160 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

I personally wouldn't say that Mass Effect 2 represents the death of the RPG. One problem is that because Mass Effect included an inventory, people notice the absence in Mass Effect 2 as a loss. From the start, I didn't really think the inventory meshed well with the Mass Effect style of play. Breaking down omni-gel every 30 seconds doesn't strike me as very RPG-like.

[88mphSlayer]

Il Divo wrote...

I personally wouldn't say that Mass Effect 2 represents the death of the RPG. One problem is that because Mass Effect included an inventory, people notice the absence in Mass Effect 2 as a loss. From the start, I didn't really think the inventory meshed well with the Mass Effect style of play. Breaking down omni-gel every 30 seconds doesn't strike me as very RPG-like.

do people still do that? i did that my first time, but since then i just equip everybody with the latest and greatest, then goto the normandy's merchant dude and sell everything in the inventory, takes about 20 seconds to sell everything vs. 10+ minutes turning stuff into omnigel

[RideUrLightning]

Mass Effect 2 was definitely dumbed down, but DA2? I loved the demo...the only dumbing down I could tell would be getting rid of the character customization...

[Pwener2313]

Il Divo wrote...

Breaking down omni-gel every 30 seconds doesn't strike me as very RPG-like.

Man Im glad that is over and done with.

[Thompson family]

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

I would caution against using the term "RPGers" as a negative, however. I'm an RP-gamer, have been ever since I picked up a copy of Dragon Warrior 4 for the original NES system. I love RPGs because of their plotlines and their detailed worlds and characters (Usually, anyways). The term you're looking for is "RPG-Elitist"; who somehow feel that 'streamlining' cumbersome menu systems or jazzing up the combat from the usually-annoying 'I hit you, now you hit me, now I hit you again' system into something more approachable is 'dumbing down' the game.

As an RP-gamer, I love ME2. The combat is smooth and intuitive, the plotline is... Well, as a stand-alone it's DECENT. Not great, but decent. The characters are well-realized and seriously awesome, and it can appeal to a wide variety of gamers thanks to its simpler design, rather than keep out the 'non-elite' with cumbersome menus or uninspired combat. Is it a perfect game? Heck no. Is it one of the better games I've ever played? Yes, yes it is.

An extremely good point, Gentleman Moogle. I'll use "RPG-Elitist" from now on. Also, my apologies for lumping all RPG players into a single category.

Modifié par Thompson family, 07 mars 2011 - 12:29 .

[Aurgelmir]

There are two camps really, those who prefer the RP to the G, and vice versa.

For me it depends on the game which camp I fall into. For Mass Effect I'm playing it for the space opera, love the story. classic RPG features would feel out of place in that enviroment(would like more depth in the leveling system though).

For Dragon Age though I'm definitely playing it for the game, tweaking my character, paying attention to stats, trying to top my last crit. The story is just the engine that moves the combat forward. It is (was) old school fun that I've been enjoying for a long time.

[poisonoustea]

Why do people associate RPG with skill points and clumsy inventory systems? I liked how sleek and immediate ME2 felt. I don't really care about the mechanical aspects. What I want is believable characters, party banter, more dialogue, a Citadel which feels like an actual city, more atmosphere.

I'm pretty sure it can be pulled off, but I'm a bit scared seeing the treatment DA has received.

Modifié par poisonoustea, 07 mars 2011 - 02:44 .

[meiwow2]

Bloggers99 wrote...

making a game more user friendly isn't going to kill a genre. Also, the accessibility is the main selling point of the Mass Effect series now (and Dragon Age). They've sold millions of units and are doing phenomenally well.

Tell that to capcom and their re franshise.
About "selling"... you can sell drugs and make a lot of money, doesn't make it right does it?

[petipas1414]

Bioware did everything right... getting rid of the clumsy inventory, scrapping the mako, even making DLC for Liara. Bioware *should* have the trust of the entire community.

But still it's not enough

[MassEffect762]

As much as fans like the game you have to admit ME2 is far from perfect.

I suspect young fans and producers(EA) are credited with the direction Bioware is going.

