427 réponses à ce sujet

[dekarserverbot]

You know, the Warden would probably be just as much a victim of this crazy combat design. I mean, what human-level enemy has the Warden ever faced that was so immune to being attacked head-on?

Flemmeth...

[BronzTrooper]

Flemmeth...

 

Not sure if she'd count, considering how she shapeshifts into a dragon.

[Pateu]

what human-level enemy has the Warden ever faced that was so immune to being attacked head-on?

 

Cauthrien because she has a wall of archers.

[KaiserShep]

Cauthrien because she has a wall of archers.

 

Cauthrien herself is not immune to a head-on assault, even with her wing of archers, and then you can use plenty of powers to subdue the wing of archers if you're a mage or have mages in your group. Besides, at least the excuse for her is that you're facing a lot more enemies. The Arishok, on the other hand, is damn near impossible to do this to without getting that sword impaling move and that nigh impossible to dodge dual sweep, and then he chugs health poultices too. He was vastly overpowered all by himself.

[Skymaple]

In my case, my Hawke would win... He is way more powerful, more experienced (and faster! haha) he's been through a lot more, and I grew to love him too much, is one of my favorite characters in the DA Universe... (I know, I know... most of you don't like him, but... )

I still like my Warden, but... can't compare. I think it maybe has to do with the fact that Hawke was a voiced character, with a more marked personality, so it was easier for me to be touched by his personal story... (the fact that he was hotter has nothing to do, I swear!)

[Nicholas Nunes]

Depends the class

 

Warrior vs Warrior (Grey warden)

 

Mage vs Mage (Hawke)

 

Rouge vs Rouge (Grey warden)

 

So in my opinion the Grey warden would win but that's only my opinion

[Pateu]

Mage vs Mage (Hawke)

 

lolno.

 

Mana Clash = bye Hawke.

[Skymaple]

lolno.

 

Mana Clash = bye Hawke.

 

Unless Blood Mage Hawke?

 

Rogue vs Rogue, I can't find a scenario where Warden wins...

[WildOrchid]

Hawke.

[MisterJB]

The Grey Warden is capable of killing creatures like Flemeth, the Forbidden One Gaxkang and the Old God Urthemiel, all horrors of an ancient world, in single combat.

 

Honestly, it's a curbstomp.

[MisterJB]

You know, the Warden would probably be just as much a victim of this crazy combat design. I mean, what human-level enemy has the Warden ever faced that was so immune to being attacked head-on?

The Arishok is not immune to being attacked head on.

My Warrior Hawke can do it. I invested on constitution so it's hard to interrupt his combos and stamina as well as second breath so he can spam special moves. Then I equipped him with a weapon that beats enemies back and breaks their combos; this, alongside with this like Pommel Strike and Holy Smite, which stun; means that barring the ocasional sword through the gut and headbutting, Warrior Hawke can take the Arishok head on and win.

[KaiserShep]

The Grey Warden is capable of killing creatures like Flemeth, the Forbidden One Gaxkang and the Old God Urthemiel, all horrors of an ancient world, in single combat.

 

Honestly, it's a curbstomp.

 

Flemeth just turns into a high dragon, which Hawke can and does also kill.  The Warden's special ability to kill the Old God Urthemiel doesn't really give the character an edge against a human opponent. As for horrors of an ancient world, Dragon Age 2 has plenty of those as well. I mean, Hawke battles an ancient rock wraith, and mows through plenty of abominations, multiple varterrals, pride demons and arcane horrors. And, of course, Hawke kills a number of darkspawn from regular hurlocks to ogres and emissaries as well, which have even worse powers than the ones the Warden encountered. Heck, Kirkwall is pretty much sitting on the hellmouth.

 

I wouldn't discount Corypheus either. We don't know for certain what will become of it, but we know that Hawke can fight and defeat the form we saw. If it turns out that its soul survived, then it's no different from the Warden defeating Flemeth, though we know what became of the latter regardless of the Warden's efforts.

 

 

I don't really see much reason why it would be so one-sided for either, since both pretty much mow through some of the worst that Thedas has to offer.

[Pateu]

Unless Blood Mage Hawke?

 

Rogue vs Rogue, I can't find a scenario where Warden wins...

