169 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

LyndseyCousland wrote...

It isn't just sleeping around. (Every king did that...) It's planning to ditch a loyal woman who isn't even 30 yet because she has supposedly "failed" as a royal brood mare.

He wasn't planning that though, he was severely peeved that his Uncle suggested it.
PLUS. Cailan was a king. He had bigger responsibilities to his country than he did to his wife.

According to Gaider via PAX, he actually was planning to dump Anora for Empress Celene.  This was meant to be a major plot in the game but they axed it.

[tmp7704]

Seeing how this is Cailan sympathy thread, this seems appropriate.

(courtesy of ziegedrachen )

Modifié par tmp7704, 25 avril 2011 - 06:26 .

[Addai]

That makes me laugh too hard.

I love Cailan, but part of it is being able to laugh at him.

[Costin_Razvan]

Addai67 wrote...

That makes me laugh too hard.

I love Cailan, but part of it is being able to laugh at him.

You just spent the better part of your fiction making Cailan into of the biggest ****s I ever read about.

And you love him? "Confused"

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

That makes me laugh too hard.

I love Cailan, but part of it is being able to laugh at him.

You just spent the better part of your fiction making Cailan into of the biggest ****s I ever read about.

And you love him? "Confused"

I do.    He has his own POV in my story, and his own reasons for acting as he does.  Doesn't make him a bad man.  I actually feel for Cailan, even in my own iteration where his faults drive a lot of the action.

[Costin_Razvan]

Doesn't make him a bad man

You believe someone betraying his country and committing adultery is not a bad man? I know that a lot of people in our history weren't so different but really?

I admit it is personal for me. Our last king here tried make his own path as a man, to prove himself in front of everyone and to try and do what ( he thought ) would help the nation.

He failed spectacullary at that and gave us comunism, and I see a lot of similarities between him and Cailan.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 25 avril 2011 - 10:35 .

[Addai]

He was not so different from his dad- strapped to a political marriage he didn't want and trying to bear a legacy that was too big for him. Maric muddled through. If Cailan hadn't died, he might have turned things around and done alright, too.

In my story, the man who raised him, the woman he loved, and his betrothed conspired behind his back and it drove him a little crazy.

[Costin_Razvan]

Addai67 wrote...

He was not so different from his dad- strapped to a political marriage he didn't want and trying to bear a legacy that was too big for him. Maric muddled through. If Cailan hadn't died, he might have turned things around and done alright, too.

In my story, the man who raised him, the woman he loved, and his betrothed conspired behind his back and it drove him a little crazy.

Since you did study history I want you to name a leader that was planning on doing what Cailan had been planning and which actually improved the situation of his/her country without screwing their culture and traditions.

[Addai]

Did I say I agreed with him, anywhere?  I didn't. However I believe that he thought that he was moving the country forward in a way that his father had tried to do, but only in half measures because Loghain was holding him (Maric) back.

Modifié par Addai67, 26 avril 2011 - 12:26 .

[Xavier St. Cloud]

That Cailan had visited Orzammar, remained receptive to the Dalish, showed interest in the Alienage, and was willing to give Howe his just deserts > Loghain / Anora and their conspiracy theories / power plays.

[Addai]

Cailan didn't visit Orzammar. His father had. He also doesn't show all that much interest in the alienage. I took it to be a polite brush-off. In fact I think his VO notes confirm that, for the dwarven origins at least. He's a charmer- that's his major talent. He does show that off well in Ostagar.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I still don't get how he is a charmer. Charm usually comes with at least the semblance of intelligence or sophistication. He may be sympathetic (I'd probably still lose my patience), but I see no charm at all. And I pray that Anora was lying.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 avril 2011 - 03:45 .

[kglaser]

Is it just really insensitive to pop my head in here to say that Cailan was really handsome?

[Rexiselic]

Xavier St. Cloud wrote...

That Cailan had visited Orzammar, remained receptive to the Dalish, showed interest in the Alienage, and was willing to give Howe his just deserts > Loghain / Anora and their conspiracy theories / power plays.

The unfortunate thing about good kind kings is that they are just that, good and kind.

Those same people tend not to be cunning or ruthless, which often leads to their own demise. Loghain and Anora are both of those things, but personally I don't trust to persons of such character to uphold justice or protect the land because they are in it for their own personal gain and not out of a sense of duty.

[Maria13]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I still don't get how he is a charmer. Charm usually comes with at least the semblance of intelligence or sophistication. He may be sympathetic (I'd probably still lose my patience), but I see no charm at all. And I pray that Anora was lying.

Believe me, KoP, for all his faults, even though you can't see it, probably because of your gender, he was a charmer.

