133 réponses à ce sujet

[Vhaius]

My guess is that they'll blow up a Mass Relay, all that raw energy should take the buggers out.

[Louisimo]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Wolverfrog wrote...

 The Shadows Reapers use Telepaths Biotics as their central processing unit. Other Telepaths Biotics will be able to interfere with the telepathic biotic field and paralyse the Reaper momentarily whilst Sheridan's Shepard's ships strike.

There's an easy solution. And completely original too, just like Babylon 5 The Citadel!

I take it that Babylon 5 is another of BW's games and it's practically the same thing.

Not quite. Look it up, its bioware using a sampling of popular sci-fi, combining it to make an universe so enthralling we're all online talking about it.

[88mphSlayer]

Sajuro wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

Pwener2313 wrote...

You get this if you keep the Collector Base.

Hmm the saying too big to fail comes to mind when I see this...

Also lets hope the Reapers have no farm boy pilots.

or at least put a metal chasis of some kind over the vent.

a piece of plywood would work as well 

[88mphSlayer]

Vhaius wrote...

My guess is that they'll blow up a Mass Relay, all that raw energy should take the buggers out.

why not just move the mass relay to the sun? they all pop out right into flames

barring that...

a black sheriff

[jamesp81]

The reaper on the IFF mission was killed by a ginormous defensive mass driver cannon. Sometimes, the best solutions are the simple ones. Weapons that use mass effect fields to drive projectiles are old hat tech and relatively inexpensive. All you need is one big enough.

Now, granted, a giant cannon in orbit of a planet strikes me as the sort of desperately jury-rigged, bastardized weapon that only ever gets used in really, really terrible wars. However, this war qualifies on that count. And if we're going to do this, why half ass it? Forget building a cannon in orbit around planets. Build it in orbit around a star, and configured it to draw power directly from the star itself. Build one in orbit around the star of every inhabited system. When a Reaper drops out of the mass relay, light his ass up.

Modifié par jamesp81, 07 mars 2011 - 06:37 .

[jxd73]

Telefrag?

[Prince of Kemet]

jamesp81 wrote...

The reaper on the IFF mission was killed by a ginormous defensive mass driver cannon. Sometimes, the best solutions are the simple ones. Weapons that use mass effect fields to drive projectiles are old hat tech and relatively inexpensive. All you need is one big enough.

Now, granted, a giant cannon in orbit of a planet strikes me as the sort of desperately jury-rigged, bastardized weapon that only ever gets used in really, really terrible wars. However, this war qualifies on that count. And if we're going to do this, why half ass it? Forget building a cannon in orbit around planets. Build it in orbit around a star, and configured it to draw power directly from the star itself. Build one in orbit around the star of every inhabited system. When a Reaper drops out of the mass relay, light his ass up.

The Star Forge from Knights of the old Republic come to mind. Although it was a space station, it still got its power from the sun.

[Aedan_Cousland]

A supernova could destroy the Reapers.

But you'd have to lure them into position first, *and* have the ability to cause a sun to go supernova. That tech would seem to be well beyond the Council species capabilities however, and would probably have to come from the Reapers themselves.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 07 mars 2011 - 07:24 .

[Pirate JeraldxD]

You have to give them a very advanced virus.... Of course by coughing on them

[jamesp81]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

A supernova could destroy the Reapers.

But you'd have to lure them into position first, *and* have the ability to cause a sun to go supernova. That tech would seem to be well beyond the Council species capabilities however, and would probably have to come from the Reapers themselves.

The Geth were apparently working on something at Haestrom that could, possibly, do just that.

[JRCHOharry]

jamesp81 wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

A supernova could destroy the Reapers.

But you'd have to lure them into position first, *and* have the ability to cause a sun to go supernova. That tech would seem to be well beyond the Council species capabilities however, and would probably have to come from the Reapers themselves.

The Geth were apparently working on something at Haestrom that could, possibly, do just that.

What are you referring to? If its Haestrom's sun Tali (I think) said that it was aging too slow to be used as a weapon.

[Durgon Ironfist]

I remind you the Turians, (and the Normandy SR-2 if you do your mining like a good space marine) are equipped with the same weapons sovereign had. This said now that we have their technology and we know more about them can it be said they are still the unstoppable menace they could have been?

