160 réponses à ce sujet

[Matt VT Schlo]

Talking to a bunch of gamer friends while playing Gears 2 last night, and the subject of Mass Effect 1 and 2 came up - we've all played em, loved the first one, and liked part 2. Most of us agreed that the mainstream aspects, and the 'dumbed down' RPG elements detracted from part 2

In light of the mainstreaming of DA 2, the group felt like that Bioware is clearly trying to attract the call of duty type crowds, and that the complicated RPGs are just too much for most gamers of the 1st person shooter genre to handle

The consensus of the group with ME2 was that your decisions didnt really matter, that the outcome was assured. IN ME1, if you didnt choose enough Charm or Intimidate skill points, you could not highligh a conversation that may have vastly affected the outcome of that situation. That rarely was an issue in 2.

I have no issue with Bioware wanting to sell a Gazillion copies, but not at the expense of RPG fans.I am sure this is more complicated to do that say, but why not have a custom menus/interaction system: those more geared for RPG fans, and those for Shooters?

I could see ME2 having had a more intense based RPG menu system, like Part 1, and the idea had me giddy

Thoughts? Any fears that ME3 will have an RPG menus system that a 5 year old could master?

No doubt ME 3 will have awesome characters and character situations - that was the highlight of ME2. But will it have anything resembling RPG at all anymore? Will we actually have to think about where we choose skill points.

Bottom line: me2 was too easy a game as a result of the tone shifting from RPG to action/shooter

Modifié par Matt VT Schlo, 06 mars 2011 - 04:06 .

[Bloggers99]

Led...they're.

Now that I've got that out of the way....making a game more user friendly isn't going to kill a genre. Also, the accessibility is the main selling point of the Mass Effect series now (and Dragon Age). They've sold millions of units and are doing phenomenally well.

I'm also a long time RPG fanatic. Been playing them since the NES and I've followed Bioware since Baldur's Gate. However, I don't see how people assume Mass Effect isn't a RPG. The fact that instead of having 5,000 choices that hardly change the game (Baldur's Gate style) isn't an option is not a flaw. Menus don't make the game a RPG either. It's a RPG because you play the role of Commander Shepard. You converse with people regularly, you can avoid conflict through dialogue, you investigate and solve the many mysteries of the universe (or missing credit chits) and do so via a wonderful role playing experience.

To say that ME2 isn't a RPG is foolish. It's an action-rpg. They just made sure action had as much real estate as the role playing.

[Phaedon]

You have already made two threads about this:
http://social.biowar...3/index/5469466
http://social.biowar...5/index/5554184

[Kiku_vas_Normandy]

We can hope what in ME 3 the game will reach a balance of all the great elements of the first two parts

[N7Infernox]

ME2 was more fun than (and just as memorable as) Mass Effect imho, despite the "dumbing down". And if you ask me, that's the only thing that really matters in the end.

[Matt VT Schlo]

Never said it wasnt an RPG. And Phaedon, feel free to move along - a topic your've not interested in, obviously. Alright, I'll shut up and go away........this board has way too many defensive people, even with those trying to put this into an intelligent way

If I had to sum up my fears with ME3 that I felt happened with part 2: your choices dont affect the outcome as it did with part 1

Peace

Modifié par Matt VT Schlo, 06 mars 2011 - 04:15 .

[Matt VT Schlo]

Not sure what happened to rest of comments

[Bloggers99]

Your sig is ironic, as is your debate technique. Someone says you're wrong so you say you're leaving and then stick around to troll the thread? Odd.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Now that's just insulting I have played RPGs for along time and still kick ass at call of duty me2 black ops and cod4 the new combat system flows better then the old and it's faster pace just because people play call of duty does mean we are all idiots, did you want the same damn game twice with redundant combat and now voice dialogue? Go play origins if you want that and don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of origins but the new dragon age is way more improved and there giving you an entire new game. So dont you dare think people who play call of duty can't figure bioware games out i never played me1 but I was able too embrace the story with open arms and figured out what happen as I went. Stop complaining snouts game that's going too give you months of entertainment. Say you won't buy it all you want most of you people that post this crap will end up buying it.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Sorry for the spelling errors typed that on my iPhone...

