556 réponses à ce sujet

[Arkalezth]

Dorateen wrote...

Shaun the Crazy One wrote...

  If an areas designer feels they really need to allow resting at a certain point in their dungeon they should create a campfire placeable the PC can interact with that give the option to rest. 

Yes, this is what I am doing.

I liked the resting system in Edinmoor. The campfires where placed exactly when they were needed.

There's also the option to carry supplies and use them for resting. Maybe not the best option for this module, but it's worth mentioning (if it hasn't been mentioned already, I haven't read everything).

[kamal_]

White Plume Mountain simply gave a popup saying it was safe to rest in a spot. To me that is a superior solution.

If the players are in exotic locations, there needs to be an alternative resting placeable. I don't expect to find campfires if I go to the Plane of Water for example.

[The Fred]

That sounds good to me. There's no reason you couldn't use a placeable of your choice though. Hell, you could even use some sort of healing spring which rejuvenates your party without resting at all, it wouldn't really matter. In fact, that way, you could have it recharge only after a certain amount of time. Just so long as, where the player needs to be able to rest, they can, then I think it's fine.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Do we really need to have such a discussion? I think we are all bright enough to use alternatives to a campfire without a symposium on alternatives. The issue is CW needs to make a decision. And in this case no decision is best, because at the module aka dungeon level you can rest when the author says you can because thats most likely to suit the challenge and environment they have created.

For me that is at key checkpoints. And like I said, I can figure out how to put something other than campfire in.

Modifié par Eguintir Eligard, 09 mars 2011 - 07:54 .

[The Fred]

OK so no resting, except where specified by individual builders? That sounds fine to me.

[Shaun the Crazy One]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

Do we really need to have such a discussion? I think we are all bright enough to use alternatives to a campfire without a symposium on alternatives. The issue is CW needs to make a decision. And in this case no decision is best, because at the module aka dungeon level you can rest when the author says you can because thats most likely to suit the challenge and environment they have created.

For me that is at key checkpoints. And like I said, I can figure out how to put something other than campfire in.

The reason I suggested having a single placeable across all areas was so that it whould be standardized.  The player sees a campfire and imediately identifies it as a place to rest.  Using a different placeable may fit your custom area, but keep in ind there are benifits to these standards.  As a designer these are desisions you'll have to make, but please don't make it a bedroll just for the sake of being different.

[nicethugbert]

Why is everybody ignoring the ranger in the room, and the druid, and the barbarian?

[Quixal]

I like the idea of creative alternatives to the bedroll. Standardization has its benefits but I don't think it is asking too much of a player to figure out where to rest based on items unless they are totally counterintuitive. A trigger could explain the first instance of an odd bedroll alternative if one is really worried though.

nicethugbert wrote...
Why is everybody ignoring the ranger in the room, and the druid, and the barbarian?

I don't know. Do they all have rings of invisibility?

[The Fred]

I would suggest using a standardised campfire (incidentally, is this a standard resource which was added with an expansion, or just a suggestion?) and/or "healing spring"-type placeable (could thus be made limited use, where a campfire would be unlimited), except where it would be inappropriate to use such an item, which I feel should be left to the builder's discretion. As EE says, we're all sensible enough to work this out on our own. A standard would make sense, though (especially for things like conversations etc).

nicethugbert wrote...
Why is everybody ignoring the ranger in the room, and the druid, and the barbarian?

There is no ranger. The ranger is a lie.

[Kaldor Silverwand]

Something about this "safe to rest" placeable idea bugs me. Seems too similar to non-D&D computer games and their notion of levels. Might be familiar and intuitive to some, but it seems a little scripted for me. Move here. Rest here. Move here. Rest here.

Why should anyplace in the wild be safe to rest? I think there should be civilized places you cannot rest (like in the middle of a town street), civilized places you can rest safely (like an inn), and every place else there should be risk involved. I would prefer this to resting stations.

Regards

[Shaun the Crazy One]

Fred and Kaldor you both make very good points.

I like the idea of a "healing spring" that could instantly heal your party as if they had just rested, would definitely have to be limited use though, and probably more rare as well (I wouldn't imagine magical healing springs to be very common), but an alternative to a campfire in an area where time is a major factor.

Overall I would recommend not having any such placeable if it can be avoided. There are tricks you can use to make it so the PCs don't need to rest, such as the crystal cave in SoZ where you had the option of being taken to the boss, which let you do the boss fight first and then fight your way out, no resting required. I'd encourage our designers to do things like that if they can.

Another question is do we want to add stones of alarm like in SoZ?

The Fred wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...
Why is everybody ignoring the ranger in the room, and the druid, and the barbarian?

There is no ranger. The ranger is a lie.

No it was me, I was the ranger, but I ditched when things turned ugly.