[Smeelia]

sigma_draconis wrote...

The problem is that we already saw one Reaper giving trouble to the whole Citadel and Alliance fleet, so imagine 700+ reapers.

Actually we saw one Reaper and a large Geth fleet (who do most of the work, Sovereign doesn't fire once until the Alliance ships are attacking it in the confines of the Citadel) against a very small part of the Citadel fleet (who weren't at all prepared) and a portion of the Alliance Fleet (maybe a quarter or so and again they're not dedicating all of their firepower to the Reaper and don't arrive until the Citadel forces are essentially gone).  A couple of other interesting points about that battle are that the one Dreadnought there doesn't fire it's main gun and Sovereign barely takes any fire until the Alliance ships move into the Citadel where they have limited space (and then it's only a matter of time until Sovereign dies, although it does take out a few ships at this point).

We haven't really seen evidence that a Reaper is an insurmountable force, if anything they just seem like particularly well equipped Dreadnoughts.  Of course that's still something dangerous but the idea that they couldn't be killed in a conventional battle just isn't supported by what we've seen.  It is true that they're likely to have hundreds of ships and that is a bigger issue but the fleets of the galaxy aren't as small as some people seem to think either.  It's also quite possible that creative tactics could help to deal with the large Reaper force and give relatively small losses, the Reapers are used to fighting isolated forces after using the Citadel trap.

JRCHOharry wrote...

What are you referring to? If its Haestrom's sun Tali (I think) said that it was aging too slow to be used as a weapon.

It had aged by centuries in a relatively short time (not sure exactly how long, could still be a few years), you could probably increase the effect by adding more Dark Energy and if you had enough then you could make the star go nova in no time.  It's theoretically possible at least, there are definately some details that would need working out  (such as where you get the Dark Energy and how you deliver it) and we don't have all the specifics to be sure but at least if they use something like this there's already been foreshadowing.

[Sidney]

JRCHOharry wrote...
What are you referring to? If its Haestrom's sun Tali (I think) said that it was aging too slow to be used as a weapon.

Yes but that instability in Haestrom's sun had better come back into play and I'd think since they made such a big deal out of it they'd have to make some use of it in some way in ME3 - see Chekov's Gun.

[sigma_draconis]

Smeelia wrote...

sigma_draconis wrote...

The problem is that we already saw one Reaper giving trouble to the whole Citadel and Alliance fleet, so imagine 700+ reapers.

Actually we saw one Reaper and a large Geth fleet (who do most of the work, Sovereign doesn't fire once until the Alliance ships are attacking it in the confines of the Citadel) against a very small part of the Citadel fleet (who weren't at all prepared) and a portion of the Alliance Fleet (maybe a quarter or so and again they're not dedicating all of their firepower to the Reaper and don't arrive until the Citadel forces are essentially gone).  A couple of other interesting points about that battle are that the one Dreadnought there doesn't fire it's main gun and Sovereign barely takes any fire until the Alliance ships move into the Citadel where they have limited space (and then it's only a matter of time until Sovereign dies, although it does take out a few ships at this point).

We haven't really seen evidence that a Reaper is an insurmountable force, if anything they just seem like particularly well equipped Dreadnoughts.  Of course that's still something dangerous but the idea that they couldn't be killed in a conventional battle just isn't supported by what we've seen.  It is true that they're likely to have hundreds of ships and that is a bigger issue but the fleets of the galaxy aren't as small as some people seem to think either.  It's also quite possible that creative tactics could help to deal with the large Reaper force and give relatively small losses, the Reapers are used to fighting isolated forces after using the Citadel trap.

That's why I didn't say that Sovereign could've defeated both Alliance and Citadel forces alone, I just said that it gave them a lot of trouble being just one Reaper. Yes it only open fire after the Citadel arms opened, but when it did it destroyed Alliance/ Citadel ships at a faster rate than the Geth fleet did. Even when it was on its own during the battle, it showed no sign of being completely outmatched. Sure it would've fell eventually but both fleets had to slowly wear it down (along with Sovereign losing its shield when the Saren-husk was killed). If it was only as powerful as an upgraded Dreadnought, it would've been destroyed the instant both fleet focus fire on it.

