyone else is wearing.

I hadn't even thought of this. now, I am excited.

If it's done right, it'll be great. I'm hoping they make it so as you upgrade armors and the like, and they get new look, you unlock them forever, meaning even if you start a new game, you can select them to wear a certain armor look. Mass Effect 2 didn't have that, but I can hope, can't I? Afterall, if I work hard to unlock a certain look for my team mate, I expect to have it since I worked for it.

Surprisingly, the logistics of a New Game+ have entirely escaped some companies. Funny, because much, MUCH older games like Chrono Trigger, and games like Drakengard 2 all got it right...

[Sylvius the Mad]

xnoxiousx wrote...

they want charge us more and more for dlc and different looks

That would be silly.  We can just mod in the new gear ourselves.

Dave of Canada wrote...

Only the look is locked down, you can still customize their clothing's stats and stuff.

That remains to be seen.  We don't now if our ability to adjust our companions' armour statistics is anything like what it was in DAO.

If we can get Isabela's armour (and Merrill's armour) to be as effective as Aveline's armour, then we've lost nothing on the stats side.

But we don't know that yet.

[daywalker03]

JoshPloof wrote...


Why not Isabella and Fenris? The two sexier characters and they get stuck with the same clothes?

I think you answered your own question; in Isabela's case, that's how they want her to be. I'm not certain about Fenris. I can probably tolerate Fenris being in the same outfit the whole game, but Isabela stays home until I can figure out how to get her look to change.

[MitchDragonage]

What are you guys talking about? DA2 has armors...

[0x30A88]

Imagine they're free individuals -- mostly -- that has agreed to fight beside you. DA:O gave really too much power -- like having them march into battle in their underwear as a possibility.

[Actua]

Morrigan should 'never'--yet always was--in plate armor.

At least for me.

That's the real answer.

[CaptainBlackGold]

Pure baseless speculation; I suspect the reason for making the companion armors "unchangeable" probably has to do with budget and time as well as artistic vision.

They floated the concept in ME2 and though some of us complained, loudly, the majority said, "OK." Thus, they could make their unique models, without having to invest limited resources in making a variety of armors for them because they already had evidence that the player community would accept it.

And, I also suspect that whoever was in charge of the artistic redesign managed to convince the powers that be that THEIR artistic vision of how the companions looked would be essentially a non-issue with the majority of fans while making certain characters "stand out" for marketing purposes, especially since the Dev's have stated repeatedly that they wanted to give DA2 a unique look.

Add that with the fact that so many players did not complete the first game, or only played through it once it would not be unreasonable to conclude that the Design Team decided that having multiple armors for companions was just not worth it.

That's one of the reasons why I think these "whine" or "complaint" threads are so important. If we do not tell Bioware, nicely and politely that we do not like their design decisions, then they have no incentive to re-evaluate them for the next iteration of the game.

In short, the real fault lies with all the ME2 fans who just accepted the new inventory system - OK, just kidding here - kinda.

As I have stated before, if you like the unique look that Bioware chose, then, more power to you. But that design decision removed a lot of customization for the rest of us - something that many players see as being an important part of their game playing experience. I just hope there is enough of us to make Bioware reconsider this in the future.

Will I buy a DLC with alternate appearences? Depends on what the armors look like and what the modding community can do with the existing tools (and whether or not an updated toolset is offered). Personally, I have tons of hair, face, armor and weapon mods installed in DAO so I forget sometimes how ugly some of the armor/robes were in the original game. I bought one pack for ME2 but did not care for the second one so no sale.

I hope they DO offer an alternate appearence pack within a couple of weeks because right now, I do not care for any of the "stock" armors at all and I hate the thought of playing through the entire game with them. I don't see those alternate appearence packs as nickle and diming - just giving me choices.

[0x30A88]

JoshPloof wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Well, I think the OP is correct. Not that I disagree with the idea. The folks at Bioware have bills to pay, just like everybody else. It's well within their rights to use DLC to sell people different outfits for their characters.

(Note: I do not like the idea, but I don't think it's anything aside from a smart business decision)

If they sell a million copies of Dragon age, they make 60 million dollars. Not even including the exiled prince DLC. That's more than enough to pay any bills they may have.

