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Is Isabela cheating on your warden?


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#151
Jenova65

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Takeva_ wrote...

lol they never had that type of relationship.

If so then my Warden cheated on her with Alistair, Zevran, and Leliana.

Same :whistle: :P

#152
palecurve

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KenKenpachi wrote...

palecurve wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

I personally prefer a man who doesn't need a map or sat nav when it comes to certain things, the last thing you need is someone checking a manual............. ;P


Thank you Jenova!  Experience = Win.  Every time.  As you get older, younger guys/gals, you'll understand.  It's actually harder to find someone who doesn't need a GPS when you pass 25 than it is to find someone who can't decide between a Gormin or a TomTom...

I'd give my right foot sometimes.  Thank god for my horrible toxic accident and limb regeneration, I can say that without any worry.

Unless your one of us who has one partner, is married and doesn't wish to take a risk of an STD with the random **** in the bar, club, party, or concert. Basically yah know the whole of non urbanized western society. In fact such antics are punishable with stoning or dissownment in more places than not.


...um, Ken...I didn't mean anything offensive by that.  I was talking from the perspective of someone who, a) is not in a committed relationship and is B) trying to find that.  At no point did I state this had anything to do with a one-night stand.  I was simply agreeing with Jenova that as you get older, when looking for someone to share your life with, when it comes to the physical side of things experience becomes more important than if you've been with 0 men/women or whatever.

I'm not sure how you jumped to a one-night stand and STDs from that, but take it from me that I'm talking about actually -finding- a partner, not just jumping through a bunch of hoops from woman to woman.  At the age I'm speaking of the bar/club/party/concert...if you're picking people up at clubs/concerts at 30, you need a serious head check.

No offense meant, brother - sorry if you misread that.

#153
palecurve

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KenKenpachi wrote...

palecurve wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

I personally prefer a man who doesn't need a map or sat nav when it comes to certain things, the last thing you need is someone checking a manual............. ;P


Thank you Jenova!  Experience = Win.  Every time.  As you get older, younger guys/gals, you'll understand.  It's actually harder to find someone who doesn't need a GPS when you pass 25 than it is to find someone who can't decide between a Gormin or a TomTom...

I'd give my right foot sometimes.  Thank god for my horrible toxic accident and limb regeneration, I can say that without any worry.

Unless your one of us who has one partner, is married and doesn't wish to take a risk of an STD with the random **** in the bar, club, party, or concert. Basically yah know the whole of non urbanized western society. In fact such antics are punishable with stoning or dissownment in more places than not.


...um, Ken...I didn't mean anything offensive by that.  I was talking from the perspective of someone who, a) is not in a committed relationship and is B) trying to find that.  At no point did I state this had anything to do with a one-night stand.  I was simply agreeing with Jenova that as you get older, when looking for someone to share your life with, when it comes to the physical side of things experience becomes more important than if you've been with 0 men/women or whatever.

I'm not sure how you jumped to a one-night stand and STDs from that, but take it from me that I'm talking about actually -finding- a partner, not just jumping through a bunch of hoops from woman to woman.  At the age I'm speaking of the bar/club/party/concert...if you're picking people up at clubs/concerts at 30, you need a serious head check.

No offense meant, brother - sorry if you misread that.

#154
Emzamination

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SgtPatches wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

SgtPatches wrote...

Joshd21 wrote...

This has nothing to do with virgins. In Dragon Age Orgins, Morrgian had a heavy sex appeal however she did not give in right away. She gave you just a hint of the flirt at the start, then as you become more interested she started flirting with you even more, making you work for it, causing you to want her. Then finally you had romance interest with her, having sex.

Even though she admitted having sex before with other men. However Isabela is flirt with a strong sex appeal same as Morrgian however Morrgian didn't offer to jump in bed with the Warden on their first meeting. My situation is this, if you already had sex with her as the Warden.

Then ten years laters, "Girls change etc" she starts to become a serious romantic interest my mind will keep flashing back to her and the warden, naked wrapped in each other's arms how quickly she was to offer herself to him and now she wants to settle down. I could take her for casual sex, but as a lasting real interest no. No doubt though she will have some serious content to her, giving a more in depth look at her history as you play the game


Ok one you do realize this is a game right? Hawke has no idea that Isabella has had sex with the GW from DA:O this sounds more like a personal issue...between you and a video game character. Honestly what your saying is if your GF/BFhad casual sex with someone 10+ years ago you would be upset...its a bit silly in my opinion.