The way I see it, the Geth fleet was half the power of the invasion force and Sovereign was the other. The Geth fleet going in without Sovereign would have the same result as Sovereign goin in alone. And while i agree that the Citadel fleet was caught by surprise, they were still supposed to be the best fleet the Council races (turians, salarians, asari) has to offer. It certainly would make sense since they are the defence force for the center of Galactic affairs.

Even if Sovereign was not as powerful as I perceived, we are still talking about a force of at least 700 Reapers strong. And like I said on my previous post, most of the races like the Rachni, Quarians and especially Krogans are too low in number in terms of population to be a big help. So that leaves the Geth, Alliance and Council races as the viable fighting forces. The smart tactics usually used in warfare to make up for brute force does not apply here either. I doubt espionage, assasination, sabotage works at all against a race of sentient battle fortresses.

[88mphSlayer]

no plausible way is what makes sequels fun

[CyanidPontifex]

Seeing that the Reapers will get here by Mass Effect 3, which presumably takes place only two years after ME2, I think that the Citadel Relay's purpose wasn't to speed their journey, but to make it easier. I would imagine that after two years of constant FTL travel, the Reapers would be "worn out," and possess far less power than they would if they entered via Relay.

[Khemical]

No way of defeating the Reapers? I have 2 words "Thannix. Cannon."

Boom goes the dynamite.

[Smeelia]

sigma_draconis wrote...

That's why I didn't say that Sovereign could've defeated both Alliance and Citadel forces alone, I just said that it gave them a lot of trouble being just one Reaper. Yes it only open fire after the Citadel arms opened, but when it did it destroyed Alliance/ Citadel ships at a faster rate than the Geth fleet did. Even when it was on its own during the battle, it showed no sign of being completely outmatched. Sure it would've fell eventually but both fleets had to slowly wear it down (along with Sovereign losing its shield when the Saren-husk was killed). If it was only as powerful as an upgraded Dreadnought, it would've been destroyed the instant both fleet focus fire on it.

The Destiny Ascension was the other Dreadnought in the battle and it holds up reasonably well under fire for some time (and it doesn't have the advantage of limited space for enemies to attack from), it probably takes a comparable amount of time and firepower to destroy (assuming you don't save it) as Sovereign.  The ships Sovereign destroys are mostly Frigates (possibly some Cruisers, although those seem to be mostly fighting the Geth) and they also seem to be destroyed quickly in fights with other ships of similar size (the ships destroyed at the start are mostly destroyed by Geth ships in a few shots each and the Geth are fairly quickly destroyed by the ambushing Fifth Fleet forces).

I'm not sure to what extent you can rely on the depiction of the battle in the game since it's played for drama (for example, the shield on Sovereign only dropping when you defeat the Saren husk thing is likely for dramatic reasons rather than directly related) but even so there's not much to suggest Reapers are anything like invulnerable to conventional warfare.  They're by no means weak but they seem quite capable of being realistically beaten.

sigma_draconis wrote...

Even if Sovereign was not as powerful as I perceived, we are still talking about a force of at least 700 Reapers strong. And like I said on my previous post, most of the races like the Rachni, Quarians and especially Krogans are too low in number in terms of population to be a big help. So that leaves the Geth, Alliance and Council races as the viable fighting forces. The smart tactics usually used in warfare to make up for brute force does not apply here either. I doubt espionage, assasination, sabotage works at all against a race of sentient battle fortresses.

The numbers of Reapers are definately a potential issue, we don't know exactly how many there are (they don't necessarily have one for every 50,000 years, we know at least some have died) but even a relatively conservative estimate would still give a powerful force.  Even so, tactics would certainly be viable for use against them.  They could be led into traps, such as having minefields and so on.  They could also be ambushed and attacked with hit and run tactics (a major barrage on their fleet from range and then running away could work, especially if they're staying close together).  Assassination/sabotage could work if crews could manage to board a Reaper and place explosives on weak points (or shoot them in the core), this wouldn't be easy but it seems possible.

It wouldn't be easy and obviously the actual number of ships they have and the tactics they use will be a factor but it's not impossible that the Reapers could be fought with what we have now (rather than relying on some new race or technology).