You seem to ignore the fact that there's a considerable lot of costs involved in the process os making the game -- which remains one of the reassons they submit to publishers, the other being to get it marketed.

[Sengoku no Maou]

Does this mean all of our party member will receive some form of eye wear like the appearance packs for ME2? My gods, I hate those futuristic sunglasses.

[KenKenpachi]

-sigh- not this **** again. Do the same people who post about DLC also spend all the money they have at a store because signs say its for sale?

[Jenova65]

Gisle Aune wrote...

Imagine they're free individuals -- mostly -- that has agreed to fight beside you. DA:O gave really too much power -- like having them march into battle in their underwear as a possibility.

Mmmm............... Nekkid Zev..............  
NB - I have never done that, I would worry that they would get cold, lol.

Actually after playing the demo, I totally get why BioWare would take away the option for us to change the clothes. They have crafted some nice outfits there and want the characters to stand out and have personality rather than wearing generic armour you nicked off a dead foe. Imagine Isabela taken out of her clothes and shoved in a battledress or Wades armour. She suits the clothes she has on. And I can't imagine anyone wanting to trade Fenris clothes for something unflattering.
Just my opinion.

[CaptainBlackGold]

Sengoku no Maou wrote...

Does this mean all of our party member will receive some form of eye wear like the appearance packs for ME2? My gods, I hate those futuristic sunglasses.

This is what I am talking about when I say, "customization is important." You might like the outfit, but hate the sun-glasses - but you are stuck because you cannot change your companion's head-gear. Want to use some of the cool looking armor that you got as a bonus? Good luck trying to not look like an idiot because the helmuts do not come off during conversations not to mention what happens when poor Shepherd tries to drink through one. But that was an INTENTIONAL design decision according to one of the developers.

I don't want to see that same thing happen to DA2. Even if we get an alternate appearence pack, who knows what silly thing some artist decided would look "cool." Just think if they make an alternate appearence pack with some really awesome robes but stick on some silly mage hat like they had in DAO? We have been reassured that the hats are way cooler in DA2 - but someone responsible for making design decisions said, "OK" to those monstrosities and that is why though I love Bioware games and think the developers/writers/designers etc. are incredibly talented people, I do not want to give up control over anything more than absolutely necessary.

The more they allow us to customize the visual look of our characters, the more likely that we can all be at least satisfied with the look - or at least a look we can live with.

[RyuKaiser]

KenKenpachi wrote...

-sigh- not this **** again. Do the same people who post about DLC also spend all the money they have at a store because signs say its for sale?

Honestly? No. Most of us are mad because we lose something like customization of our team mates, then they sell it back to us. I'm noticing a lot of this actually. Cutting characters from the final game, customization options, extra pieces of the game. A lot of stuff cut from the game, then sold back to us, either to make us buy new (and monopolize the used games industry), or to get extra money from us at release.

The fear is the loss of customization. The only thing that really erks me is having no option to turn off helmets in the last game. Their armor otherwise was completely customizable, in essence, you got a team of characters that were created by the same system you designed your own character with. With the current looming system, however, it appears they stripped it out, and will probably charge us for additional looks. We're basically paying the same that we paid for DA:O, but getting much, much less.

[KenKenpachi]

RyuKaiser wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

-sigh- not this **** again. Do the same people who post about DLC also spend all the money they have at a store because signs say its for sale?

Honestly? No. Most of us are mad because we lose something like customization of our team mates, then they sell it back to us. I'm noticing a lot of this actually. Cutting characters from the final game, customization options, extra pieces of the game. A lot of stuff cut from the game, then sold back to us, either to make us buy new (and monopolize the used games industry), or to get extra money from us at release.

The fear is the loss of customization. The only thing that really erks me is having no option to turn off helmets in the last game. Their armor otherwise was completely customizable, in essence, you got a team of characters that were created by the same system you designed your own character with. With the current looming system, however, it appears they stripped it out, and will probably charge us for additional looks. We're basically paying the same that we paid for DA:O, but getting much, much less.