It an Rpg

Role playing game

You are hawke and to him or her the game is the real world and not a video game.

Yes I'd be upset if it was someone I knew or family as in the mage wardens case ^_^


True and I would agree but in this case Hawke would have no idea about Isabella and GW as it took place long before he/she met her and if you do learn of her small escapade with the GW I don't believe you can hold it against her as she didn't even know you existed.






True but with the latter it will make family reunions quite awkward seeing as he or she has already sampled your meal :P

#155
Grimmdead

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Vhaius wrote...

One gangbang =/= going steady


takes 5 or more to be a official orgy...

#156
palecurve

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Jenova65 wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

palecurve wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

I personally prefer a man who doesn't need a map or sat nav when it comes to certain things, the last thing you need is someone checking a manual............. ;P


Thank you Jenova!  Experience = Win.  Every time.  As you get older, younger guys/gals, you'll understand.  It's actually harder to find someone who doesn't need a GPS when you pass 25 than it is to find someone who can't decide between a Gormin or a TomTom...

I'd give my right foot sometimes.  Thank god for my horrible toxic accident and limb regeneration, I can say that without any worry.

Unless your one of us who has one partner, is married and doesn't wish to take a risk of an STD with the random **** in the bar, club, party, or concert. Basically yah know the whole of non urbanized western society. In fact such antics are punishable with stoning or dissownment in more places than not.

Ummm, was I suggesting cheating on anyone? No.
I am married and completely faithful IRL, in games however I believe a bit more leeway can be given since none of them can actually give us an STD and................... IT'S NOT REAL.
It's a GAME it isn't life, there are dragons and magic, not tax returns and toilet cleaning.


Thhhhhank you.  As I was going to respond to your previous statement, I think we -all- made that statement when we were 18, eh?  Image IPB   I just see kids nowadays out there at shows I go to (I'm a musician) and it's just "throw all to the wind, whatever happens".  You can't do that, especially nowadays.  Maybe in the 80s/early 90s, maybe earlier.  Now?  No way.  You stated it, don't be daft, don't have your head on backwards, don't be too bloody concerned thinking with your pants instead of your cranium that you step off the ledge.

As someone SINGLE but looking for a COMMITTED RELATIONSHIP, not cheating, looking for booty calls/one-night stands at the pub or STDs, I was agreeing that at my age and further, experience is vastly more desirable.  I don't really want to have to explain to someone what something is by this point...if I have to, then it's time to leave.

#157
Emzamination

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Jenova65 wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

palecurve wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

I personally prefer a man who doesn't need a map or sat nav when it comes to certain things, the last thing you need is someone checking a manual............. ;P


Thank you Jenova!  Experience = Win.  Every time.  As you get older, younger guys/gals, you'll understand.  It's actually harder to find someone who doesn't need a GPS when you pass 25 than it is to find someone who can't decide between a Gormin or a TomTom...

I'd give my right foot sometimes.  Thank god for my horrible toxic accident and limb regeneration, I can say that without any worry.

Unless your one of us who has one partner, is married and doesn't wish to take a risk of an STD with the random **** in the bar, club, party, or concert. Basically yah know the whole of non urbanized western society. In fact such antics are punishable with stoning or dissownment in more places than not.

Ummm, was I suggesting cheating on anyone? No.
I am married and completely faithful IRL, in games however I believe a bit more leeway can be given since none of them can actually give us an STD and................... IT'S NOT REAL.
It's a GAME it isn't life, there are dragons and magic, not tax returns and toilet cleaning.


Fable begs to differ :whistle:

#158
renzuko

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Jenova65 wrote...

palecurve wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

I personally prefer a man who doesn't need a map or sat nav when it comes to certain things, the last thing you need is someone checking a manual............. ;P


Thank you Jenova!  Experience = Win.  Every time.  As you get older, younger guys/gals, you'll understand.  It's actually harder to find someone who doesn't need a GPS when you pass 25 than it is to find someone who can't decide between a Gormin or a TomTom...