[outlaw1109]

Everyone knows the 'Creators' theory.

I don't think its necessarily going to be that Shep finds them (since the evidence refers to a crypt) but I think its plausible to say that Shepard finds a weapon or some sort of tech from these guys and uses it against the Reapers.  There is, without a doubt, a Chekhov's Gun....its just a matter of finding out what it is...

Modifié par outlaw1109, 07 mars 2011 - 06:41 .

[Whatever42]

1) Reapers are not all powerful. Sovereign surprised the Citadel fleet and was backed by a massive Geth armada.

2) Reapers attack through subterfuge for a reason - they use the Citadel to shut down relay use and cut off systems because they know that their enemies can cause them damage.

3) The protheans distrupted the Reaper plans, possibly for the first time. For the first time, the galaxy has access to Reaper technology and weaponry and has had time to plan and arm.

4) We will not win in a straight-up battle. There will be some infiltration, based on something we already know about, that will weaken the Reapers. For example, We now know much about how Reapers work. We've have sovereign, the dead reaper, and scans of the Collector base and baby reaper. We understand much of how indoctrination works. If Indoctrination is a key mechanic to how a Reaper functions and we can distrupt that then Reapers may become vulnerable.

I can think of more than one scenario about how this all comes together quite logically. I have faith Bioware will get it right.

[Gentleman Moogle]

Oh sweet bippy, finally someone else who realizes that Sovereign had help taking down the Citadel!

We must have lunch, you and I.

Also, we do have the exact count of how many vessels were lost in the combined Geth/Sovereign attack: 20 Turian ships, 9 Human ships (Switching around the 9 human for the Destiny Ascension if you let the council burn). Most of the turian ships (Perhaps all of them) were taken out by the Geth, while the human ships were taken out by a combination of Geth and Sovereign.

Bottom line; Sovereign wasn't nearly the indestructible force of nature most folks seem to think it was.

Also, I've always seen the Saren/Reaper thing differently; I always thought that Sovereign hopped into Saren because his main Reaper unit was under heavy attack and would be destroyed soon, rather than the shields coming down because Shepard incinerated the Sovereign/Saren combination. Could be wrong, of course.

[ZeroDotZero]

Gentleman Moogle wrote...
Also, I've always seen the Saren/Reaper thing differently; I always thought that Sovereign hopped into Saren because his main Reaper unit was under heavy attack and would be destroyed soon, rather than the shields coming down because Shepard incinerated the Sovereign/Saren combination. Could be wrong, of course.

It was because Sovereign needed the Citadel to be controlled from the inside as well as from the tower. This is known. Any other reasons have not yet come to light.

I think Morinth will play a role in taking down the reapers. Possibly the vegetation from Jacob's mission too. It would make sense for all the loyalty missions to play a role in ME3, providing that you made the right choices.

[Avalon Aurora]

Given the different shapes of Reapers and the nature of them as the human Reaper seems to reveal, it is quite possible that each individual Reaper has a slightly different tech base, although most of them were likely guided along the path set out by the Reapers in building the Mass Relays and citadel, some Reapers might have noticeably different specialties, and some might have special tricks that weren't possessed by the Reapers seen thus far.

[jamesp81]

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

Oh sweet bippy, finally someone else who realizes that Sovereign had help taking down the Citadel!

We must have lunch, you and I.

Also, we do have the exact count of how many vessels were lost in the combined Geth/Sovereign attack: 20 Turian ships, 9 Human ships (Switching around the 9 human for the Destiny Ascension if you let the council burn). Most of the turian ships (Perhaps all of them) were taken out by the Geth, while the human ships were taken out by a combination of Geth and Sovereign.

Bottom line; Sovereign wasn't nearly the indestructible force of nature most folks seem to think it was.

Also, I've always seen the Saren/Reaper thing differently; I always thought that Sovereign hopped into Saren because his main Reaper unit was under heavy attack and would be destroyed soon, rather than the shields coming down because Shepard incinerated the Sovereign/Saren combination. Could be wrong, of course.

I thought it was 8 human ships?  Also, at least one Turian warship was destroyed by Sovereign in passing, but most of the destruction of the Citadel fleet was, indeed, accomplished by Sovereign.

Reapers are tough, but they are not gods.