See now this is valid and makes perfect sense, how the topic started looked like another   DLC topic, in that case its very understandable I happen to run mods for a number of PC games for this reasson. Saddly its nothing new though I've seen plenty of games short of weapons that were the same **** all the time. Or the same with ME1, most of the armor was the exact same minus colors. But as I said the above is rational to worry about. But the DLC is optional, if your a PC player then give it two-three months and plenty of DLC will be out. I used to play alot of JRPG's and well nothing changes in most of those, same with alot of other games.

But I get what your saying its like CNC Generals I hated the cartoonish look of the infantry and run a few skin mods. And customization can be nice in a number of other games.

[Mashiki]

KenKenpachi wrote...

-sigh- not this **** again. Do the same people who post about DLC also spend all the money they have at a store because signs say its for sale?

Nah.  I hold onto my money so tightly that my family calls me a scrooge, and my GF states that I'm the cheapest bastard she's ever known.  Living on a shoe-string budget does that to you.  Also, when I walk into a store, I expect a product to be complete if that's what I'm buying.  I don't walk in n' buy a pizza, and it missing the cheese, and pepperoni.  But they'll charge you an extra $6.99 to add one.   Nor do I get away with charging someone $279.90 to fix their car, but then charge them an aditional $25 to put the battery back in, after I initially took it out.

[Daidoji Tangen]

JoshPloof wrote...

Daidoji Tangen wrote...

xnoxiousx wrote...

they want charge us more and more for dlc and different looks

like me2

That's great!

Seriously, I hate spending my time, "Oh. Another Leather Helm. Yay. Oh. I got Dwarven Armor of Kick-Ass. Sweet! Inventory full. @#$% What do I throw out? Let's spend the next five minutes comparing my armor so I can throw out the worst one." After ten minutes go by, "Hey, a long sword. Inventory full of course. What was the second worst piece of equipment I had? ...... #*$@(*)&$)@&$()@$@_((!!!!!! I forgot. Now, I have to spend another five minutes figuring out what my worse piece of equipment! #P($(#&%($@$@$@(*)$()@&(@$_@)#*!(@!_()$#*!!!!!!!! THAT LONG SWORD IS WORSE THAN ALL OF THEM!!!!!!!"

I honestly would rather spend time playing the game rather than figuring out if this new piece of armor is good or not. I know some people love micro-managing. But I don't.

As for looks, what's the complaint as long as they look cool? I mean it's better than everyone looking the same. I'd rather my people look distinct than being able to change into armor that looks like armor that everyone else is wearing.

I hadn't even thought of this. now, I am excited.

I never had the problem of having too much armor/weapons. Anything that was useless to me, I kept in their chests, or on the darkspawn. Why would you even pick up armor or weapons you didn't need? And secondly, you can easily sell anything not needed at the party camp. Simple as that.

But you don't know its useless unless you check. Of course, it's not useless if your inventory is not full so you can sell it. Sure, I sell, but then items start packing back up. It wouldn't be a problem if it was rarer and we only got special armor that all looks unique like some of the upper level warrior armors. But it's not. Most of it is bland and boring.

Of course, I am somewhat crippled because I am obsessive where I
have to take everything I see unless I know there is a reason not. It
honestly never occurs to me not to take stuff.

I don't buy the looks customization argument because most of the armor was boring.  Especially for rogues and mages. I remember unlocking Battledress of the Provocuteur. That sounds awesome! Some Orleisian fancy armor! SWEET! Let's go to my equipment and see what it lo... Oh. It looks like pretty much every other armor I have.

Honestly, other than the people who love to micro manage, it seems like this is pretty much a disguised *DLC complaint. Because God forbid you have to pay extra for extra stuff.

And it is extra. If ME came out for the orginal XBOX or PS2, we would not have gotten the costumes in the costume packs. Nor would we have gotten Kasumi, Zaheed, LotS, etc. Not all DLC is a ripoff designed to screw you out of every last dollar by not delivering you the complete game. Not every game is Fable 3.

*The following rant is not directed at the guy who I am responding to. Nothing he says in his response suggests either way if he is guilty of this.

[ransompendragon]

Daidoji Tangen wrote...

JoshPloof wrote...

Daidoji Tangen wrote...

xnoxiousx wrote...

they want charge us more and more for dlc and different looks

like me2

That's great!