In the same way you see Morrigan as a charmer (or are you going to intellectualise your attraction to her), and I, simply can't, probably because of my gender.

[Costin_Razvan]

Being charming doesn't make a person a good man, nor does it mean he can be an effective person.

I can safely say Daveth was charming, as was Zevran, Alistair ( and hell I'm a straight guy ), but Cailan never struck me as such...has to do with his GLORIOUS statement regarding war. ( as if war is EVER glorious ).

The only way he was maybe ( and I would say a big maybe ) would be if they had lost the battle at Ostagar and he had survived to see his men slaughterd by the thousands.

Just a maybe, but seeing as he had been in 3 battles already I doubt that.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 26 avril 2011 - 12:34 .

[Brawne]

Young fool, you will pay the price of your lack of vision, zzzzapppp zzhhhhh ziiiing zzzappp...

[Addai]

Perhaps you haven't played Ostagar with an elven character. My Dalish PCs wanted so badly to hate Cailan, and threw every aggressive dialogue option at him. He reacts with grace and humor. Likewise he's quite deft with dwarven characters. He is also compassionate to a Cousland PC.

@Rexiselic, I do not think that either Loghain or Anora are in it for personal gain. Anora is ambitious, but both of them believe what they are doing is best for the country and actually work quite selflessly toward that end. Although Anora is more like Cailan than she believes, confusing ambition and duty.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Maria13 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I still don't get how he is a charmer. Charm usually comes with at least the semblance of intelligence or sophistication. He may be sympathetic (I'd probably still lose my patience), but I see no charm at all. And I pray that Anora was lying.

Believe me, KoP, for all his faults, even though you can't see it, probably because of your gender, he was a charmer.

Nothing to do with my gender, I know a charming guy when I see one.

Like Costin, I found Alistair to be more charming than Cailan. Because at least Alistair didn't sound like an idiot every time he opened his mouth. Zevran was charming. Anders had charm in DA:A.

And of course, Xanatos is the father of all charm.

[Costin_Razvan]

Perhaps you haven't played Ostagar with an elven character. My Dalish PCs wanted so badly to hate Cailan, and threw every aggressive dialogue option at him. He reacts with grace and humor. Likewise he's quite deft with dwarven characters. He is also compassionate to a Cousland PC.

"Points at current avatar" Oh really?

This is Lyna Mahariel, as in the biggest **** that ever walked the Earth.

How Cailan reacts to hate speech means he is competent at talking like a politician, that is not charm.

Or perhaps he is THAT thick to not realize someone is insulting him, go figure.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 26 avril 2011 - 03:09 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Or perhaps he is THAT thick to not realize someone is insulting him, go figure.

I think he's too busy being excited to care.

Permanent sunshine face and broad smile like a doofus, especially considering the context (!!), hardly makes one charming on their own.
Or maybe that's cultural differences at play again.  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 avril 2011 - 03:16 .

[Maria13]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I still don't get how he is a charmer. Charm usually comes with at least the semblance of intelligence or sophistication. He may be sympathetic (I'd probably still lose my patience), but I see no charm at all. And I pray that Anora was lying.

Believe me, KoP, for all his faults, even though you can't see it, probably because of your gender, he was a charmer.

Nothing to do with my gender, I know a charming guy when I see one.

Like Costin, I found Alistair to be more charming than Cailan. Because at least Alistair didn't sound like an idiot every time he opened his mouth. Zevran was charming. Anders had charm in DA:A.

And of course, Xanatos is the father of all charm.

Don't know Xanatos... but your going to have to take my word and those of several dozen others for it KoP:

CAILAN IS CHARMING

I'm prepared to accept that charming is subjective.

[KnightofPhoenix]

If one is willing to consider idiocy and childishness as charming, then yea sure. It's subjective.

[Costin_Razvan]

Harrowmont has charm.

Yes he is a traditionalist who would sink his city into the ground but he definitely is a charmer ( assuming one can ignore that little episode at the gate ).

Cailan however....nope.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 26 avril 2011 - 03:34 .

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Perhaps you haven't played Ostagar with an elven character. My Dalish PCs wanted so badly to hate Cailan, and threw every aggressive dialogue option at him. He reacts with grace and humor. Likewise he's quite deft with dwarven characters. He is also compassionate to a Cousland PC.

"Points at current avatar" Oh really?

This is Lyna Mahariel, as in the biggest **** that ever walked the Earth.

How Cailan reacts to hate speech means he is competent at talking like a politician, that is not charm.

Or perhaps he is THAT thick to not realize someone is insulting him, go figure.

I didn't say he was being sincere- see upthread.  He's still good at it.

Naturally, you and KoP are immune to his charms.  It doesn't mean he doesn't have them.