 

Those are just game mechanics. The Warden's list of killed enemies is way more impressive. He wins easily.

 

Hawke became champion for killing the Arishok.

 

The Warden beat Sten ( next Arishok ) and no one in Thedas even knows that, because The Warden faced way stronger enemies.

Flemeth just turns into a high dragon, which Hawke can and does also kill.

 

Don't compare Flemeth to a High Dragon.

 

Flemeth eluded death. The High Dragon the Warden killed is now tier 7 boots.

[KaiserShep]

Don't compare Flemeth to a High Dragon.

 

Flemeth eluded death. The High Dragon the Warden killed is now tier 7 boots.

 

It doesn't matter, because that's what the Warden fights anyway. That Flemeth has an escape route is neither here or there. It's always possible that Flemeth just likes to put on a good show and is laughing the entire time while the Warden was suckered into fighting her in the first place.

[Skymaple]

Those are just game mechanics. The Warden's list of killed enemies is way more impressive. He wins easily.

 

Hawke became champion for killing the Arishok.

 

The Warden beat Sten ( next Arishok ) and no one in Thedas even knows that, because The Warden faced way stronger enemies.

 

 

 

Don't compare Flemeth to a High Dragon.

 

Flemeth eluded death. The High Dragon the Warden killed is now tier 7 boots.

 

I believe Hawke would have done better if in the role of the Warden, mind you The list of Warden's killed enemies is larger because of the story and setting, not because of the character... For me, Hawke is more clever and more... human (not in the race sense, but you know, talking about personality, feelings) -> but that has nothing to do with a vs. battle, so don't mind me! haha (actually, we're talking here about our own Wardens, Hawkes... so I see how it could be different for everyone)

 

Besides, I think Flemeth never wanted the Warden dead, for he had to stop the blight... so... she did not fight with all she had

[MisterJB]

Flemeth just turns into a high dragon, which Hawke can and does also kill.

 

Unlike regular High Dragons, Flemeth is intelligent which means she can formulate plans during combat making her far more dangerous than the one Hawke killed.

Besides, the Warden killed five High Dragons; one was a centuries old shape-shifter, another was a god and another was a ghost.

 

The Warden's special ability to kill the Old God Urthemiel doesn't really give the character an edge against a human opponent.

Since Urthemiel is a god that was once worshipped by the culture that ruled a whole continent, I'm assuming his powers are far above that of High Dragons.

 

As for horrors of an ancient world, Dragon Age 2 has plenty of those as well. I mean, Hawke battles an ancient rock wraith, and mows through plenty of abominations, multiple varterrals, pride demons and arcane horrors.

None of those are comparable to a Forbidden One; one of the four most powerful demons in existence.

Of course, Hawke killed one as well. But the Warden also killed Varterrals and Pride Demons. Anything but Rock Wraiths, really.

 

 

And, of course, Hawke kills a number of darkspawn from regular hurlocks to ogres and emissaries as well, which have even worse powers than the ones the Warden encountered.

What? By Lore, the real hard hitter Darkspawn don't appear on the surface unless there's a Blight.

The Warden kills many especially powerful Darkspawn like the Forge Master, the Dragon-Tamer, Necromancer, Conjurer, Master Assassin, Omega, the Mother, Ogre Commanders, even Awakened Darkspawn.

Hawke hasn't even killed one Broodmother. The Darkspawn s/he encounters are nothing compared to those the Warden does.

 

 

I wouldn't discount Corypheus either. We don't know for certain what will become of it, but we know that Hawke can fight and defeat the form we saw. If it turns out that its soul survived, then it's no different from the Warden defeating Flemeth, though we know what became of the latter regardless of the Warden's efforts.

True but the Warden killed the Architect and then proceeded to off the Mother.

[KaiserShep]

Unlike regular High Dragons, Flemeth is intelligent which means she can formulate plans during combat making her far more dangerous than the one Hawke killed.

Besides, the Warden killed five High Dragons; one was a centuries old shape-shifter, another was a god and another was a ghost.

 

Her capacity to formulate plans doesn't really seem to matter, so we can only assume that this is a matter of gameplay/story segregation, but then I can just as well assume that Flemeth and Morrigan were playing with the Warden together the entire time, which, considering how Flemeth seems to behave, is entirely possible too.