I'd give my right foot sometimes.  Thank god for my horrible toxic accident and limb regeneration, I can say that without any worry.

Well it is true you can't put an old head on young shoulders.


bioware seems to disagree *cough*wynne*cough

#159
palecurve

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renzuko wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

palecurve wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

I personally prefer a man who doesn't need a map or sat nav when it comes to certain things, the last thing you need is someone checking a manual............. ;P


Thank you Jenova!  Experience = Win.  Every time.  As you get older, younger guys/gals, you'll understand.  It's actually harder to find someone who doesn't need a GPS when you pass 25 than it is to find someone who can't decide between a Gormin or a TomTom...

I'd give my right foot sometimes.  Thank god for my horrible toxic accident and limb regeneration, I can say that without any worry.

Well it is true you can't put an old head on young shoulders.


bioware seems to disagree *cough*wynne*cough


ZIIIING  Well played Image IPB

#160
Grimmdead

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palecurve wrote...

[
Thhhhhank you.  As I was going to respond to your previous statement, I think we -all- made that statement when we were 18, eh?  Image IPB   I just see kids nowadays out there at shows I go to (I'm a musician) and it's just "throw all to the wind, whatever happens".



As a fellow musician, (slightly random) what are your thoughts if Bioware, or Inon Zur released tableture on playing the dragonage music, or that someone creates a way to get the music into tableture form on guitarpro (program) so that people can learn to play the dragonage music?

i think some people just get a bit too into the game when they become so obsessive over who they are going to have sex with on each gameplay.

#161
Emzamination

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Grimmdead wrote...

i think some people just get a bit too into the game when they become so obsessive over who they are going to have sex with on each gameplay.


*Sigh* Has the term role playing lost all sense of meaning? If someone is obessesive over who they bed in real life the naturally that personality will be reflected on their virtual selves.

As for getting to into the game well thats the point to immerse yourself ;)

Modifié par Emzamination, 06 mars 2011 - 11:45 .


#162
palecurve

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Grimmdead wrote...

palecurve wrote...

[
Thhhhhank you.  As I was going to respond to your previous statement, I think we -all- made that statement when we were 18, eh?  Image IPB   I just see kids nowadays out there at shows I go to (I'm a musician) and it's just "throw all to the wind, whatever happens".



As a fellow musician, (slightly random) what are your thoughts if Bioware, or Inon Zur released tableture on playing the dragonage music, or that someone creates a way to get the music into tableture form on guitarpro (program) so that people can learn to play the dragonage music?

i think some people just get a bit too into the game when they become so obsessive over who they are going to have sex with on each gameplay.


For the love, I'd be THRILLED to step away from this rollercoaster of a thread to talk to a fellow musician.  Personally, I would be absolutely elated and blown away if they did that.  It's -so- rare and almost unheard of to get any sort of tab or even notation when it comes to game scores...and as someone who does certain cover songs by ear (you ever notice some tab books are just completely off when it comes to some songs? Like, any Floyd tab book...I dunno who was smoking what but some of them are like...did you listen to the song, whoever wrote this?) it would help greatly.

Since a lot of DA:O and it seems DA2's music is ambient, it'd be hard...but there are certain themes I'd love to get my hands on.  I dunno what style you listen to or prefer, but for instance, the main kind of..."war" theme of DA:O?  That would sound INCREDIBLE with some drop-d tuning, some drum n' bass for rhythm...it could make a friggin' SLAYING metal track.  I'm the most experienced with piano, drums and vocals...and I can't even do notation of the song I'm talking about (it's the one that plays at the beginning of the game, in minor notes)...there's not enough detail you can hear.

....hey, you have a good idea.  We should bring this up and see if they could put tab out for like, DA:O/Awakening/DA2 in one book.  I think it'd be a custom-type item, but I know if you and I would buy it, there are totally other people out there who'd be interested.

#163
Jenova65

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palecurve wrote...
Thhhhhank you.  As I was going to respond to your previous statement, I think we -all- made that statement when we were 18, eh?  Image IPB   I just see kids nowadays out there at shows I go to (I'm a musician) and it's just "throw all to the wind, whatever happens".  You can't do that, especially nowadays.  Maybe in the 80s/early 90s, maybe earlier.  Now?  No way.  You stated it, don't be daft, don't have your head on backwards, don't be too bloody concerned thinking with your pants instead of your cranium that you step off the ledge.