[UKStory135]

How many ME2 sucks threads are there now? I just wish that I was as brilliant and sophisticated as all of the people that put these super insightful and all completely original threads and comments, but apparently I'm just a dumb Call of Duty fan.

[UKStory135]

petipas1414, I think you won the Internet

[DinoCrisisFreak]

Unfortunately BioWare is dumbing down their games. But as you can see, with threads like this (and many others like it), the fans aren't happy, and when the fans aren't happy, they make less money, and when they make less money they have to change their business strategy.

[wolfennights]

ME2 is definitely a real RPG. Play through with two different classes, with different powers leveled up, and tell me differently.

[Thompson family]

DinoCrisisFreak wrote...

Unfortunately BioWare is dumbing down their games. But as you can see, with threads like this (and many others like it), the fans aren't happy, and when the fans aren't happy, they make less money, and when they make less money they have to change their business strategy.

ME2 sales were at least as good as ME1. They were certainly no worse. Don't take my word for it. Check the sales on VG Chartz or anywhere else.

Now add in all the cash ME2 raked in from DLC sales -- Shadow Broker, weapons packs, appearance packs, and so forth. In terms of profitability, there is absolutely no comparison between the two on a business success level.

And while it's not cash, the rapturous critical praise heaped on this game certainly enhances BioWare's reputation -- and attracts investment.

As for the "number of threads," that's totally meaningless. As has already been pointed out on this very thread, the OP alone has three threads on the same topic going at once.

Same old same old. Repeating the same thing over and over again by the same people counts for nothing.

[Thompson family]

petipas1414 wrote...

Bioware did everything right... getting rid of the clumsy inventory, scrapping the mako, even making DLC for Liara. Bioware *should* have the trust of the entire community.

But still it's not enough

NIce quote, petpas 1414

[The Spamming Troll]

Bloggers99 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...
but i can do those same things in GTA4. i can choose my weapons, my clothes, i can decide who to kill on certain story lines, i can even get drunk at a bar if i wanted to. but has anyone ever mentioned RPG within GTA4s gameplay? nope.

ME2 isnt an RPG in my opinion. its a cover based third person shooter, just like GTA4, or maybe the obviouse gears of war.

ME1 is an RPG tho, but not ME2. atleast thats the way i look at it.

That's a noble attempt at defacing my words, but I believe you've failed on more than one point. To turn your own lack of an argument against you, what is a RPG then? Having an inventory full of stuff you don't need? Can't say skills make it a RPG, because ME2 has skill points. Can't say leveling up or gaining exp, as you do that in ME2 as well. Better not say in depth interaction with npcs or bad guys as that's a big part of ME2 as well.

So, with the very little that's left, what makes a RPG to you?

im not argueing here, but i can.

1. i would choose ME1s inventory full of guns, mods, and armors rather then ME2s complete lack of inventory. and dont even get me started on how, why, when, and where i finally find my adepts first SMG in ME2.

2. skills and earning EXP are all great RPG elements. although earnign EXP in ME2
goes by completely unnoticed. also leveling up in skills means nothing to you
or me, becasue every class levels in the almost exact same way. you
ever notice thre arent discusions on builds or classes? there not even much of a difference between a level 10 and a level 30 character in ME2. while ME1s level 20 and level 60 wouldnt even be in the same stratesphere.

3. dialogue options between NPCs means almost nothing in most instances.
sure sometimes you can throw a merc off a roof, seduce a random asari,
or even convinces saren to blow his own head off, but whether your
playing a paragon or a renegade or a complete bafoon, it wont change
the fact that youll still be fighting robosaren at the citadel or the
terminator at the collector base. just becasue you can be nice, bad, or neutral doesnt mean your actually choosing your own adventure.

im dont care what makes a game and RPG or not. im just simply saying in my opinion ME1 is an RPG and ME2 is not.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 07 mars 2011 - 05:29 .

[SSV Enterprise]

Aside from inventory, ME2 had everything element that made ME1 an RPG. Stuff like leveling up being more streamlined doesn't suddenly make it not an RPG element.

[Greatsultan]

[RGFrog]

That I'm still finding a few new ways to play the game over a year later...ME2 is a successful game and the universe as a franchise.

