I'm going to say this; the warden would beat hawke in combat.... but hawke would beat the warden in a verbal debate!
Especially if it involves jokes.
If we go by simple character concepts, I'd say the Warden. Hawke is a skilled warrior(/mage/rogue), but ultimately they're more a regular fellow than the elite Warden who almost single-handily beat the Blight.
On the other hand, Hawke not only beats back a Qunari attack but also similarly takes on a bloody high dragon, so as far as refugees or Champions go, they're probably pretty above average. They do probably beat more blood mages and random gangs. I mean, I don't know if DA2 was supposed to be like so, but Hawke was less of a refugee or adventurer and more a mass-murdering giant-spider-endangering death machine. The Warden was too, but the Warden usually had more of a focused goal, so you'd expect them to be fighting.
Hawke goes for a walk and ends up slaughtering dozens.
If we go by simple character concepts, I'd say the Warden. Hawke is a skilled warrior(/mage/rogue), but ultimately they're more a regular fellow than the elite Warden who almost single-handily beat the Blight.
On the other hand, Hawke not only beats back a Qunari attack but also similarly takes on a bloody high dragon, so as far as refugees or Champions go, they're probably pretty above average. They do probably beat more blood mages and random gangs. I mean, I don't know if DA2 was supposed to be like so, but Hawke was less of a refugee or adventurer and more a mass-murdering giant-spider-endangering death machine. The Warden was too, but the Warden usually had more of a focused goal, so you'd expect them to be fighting.
Hawke goes for a walk and ends up slaughtering dozens.
Nice joke
But it's true though. Hawke can walk out of the Hanged Man, and it's suddenly a mabari and bandit horde, or walk out of his/her estate, only to find that the streets are swarming with bandits impersonating guards, an all-women gang filled with rogues, or thralls of blood mages. My Hawke made her share of sovereigns from the Friends wiping them all out.
he is grey warden so warden
But when it comes to mage comparison absolutely Hawke .
he is grey warden so warden
But when it comes to mage comparison absolutely Hawke .
The Warden's had the fastest Harrowing since like forever.
Hawke's an apostate.
What does Hawke have to put him anywhere near the Warden?
he is grey warden so warden
But when it comes to mage comparison absolutely Hawke .
2 words: Mana Clash 
The Warden's had the fastest Harrowing since like forever.
Hawke's an apostate.
What does Hawke have to put him anywhere near the Warden?
Being an apostate in and of itself is meaningless, especially in Hawke's case, since he/she and Bethany were trained by Malcolm Hawke, who was a very powerful mage. It's also worth noting that mage Hawke would actually be family to the mage Warden.
Being an apostate in and of itself is meaningless, especially in Hawke's case, since he/she and Bethany were trained by Malcolm Hawke, who was a very powerful mage. It's also worth noting that mage Hawke would actually be family to the mage Warden.
Didn't Malcolm die when Hawke was fairly young, though?
And no, being an apostate isn't meaningless.
It means you're home schooled whereas a Circle Mage had access to giant libraries and the best mages/training in the kingdom.
While Hawke was home-schooled, that's not what apostate means, which is why I said "in and of itself". Being an apostate is meaningless insofar that it's not indicative of the mage's discipline in his/her mastery of magic. The most meaningful thing about it is the threat it poses to the mage from the Templars.
In any case, Malcolm Hawke died only 3 years before the Fifth Blight, so his mage children were plenty old enough by then. If Bethany lives through the prologue and goes to the Circle, she too shows a great deal of strength, attributed to her father's training (which is apparent if you play Legacy).
I am aware of what Malcolm did.
It still doesn't mean Hawke gained his power. Talent isn't genetic and even if it was, he wouldn't be guaranteed to have it.
The only feats you can give Mage Hawke is what Hawke does: killing the Arishok, the High Dragon, Orsino.
And if you do that, you give Mage Warden what the Warden does: killing the High Dragon, Broodmother, Archdemon, Flemeth, Architect.