As someone SINGLE but looking for a COMMITTED RELATIONSHIP, not cheating, looking for booty calls/one-night stands at the pub or STDs, I was agreeing that at my age and further, experience is vastly more desirable.  I don't really want to have to explain to someone what something is by this point...if I have to, then it's time to leave.

 
No you can't do that now................ sadly................. JOKING.
Tbh honest when you hit a certain age whether someone is a virgin is LAST question you would dream of asking, cos you are busy trying to find out if this is a good and decent person, what you have in common and whether you are compatible - virginity is not even on the check list :P
Anyway, good luck I'm sure musician + looking for relationship will = ladies (or gents, not my place to assume) dropping at your feet! 

#164
Jenova65

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Emzamination wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

palecurve wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

I personally prefer a man who doesn't need a map or sat nav when it comes to certain things, the last thing you need is someone checking a manual............. ;P


Thank you Jenova!  Experience = Win.  Every time.  As you get older, younger guys/gals, you'll understand.  It's actually harder to find someone who doesn't need a GPS when you pass 25 than it is to find someone who can't decide between a Gormin or a TomTom...

I'd give my right foot sometimes.  Thank god for my horrible toxic accident and limb regeneration, I can say that without any worry.

Unless your one of us who has one partner, is married and doesn't wish to take a risk of an STD with the random **** in the bar, club, party, or concert. Basically yah know the whole of non urbanized western society. In fact such antics are punishable with stoning or dissownment in more places than not.

Ummm, was I suggesting cheating on anyone? No.
I am married and completely faithful IRL, in games however I believe a bit more leeway can be given since none of them can actually give us an STD and................... IT'S NOT REAL.
It's a GAME it isn't life, there are dragons and magic, not tax returns and toilet cleaning.


Fable begs to differ :whistle:

O RLY? You actually went to a doctor with your pretend STD did you?
What was that?
No?
Thought not :P

#165
Sphynx118

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The girl is a hoe. Ofc shes cheating on your warden, zevran, that chair in denerim and it wont be long untill she cheats on hawke too

#166
Jenova65

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renzuko wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

palecurve wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

I personally prefer a man who doesn't need a map or sat nav when it comes to certain things, the last thing you need is someone checking a manual............. ;P


Thank you Jenova!  Experience = Win.  Every time.  As you get older, younger guys/gals, you'll understand.  It's actually harder to find someone who doesn't need a GPS when you pass 25 than it is to find someone who can't decide between a Gormin or a TomTom...

I'd give my right foot sometimes.  Thank god for my horrible toxic accident and limb regeneration, I can say that without any worry.

Well it is true you can't put an old head on young shoulders.


bioware seems to disagree *cough*wynne*cough

She is just well preserved....................................................................... like Raquel Welch......... so prrrft to you  :whistle::P

#167
Grimmdead

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palecurve wrote...

For the love, I'd be THRILLED to step away from this rollercoaster of a thread to talk to a fellow musician.  Personally, I would be absolutely elated and blown away if they did that.  It's -so- rare and almost unheard of to get any sort of tab or even notation when it comes to game scores...and as someone who does certain cover songs by ear (you ever notice some tab books are just completely off when it comes to some songs? Like, any Floyd tab book...I dunno who was smoking what but some of them are like...did you listen to the song, whoever wrote this?) it would help greatly.

Since a lot of DA:O and it seems DA2's music is ambient, it'd be hard...but there are certain themes I'd love to get my hands on.  I dunno what style you listen to or prefer, but for instance, the main kind of..."war" theme of DA:O?  That would sound INCREDIBLE with some drop-d tuning, some drum n' bass for rhythm...it could make a friggin' SLAYING metal track.  I'm the most experienced with piano, drums and vocals...and I can't even do notation of the song I'm talking about (it's the one that plays at the beginning of the game, in minor notes)...there's not enough detail you can hear.

....hey, you have a good idea.  We should bring this up and see if they could put tab out for like, DA:O/Awakening/DA2 in one book.  I think it'd be a custom-type item, but I know if you and I would buy it, there are totally other people out there who'd be interested.