Modifié par Shaun the Crazy One, 15 mars 2011 - 01:36 .

[Eguintir Eligard]

Wow I guess we did have to have this discussion. I hope we spend at least half as much time synching up our magic loot and level distribution as we do this completely silly and self explanatory topic.





Well, at least 1/4 as much time.

Modifié par Eguintir Eligard, 15 mars 2011 - 02:18 .

[The Fred]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...
I hope we spend at least half as much time synching up our magic loot and level distribution as we do this completely silly and self explanatory topic.

Silly and self-explanatory how? If one dungeon allows resting, but another doesn't, and yet others allow resting only at campfires - and these have different campire conversations - the whole thing looks like an uncoordinated shambles. Players need to know when they can rest, and we need to know to build it that way. The only thing I would say is that maybe, given the risk of hi-jacking this thread, this discussion should be taken over to the project boards on the Citadel.

Kaldor, ideally we'd have wandering monsters and all that, but I think there's merit in keeping everything simple. The very reason I suggested a limited-use healing spring-type placeable is because it keeps things tactical - yes, you can "rest", but only once, and no running back to this safe location. In fact, I think the place I got the idea was something I read on 4th Ed PnP D&D. As Shaun says, though, they're very much a gameplay device, and not all that realistic (though in dungeons, a lot of features and encounters aren't that realistic).

[M. Rieder]

If sufficient healing items and a means for spell replenishment are provided, then it would be fine to only allow rests at civilized areas and possibly forego the campfire mechanism entirely. I think this definitely adds another level of tactics and strategy to the game.

I am assuming that most of the quests in the campaign will contain at least one civilized area, right. So in dungeons where resting is unrealistic, the developer could put in sufficient items to sustain the PC through the quest.

[Hellfire_RWS]

Keep it simple, Use SOZ stock rest system and be done with it.

[M. Rieder]

It's been awhile since I played SOZ. Does that allow for resting with the possibility of encounter? If so, I agree. I seem to recall finding the SOZ system pretty realistic.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Like I said fred, I hope we spend HALF as much time synching up everything else. This topic has been rehashed twice now. They are your dungeons, and it's been said do as you wish. That's as self explanatory as it can get.


Nobody seems to care to discuss if people are placing +5 swords in level 6 dungeons or whos putting 3 magic items in a 2 hours dungeon vs someone placing 20. What do rest standards even mean if we havent even established a flow of items and level progression. The player may not need to rest at all, or no amount of resting may save them.

Modifié par Eguintir Eligard, 15 mars 2011 - 06:14 .

[MokahTGS]

Yeah, we should make this module so hard that resting is meaningless. If a player survives this module it should be celebrated on high and printed in gaming magazines.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Corpses rest without interruption

[nicethugbert]

A rest system that does not take into account class is Teh Suck.

[nicethugbert]

MokahTGS wrote...

Yeah, we should make this module so hard that resting is meaningless. If a player survives this module it should be celebrated on high and printed in gaming magazines.

It should be a right of passage.  Only people who beat the module can vote or eat ice cream.  But not both!

[Shaughn78]

M. Rieder wrote...

It's been awhile since I played SOZ. Does that allow for resting with the possibility of encounter? If so, I agree. I seem to recall finding the SOZ system pretty realistic.

It can very easily be done. We have the k_mod scripts in the campaign which need to be assigned to the individual modules. Then it is just a matter of adding variables to the individual area. Import the following variable set "a_restsys_wm_vars".

The default restsys_wm_tables.2da is a little slim in the critter selection, but the builders could create their own lines with a our own reserved list.

If this is done, the topic of wander monsters should be moved to the other board so they 2da lines can be reserved and specified so we all know what each other is doing. No sense in have three different goblin encounters unless there will be module unique blueprints.

Resting in general: SOZ has a decent system and it is familiar to the players.  Wandering monsters can be added and some areas can be set to no resting, based on how mean and nasty the builder feels that particular day.  The wandering monster system can be turned on and off with a single variable on an area to allow for safe resting spots, or if you beat a boss battle it could clear the wandering monsters or even change the monster you will encounter.

Modifié par Shaughn78, 15 mars 2011 - 08:53 .

[dunniteowl]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

Corpses rest without interruption

Unless there's a necromancer about.  Then, well, it's an interruption to be sure.

I have to agree with Eguintir, though, folks.  If you hit the R key and it says, "You cannot rest here"  or it says, "You cannot rest with enemies nearby" doesn't that really cover it?  The proof will be in the pudding of playtesting I should think.

dno

[Shaun the Crazy One]

Hellfire_RWS wrote...

Keep it simple, Use SOZ stock rest system and be done with it.

That involved stones of alarm, something I personaly don't like.  In fact in that way you could rest pretty much anywhere.