And the Warden clearly wins.
Hawke simply has no feats to put him ahead of the Warden. The Warden can learn the arts of the Arcane Warriors of old ( and we all see how OP that is ). He has access to magic that dates since the beginnings of the world. Hawke is a child compared to that.
The warden smashes the archdeacon and ends a blight
hawke?…………….. can't remember anything epic about da2 so...
Warden, the warden would kick hawkes arse
I am aware of what Malcolm did.
It still doesn't mean Hawke gained his power. Talent isn't genetic and even if it was, he wouldn't be guaranteed to have it.
I never said anything about inheriting Malcolm's talent genetically. I merely said that the Hawke children were trained. Bethany's training was apparent if she joined the Circle, as she rose through the ranks rather quickly to become a teacher of apprentices.
The only feats you can give Mage Hawke is what Hawke does: killing the Arishok, the High Dragon, Orsino.
And if you do that, you give Mage Warden what the Warden does: killing the High Dragon, Broodmother, Archdemon, Flemeth, Architect.
And the Warden clearly wins.
You forgot the ancient rock wraith in the Deep Roads the slew of demons of just about every type, Corypheus and Meredith.
Hawke simply has no feats to put him ahead of the Warden. The Warden can learn the arts of the Arcane Warriors of old ( and we all see how OP that is ). He has access to magic that dates since the beginnings of the world. Hawke is a child compared to that.
I'll grant that, since the game pretty much restricts the classes to very specific weapons types and doesn't allow for "hybrid" classes. Here's to hoping DA:I sees the return of my beloved Spellweaver.
But it's true though. Hawke can walk out of the Hanged Man, and it's suddenly a mabari and bandit horde, or walk out of his/her estate, only to find that the streets are swarming with bandits impersonating guards, an all-women gang filled with rogues, or thralls of blood mages. My Hawke made her share of sovereigns from the Friends wiping them all out.
You could say that about most of the enemies in both games. Anything short of an elite-level boss is pretty much a quick XP booster for us to destroy. I mean, all those darkspawn in the Deep Roads in DA:O are just speed bumps that get in the way of our journey to the end of the tunnel.
But anyway, it all counts. That the game mechanic turns them into cheap cannon fodder doesn't change the fact that they are armed bandits that are attacking in large numbers against either a single or four combatants. In reality, no regular person would survive an assault from dozens of people who are shooting arrows and coming at you with swords and daggers in close quarters.
2 words: Mana Clash
By that logic Rogue Hawke can instantly do like 10000 damage with an ability and thus kills any Warden.
Can't use game mechanics in a discussion like this
By that logic Rogue Hawke can instantly do like 10000 damage with an ability and thus kills any Warden.
Can't use game mechanics in a discussion like this
I wasn't using game mechanics. Mana Clash is a spell just like Stone Fist or Mind Blast.
Plus, I wasn't saying that Mana Clash would kill Hawke outright. Remember: Mana Clash completely drains the targeted mage of mana and deals the difference in spirit damage. Hawke could survive the Warden's Mana Clash, but then they'd be vulnerable unless Hawke is a Blood Mage.
Also, if spells and talents are considered to be part of the game mechanics, then how would Hawke and the Warden fight? Specifically, how would mage Hawke and mage Warden fight? Would they swing their staves at each other?
As for your rogue Hawke comment, if we aren't going by game mechanics, why measure damage to Hawke and the Warden in damage points? ... don't answer that.
Really, this depends on the Warden's build vs. Hawke's build. Don't know why people are including the combat mechanics as a factor, tbh. imo, the Warden has more potential for completely OP builds than Hawke. The 2 most OP Hawkes (in my experience) were Blood Mage and archer rogue. In DA:O. there's Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage, nuker mage, 2-hander tank warrior, dual-wield warrior, and plenty of others. Actually, the most OP Warden I've played was a 2-hander tank warrior. Golems or Amgarrak was incredibly easy with that build.