[N7Infernox]

Matt VT Schlo wrote...

Never said it wasnt an RPG. And Phaedon, feel free to move along - a topic your've not interested in, obviously. Alright, I'll shut up and go away........this board has way too many defensive people, even with those trying to put this into an intelligent way

If I had to sum up my fears with ME3 that I felt happened with part 2: your choices dont affect the outcome as it did with part 1

Peace

ME2 wasn't meant to entirely do that. Bioware always planned on a trilogy for Mass Effect, and ME2 was another leadup towards the arrival of the Reapers. Thus, ME2 was more of an expansion chapter that was parallel to ME1, instead diverting the focus to events in the Terminus Systems (rather than Council space). This also made ME2 very accessible to newcomers, despite the huge lore and the events of ME1. ME3 should tie up all of the plotlines, and show the full impact of our decisions from both previous games (hopefully).

[Phaedon]

Matt VT Schlo wrote...

Never said it wasnt an RPG. And Phaedon, feel free to move along - a topic your've not interested in, obviously. Alright, I'll shut up and go away........this board has way too many defensive people, even with those trying to put this into an intelligent way

If I had to sum up my fears with ME3 that I felt happened with part 2: your choices dont affect the outcome as it did with part 1

Peace

What topic. There is no topic of discussion. You claim that a) ME1 was a harder game than ME2, b)MW2 is every single COD game, while at the same time implying that shooters require no skill, c)That by dividing the inventory into 3 seperate ones (wardrobe, armory, lab terminal), the RPG genre is dying on consoles.

Also, you repeated this 3 times,since apparently the product of discussion of the other 2 threads was not satisfying enough.

So, what is the topic, again?

[DaPinkMenace]

He's certainly not trolling if his opinion is held by a large portion of the community... Don't worry OP, I totally agree with you- and Bioware has already said they want to bring the RPG crowd back into ME3, so we'll see a healthy balance between ME1 and ME2's elements. Personally I'd just go all the way back to ME1 style, but that's just me. I've loved Bioware for a while now, and I try not to say this to offend them, but Bioware is inherently a business before a developer, if they don't sell well, they don't expand, and in some cases: they go under.

[Geinrendour]

I'm not a huge RPG's fan, but is my favorite genre.
I don't think BioWare made ME2 less RPG, they just didn't focus only on that.

Also when developers made theirs games more "accessible" they usually make the game easy anyway.
And between the hardest level of ME1 and ME2, clearly Mass Effect 2 is harder to play than the first one. Last but not least do not compare ME with CoD in anyways. BioWare needs to sell, that doesn't mean they need the CoD audience. Also I have nothint agains CoD, I played the crap of it too.

Modifié par Geinrendour, 06 mars 2011 - 04:56 .

[mx3ze]

we don't care about RPG... as long as ME3 is awesome like ME1 and 2, Me2 was way better.

[The Spamming Troll]

Bloggers99 wrote...

Led...they're.

Now that I've got that out of the way....making a game more user friendly isn't going to kill a genre. Also, the accessibility is the main selling point of the Mass Effect series now (and Dragon Age). They've sold millions of units and are doing phenomenally well.

I'm also a long time RPG fanatic. Been playing them since the NES and I've followed Bioware since Baldur's Gate. However, I don't see how people assume Mass Effect isn't a RPG. The fact that instead of having 5,000 choices that hardly change the game (Baldur's Gate style) isn't an option is not a flaw. Menus don't make the game a RPG either. It's a RPG because you play the role of Commander Shepard. You converse with people regularly, you can avoid conflict through dialogue, you investigate and solve the many mysteries of the universe (or missing credit chits) and do so via a wonderful role playing experience.

To say that ME2 isn't a RPG is foolish. It's an action-rpg. They just made sure action had as much real estate as the role playing.

but i can do those same things in GTA4. i can choose my weapons, my clothes, i can decide who to kill on certain story lines, i can even get drunk at a bar if i wanted to. but has anyone ever mentioned RPG within GTA4s gameplay? nope.