Seriously, I hate spending my time, "Oh. Another Leather Helm. Yay. Oh. I got Dwarven Armor of Kick-Ass. Sweet! Inventory full. @#$% What do I throw out? Let's spend the next five minutes comparing my armor so I can throw out the worst one." After ten minutes go by, "Hey, a long sword. Inventory full of course. What was the second worst piece of equipment I had? ...... #*$@(*)&$)@&$()@$@_((!!!!!! I forgot. Now, I have to spend another five minutes figuring out what my worse piece of equipment! #P($(#&%($@$@$@(*)$()@&(@$_@)#*!(@!_()$#*!!!!!!!! THAT LONG SWORD IS WORSE THAN ALL OF THEM!!!!!!!"

I honestly would rather spend time playing the game rather than figuring out if this new piece of armor is good or not. I know some people love micro-managing. But I don't.

As for looks, what's the complaint as long as they look cool? I mean it's better than everyone looking the same. I'd rather my people look distinct than being able to change into armor that looks like armor that everyone else is wearing.

I hadn't even thought of this. now, I am excited.

I never had the problem of having too much armor/weapons. Anything that was useless to me, I kept in their chests, or on the darkspawn. Why would you even pick up armor or weapons you didn't need? And secondly, you can easily sell anything not needed at the party camp. Simple as that.

But you don't know its useless unless you check. Of course, it's not useless if your inventory is not full so you can sell it. Sure, I sell, but then items start packing back up. It wouldn't be a problem if it was rarer and we only got special armor that all looks unique like some of the upper level warrior armors. But it's not. Most of it is bland and boring.

Of course, I am somewhat crippled because I am obsessive where I
have to take everything I see unless I know there is a reason not. It
honestly never occurs to me not to take stuff.

I don't buy the looks customization argument because most of the armor was boring.  Especially for rogues and mages. I remember unlocking Battledress of the Provocuteur. That sounds awesome! Some Orleisian fancy armor! SWEET! Let's go to my equipment and see what it lo... Oh. It looks like pretty much every other armor I have.

Honestly, other than the people who love to micro manage, it seems like this is pretty much a disguised *DLC complaint. Because God forbid you have to pay extra for extra stuff.

And it is extra. If ME came out for the orginal XBOX or PS2, we would not have gotten the costumes in the costume packs. Nor would we have gotten Kasumi, Zaheed, LotS, etc. Not all DLC is a ripoff designed to screw you out of every last dollar by not delivering you the complete game. Not every game is Fable 3.

*The following rant is not directed at the guy who I am responding to. Nothing he says in his response suggests either way if he is guilty of this.

One of the hallmarks of RPGs is choice. Like those who call those of us who question DLC "whiners" who "don't have to buy it" -- you are right -- it is a choice. Limiting player choice through something as simple as armor/artificats (love those cats, artifacts, those damn facts) /weapons is taking away choice.

And you have the choice to obsess about which sword to dump or keep or to take one and move along. But when they take away the choice completely then that is going against what RPG is all about.

I still miss Morrowind where you had each component for a suit of armor and could mix and match -- plus you felt you accomplished something when you got that last glass pauldron!

[borelocin]

I bought the ME2 appearance packs - they looked cool.
Other people didn't they were worth a couple of bucks and didn't buy them.

If they do release appearance packs I'll buy the ones I like and won't buy the rest.

[Dharren]

I don't care for this trend (cutting ever more detail out of games and reselling it after the fact). Not to mention that it is way too tempting to place the product out well before all the DLC is completed. This fragments the game experience.

I used to wait until a game was out 6 months and buy it on discount. I haven't done that with DA because they appeared to be worth not waiting for. Looks like EA will make less on me in the future. I'll just wait until all the DLC and mods are out before I buy it.

I would rather play the game all at once.

I hope EA realizes that competition has been growing in this market segment. BioWare's successes have been because they have put out complete and very detailed products. Why would they, or our community, want to see that change?

Fortunately there are some fledgling game designers that are interested in moving into this space should BioWare/EA let it go.

[Nyuneko]

It's nice to want things, they can also want us to pay for their gold-gilded swimming pool of awesomeness, but that doesn't mean we have to pay.

Or may be, they just don't want us stripping temp members for quick money.