I wasn't using game mechanics. Mana Clash is a spell just like Stone Fist or Mind Blast.
That is a game mechanic. Just like how Crushing Prison is different in DA:O versus DA:2. Individual abilities are completely arbitrary.
Or, if you prefer, if Mana Clash is canon, then it's only absent from DA:2 due to balance problems but Hawke could cast it. If it's not canon then it's a game mechanic and thus irrelevant. Pick your poison.
As for your rogue Hawke comment, if we aren't going by game mechanics, why measure damage to Hawke and the Warden in damage points? ... don't answer that.
Because I was illustrating the absurdity of trying to reference gameplay mechanics between different games like that.
That is a game mechanic. Just like how Crushing Prison is different in DA:O versus DA:2. Individual abilities are completely arbitrary.
Or, if you prefer, if Mana Clash is canon, then it's only absent from DA:2 due to balance problems but Hawke could cast it. If it's not canon then it's a game mechanic and thus irrelevant. Pick your poison.
Because I was illustrating the absurdity of trying to reference gameplay mechanics between different games like that.
Well, it'd be easier if there were some set ground rules to base our opinions on for the combat, build-wise. Plus, there were a lot of spells (and abilities) that were left out of DA2, so really, it can be said that Hawke had less options to choose from.
Like I said, this really depends on Hawke's build vs. the Warden's build. Since Hawke can learn spells the Warden can't and vice-versa, each has an edge the other doesn't. The deciding factors are the Warden's experience vs. Hawke's experience, the quality of their respective advantages, and their fighting styles. Technically, their armor and weapons can be factors too, but it is tricky to decide who had better equipment. Trying to limit them both to spells/abilities that they share in both games would hinder them both greatly.
I'll use my human-hating city elf as an example. He's been training since he was young, he uses his strength to his advantage, as well as his rage when needed. He is equipped with Sentinel armor and Starfang, and pain only makes him fight harder. And that's not to mention the enchantments on Starfang and his armor, which add to his resistance against normal attacks as well as spells and increase his damage output. I highly doubt any of my Hawkes would even be able to hurt him, much less beat him. Actually, I'm pretty sure he could roflpwn any of my other Wardens.
Not sure about anyone else, but I'm pretty damn sure that the Warden can be WAY more OP than Hawke.
(tbh, I think that the people who are saying Hawke would win are playing favorites and/or are thinking that the combat mechanics for both games are linked directly to the Warden and Hawke respectively, hence why several have said that Hawke would be too fast for the Warden)
mage v mage mage v rogue/warrior
1. Mana Clash 1. Repulsion Glyph (stand in centre)
2. Curse of Mortality 2. Curse of Mortality
3. Arcane Warrior 3. Arcane Warrior
4. Crushing Prison 4. Crushing Prison
5. Hawke's toast 5. Hawke's toast
(I always play as a mage warden)
Warden. Unique foes
Flemeth whatever she really is, Architect, Mother, Archdemon, Spectral High Dragon, Ser Cautherin, Armoured Ogres, Sentient Darkspawn - Disciples, Children, Blighted Werewolves
Hawke. Unique foes
Meredith, Corypheus, Arishok, Saarebas
And thats not including all the same foes they encountered. High Dragon, Harvester, Vartarel and various types of darkspawn, Demons, Abominations, templars, etc
all up Warden is kick ass
Whoever a Mage will win.
If both are Mages than I would say Hawke.
Cheese wins!
---The End---
I was just asking myself this question after running in Hawke in DAI.
In my mind, there's no question that the Warden would hand Hawke his/her ass on a platter. The classes of each are irrelevant. The Warden traveled to every corner of Ferelden, accomplishing far more than Hawke did. Hawke, for their strengths, was only Champion of a single city. And a rather crappy city at that.
The warden defeated Loghain in single combat and killed an archdemon, Hawke wouldn't stand a chance.
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