RPG or no, I'm not sure I care anymore. Aside from a couple of MP shooters that I still play for the comradery, ME2 is the first game that I can say I've come back to and still had fun doing it.

Does it really matter if it's RPG, action, shooter or some other pigeon hole title? Or, does it really matter that it's fun and has replay value? Sure there are things I'd like to see from ME1, but as a whole I don't think they'd make ME2 better. Just different.

Looking forward to ME3 and I imagine many that decry ME2 will be purchasing it right along side me.

[DinoCrisisFreak]

Thompson family wrote...

DinoCrisisFreak wrote...

Unfortunately BioWare is dumbing down their games. But as you can see, with threads like this (and many others like it), the fans aren't happy, and when the fans aren't happy, they make less money, and when they make less money they have to change their business strategy.

ME2 sales were at least as good as ME1. They were certainly no worse. Don't take my word for it. Check the sales on VG Chartz or anywhere else.

Now add in all the cash ME2 raked in from DLC sales -- Shadow Broker, weapons packs, appearance packs, and so forth. In terms of profitability, there is absolutely no comparison between the two on a business success level.

And while it's not cash, the rapturous critical praise heaped on this game certainly enhances BioWare's reputation -- and attracts investment.

As for the "number of threads," that's totally meaningless. As has already been pointed out on this very thread, the OP alone has three threads on the same topic going at once.

Same old same old. Repeating the same thing over and over again by the same people counts for nothing.

Sales /=/ Quality

Modifié par DinoCrisisFreak, 07 mars 2011 - 05:55 .

[88mphSlayer]

Aurgelmir wrote...

There are two camps really, those who prefer the RP to the G, and vice versa.

For me it depends on the game which camp I fall into. For Mass Effect I'm playing it for the space opera, love the story. classic RPG features would feel out of place in that enviroment(would like more depth in the leveling system though).

For Dragon Age though I'm definitely playing it for the game, tweaking my character, paying attention to stats, trying to top my last crit. The story is just the engine that moves the combat forward. It is (was) old school fun that I've been enjoying for a long time.

right i'm playing Planescape Torment at the moment and 90% of the game can be done just via talking/diplomacy, in fact it's pretty fun to avoid combat as much as possible in that game

would Dragon Age Origins work like that? nope, would Mass Effect? definitely not, would even other crpg's? not always

there's sometimes when it's nice to evolve a formula, make it better and make it different, then there's just making a different game, i dunno why people bring up ME2 as "dumbing down rpg's" when all it did was streamline an already dumbed down rpg  that everybody seemed to enjoy

[Lunatic LK47]

snakeboy86 wrote...

so basically the critiria for it to be an RPG is to handle way too many equipment, spend most of your time in menu's leveling up your character, and for the game to be turned based like in the old days, which in my opinion sucked even though i did love KOTOR. and were three threads on the same topic really necessary?

Free beer for you, buddy. Said it for me.

[Thompson family]

DinoCrisisFreak wrote...

Sales /=/ Quality

True -- and utterly contradictory to the argument you were trying to make, which was:

DinoCrisisFreak wrote...
But as you can see, with threads like this (and many others like it),
the fans aren't happy, and when the fans aren't happy, they make less
money, and when they make less money they have to change their business
strategy.

... or, to put it another way:

Quality /=/ sales

So which is it? If lower quality leads to a reduction in sales, then why did ME2 make more money?

If quality and sales are unrelated ....?

Modifié par Thompson family, 07 mars 2011 - 06:42 .

[Foxhound2020]

Im sorry, but if you think that this is an improvement in an RPG.....,you need your head scanned. Only a complete moron would need a talent system dumbed down this much, and less choices does not make a game more fun.


[quote]Lunatic LK47 wrote...

so basically the critiria for it to
be an RPG is to handle way too many equipment, spend most of your time
in menu's leveling up your character, and for the game to be turned
based like in the old days, which in my opinion sucked even though i did
love KOTOR. and were three threads on the same topic really
necessary?[/quote]
[/quote]
The real question is:
If it takes you most of your time to surf through menus to play an rpg, how intelligent can you be. Does it take you an hour to set the clock on your car stereo?

Modifié par Foxhound2020, 07 mars 2011 - 06:58 .