 

Since Urthemiel is a god that was once worshipped by the culture that ruled a whole continent, I'm assuming his powers are far above that of High Dragons.

 

We can assume that it does, but as far as we can tell, the archdemon's only powers that make it exceed that of the high dragon are its ability to cheat death through the darkspawn and its ability to command the horde. There's the spirit-damaging fire, but that's not really any worse than regular fire.

 

 

What? By Lore, the real hard hitter Darkspawn don't appear on the surface unless there's a Blight.

 

It was my understanding that the darkspawn will appear on the surface from time to time, just not in the numbers that an archdemon would amass. In any case, Hawke fights quite a few underground anyway on multiple expeditions.

 

Anyway, my point is that both the Warden and Hawke fight a lineup of enemies that would most likely have cut the journey of anyone else in Thedas particularly short. All this technicality mumbo jumbo about old gods or shapeshifters doesn't really matter. Both of these characters are pretty much murder factories, and determining which one could come out on top isn't really cut and dried.

[dekarserverbot]

The Arishok is not immune to being attacked head on.
My Warrior Hawke can do it. I invested on constitution so it's hard to interrupt his combos and stamina as well as second breath so he can spam special moves. Then I equipped him with a weapon that beats enemies back and breaks their combos; this, alongside with this like Pommel Strike and Holy Smite, which stun; means that barring the ocasional sword through the gut and headbutting, Warrior Hawke can take the Arishok head on and win.

My Hawke also did, and it was a two handed warrior (i can't remember it's gender, he was just so useless that i didn't care about that), I just required a few polutices and was still in nightmare difficulty (not going casual yet... even if combat was ubber boring). And saying that Flemeth doesn't count because she shapeshifts into a high dragon makes absolutely no sense

[KaiserShep]

And saying that Flemeth doesn't count because she shapeshifts into a high dragon makes absolutely no sense

 

Except Flemeth is hardly a "human level" enemy. We're even led to believe that she's not truly human anymore either. In any case, being able to transform into a high dragon during combat disqualifies an enemy from being "human level". If we were just fighting a mage with powerful attacks, then fine, but a dragon? No.

[dekarserverbot]

Except Flemeth is hardly a "human level" enemy. We're even led to believe that she's not truly human anymore either. In any case, being able to transform into a high dragon during combat disqualifies an enemy from being "human level". If we were just fighting a mage with powerful attacks, then fine, but a dragon? No.

then neither is Arishok because he was a qunari

[Undead Han]

Hawke's list of accomplishments pales in comparison to the Warden's.

 

If that Maric quote about a person's quality being determined by the quality of their enemies is correct, it is the Warden in a first round knockout. The Warden faced more dangerous foes overall.

[Pateu]

Hawke's list of accomplishments pales in comparison to the Warden's.

 

If that Maric quote about a person's quality being determined by the quality of their enemies is correct, it is the Warden in a first round knockout. The Warden faced more dangerous foes overall.

 

Plus, Loghain was so scared of him he had to send the crows and make the Warden an outlaw.

[KaiserShep]

Hawke's list of accomplishments pales in comparison to the Warden's.

 

If that Maric quote about a person's quality being determined by the quality of their enemies is correct, it is the Warden in a first round knockout. The Warden faced more dangerous foes overall.

 

It will be interesting to see similar threads like this arguing between whether Shepard can beat whatever new protagonist BioWare creates for the next ME game.

 

Plus, Loghain was so scared of him he had to send the crows and make the Warden an outlaw.

 

Actually, it was Howe that hired the Warden on behalf of Loghain; he simply gave the go ahead, and he certainly didn't do so out of fear of the character, since at that point, the character was not even a person of note beyond simply being a Grey Warden. He didn't just make the Warden an outlaw; he made all Wardens outlaws.

[Undead Han]

It will be interesting to see similar threads like this arguing between whether Shepard can beat whatever new protagonist BioWare creates for the next ME game.

 

 

 

Also Normandy vs. the New Ship

[Milan92]

I'm going to say this; the warden would beat hawke in combat.... but hawke would beat the warden in a verbal debate!

 

Especially if it involves jokes.