ME2 isnt an RPG in my opinion. its a cover based third person shooter, just like GTA4, or maybe the obviouse gears of war.

ME1 is an RPG tho, but not ME2. atleast thats the way i look at it.

[Lumikki]

Most of us? I'm RPG fan, I don't agree with OP. Sure, ME2 was little too simplifyed, I would like more customation, but OP is talking like his opinion about RPG is the only one matters. I think too many of these people have forgot what word "role-playing" really means and how it's connectect to role-playing games (RPG).

[Bloggers99]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
but i can do those same things in GTA4. i can choose my weapons, my clothes, i can decide who to kill on certain story lines, i can even get drunk at a bar if i wanted to. but has anyone ever mentioned RPG within GTA4s gameplay? nope.

ME2 isnt an RPG in my opinion. its a cover based third person shooter, just like GTA4, or maybe the obviouse gears of war.

ME1 is an RPG tho, but not ME2. atleast thats the way i look at it.

That's a noble attempt at defacing my words, but I believe you've failed on more than one point. To turn your own lack of an argument against you, what is a RPG then? Having an inventory full of stuff you don't need? Can't say skills make it a RPG, because ME2 has skill points. Can't say leveling up or gaining exp, as you do that in ME2 as well. Better not say in depth interaction with npcs or bad guys as that's a big part of ME2 as well.

So, with the very little that's left, what makes a RPG to you?

Modifié par Bloggers99, 06 mars 2011 - 05:05 .

[Fallingblack]

There is a pretty vast gulf of difference between complexity that adds to a game, and needless complication.

[Thompson family]

Phaedon wrote...

You have already made two threads about this:
http://social.biowar...3/index/5469466
http://social.biowar...5/index/5554184

Good one, Phaedon.

[ZetaSheperd]

Matt VT Schlo wrote...
In light of the mainstreaming of DA 2, the group felt like that Bioware is clearly trying to attract the call of duty type crowds, and that the complicated RPGs are just too much for most gamers of the 1st person shooter genre to handle

This again!
If you "RGP type" think that you have some kind of superiorness compare to the "rest of the gamers" when it comes to judgement and UI manipulation you just prove yourself wrong by posting **** like this in the first place. You would know better. Re-read yourself and please enlarge your vision because this doesn't make you sound very clever.

It's all about patterns and personnal taste. Now if you want to discuss why your tastes are more worthy than others, i'm willing to listen.

[4yan3ric]

Every group has it's elitists I guess. I played Halo 3 much earlier than I did Mass Effect 1 but that didn't mean I did not understand it.

[Whatever42]

OP, what vastly different outcomes are there in ME1 because of Charm or Intimidate? It matters on a couple unimportant side missions is all.

I don't mind that people prefer the tactical gameplay of traditional RPGs over the action gameplay of new RPGs (Witcher, ME, DA2, Fallout 3 and NV) but be clear in your arguments and your points. Dragging in irrelevant (and incorrect) discussion points derails your entire thread.

[padaE]

So much nonsense!

[vader da slayer]

DaPinkMenace wrote...

He's certainly not trolling if his opinion is held by a large portion of the community... Don't worry OP, I totally agree with you- and Bioware has already said they want to bring the RPG crowd back into ME3, so we'll see a healthy balance between ME1 and ME2's elements. Personally I'd just go all the way back to ME1 style, but that's just me. I've loved Bioware for a while now, and I try not to say this to offend them, but Bioware is inherently a business before a developer, if they don't sell well, they don't expand, and in some cases: they go under.

except his opinion isn't held by a large portion of the community. look at his other threads that died off rather quickly. and as to the "they killed the inventory qq" they explained that keeping 12 team mates fully equiped and ready to go would be very hard to do for a lot of people who aren't big/hardcore/whatever you want to call it into rpgs. Im one of those that likes to do numbers but even I don't want to try and keep track of 12 different setups (not including my own) and make sure they all are optimal (not neccasarily min/maxed but optimal). Im one of those said "rpg crowd" and they diffently in no way got close to losing me, did I like that certain things got removed? no. but the game was still nothing short of amazing.