You'll have to find my post about Inon Zur (for musicians) from looking at my profile, I suggested it.... no comments or uptakers. I'm not a player to learn a song by ear, I need to see the music score either the notes, or "Tableture" in order to get it but I can play anything if I see it and am given a few minutes. I sent a email into Inon's personal website, at the most well get the score for the Florence and Inon Zur song that they did for the credits.

I know what your talking about, I prefer my guitars (when I had them, house fcaught fire a month back and am waiting for insurance money on my stuff miss my collector "rare" washburn lyon LDD10, crappy guitar to most people, but I loved the feel it had, and I loved to play everything from alt metal, to heavy metal, classic rock, and jazz in drop C# on that thing.

On the side note..... my Mabari probably gets more action in licking himself then some of the "why have sex in a video game" posters. Alas - theres no mod out for that (that we know of, could be unreleased.....)

Seriously.

I personally want to take the Hawke Theme, and put a nice clean electric guitar solo over it

Modifié par Grimmdead, 06 mars 2011 - 11:58 .


#168
Emzamination

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Jenova65 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

palecurve wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

I personally prefer a man who doesn't need a map or sat nav when it comes to certain things, the last thing you need is someone checking a manual............. ;P


Thank you Jenova!  Experience = Win.  Every time.  As you get older, younger guys/gals, you'll understand.  It's actually harder to find someone who doesn't need a GPS when you pass 25 than it is to find someone who can't decide between a Gormin or a TomTom...

I'd give my right foot sometimes.  Thank god for my horrible toxic accident and limb regeneration, I can say that without any worry.

Unless your one of us who has one partner, is married and doesn't wish to take a risk of an STD with the random **** in the bar, club, party, or concert. Basically yah know the whole of non urbanized western society. In fact such antics are punishable with stoning or dissownment in more places than not.

Ummm, was I suggesting cheating on anyone? No.
I am married and completely faithful IRL, in games however I believe a bit more leeway can be given since none of them can actually give us an STD and................... IT'S NOT REAL.
It's a GAME it isn't life, there are dragons and magic, not tax returns and toilet cleaning.


Fable begs to differ :whistle:

O RLY? You actually went to a doctor with your pretend STD did you?
What was that?
No?
Thought not :P


Touché :pinched:

#169
renzuko

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Emzamination wrote...

Grimmdead wrote...

i think some people just get a bit too into the game when they become so obsessive over who they are going to have sex with on each gameplay.


*Sigh* Has the term role playing lost all sense of meaning? If someone is obessesive over who they bed in real life the naturally that personality will be reflected on their virtual selves.

As for getting to into the game well thats the point to immerse yourself ;)


yes but as others have pointed out, unless isabella is VERY upfront about her enjoyment of casual sex and the fact that its possible that she screwed the grey warden from origins, zevran, alistair and lelianna, hawke wont know, and the only way he would know, is if as i stated above, isabella outright tells him, or someone else mentions it to him, which i kinda doubt will happen, "she had sex with a grey warden" isnt really...well actually pre da:o being known as someone who had sex with a grey warden might be bad, but post blight, when they kinda...saved fereldens kiester, might not be so terrible

on a mabari note...i found some of the mabari ****** places kinda...offensive to my warden? like in witch hunt, one of the mabari ****** area's is the corpse of a dalish elf in the place with the mirror >.> my warden was a dalish elf

Modifié par renzuko, 06 mars 2011 - 11:58 .


#170
Jenova65

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Emzamination wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

palecurve wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

I personally prefer a man who doesn't need a map or sat nav when it comes to certain things, the last thing you need is someone checking a manual............. ;P


Thank you Jenova!  Experience = Win.  Every time.  As you get older, younger guys/gals, you'll understand.  It's actually harder to find someone who doesn't need a GPS when you pass 25 than it is to find someone who can't decide between a Gormin or a TomTom...

I'd give my right foot sometimes.  Thank god for my horrible toxic accident and limb regeneration, I can say that without any worry.

Unless your one of us who has one partner, is married and doesn't wish to take a risk of an STD with the random **** in the bar, club, party, or concert. Basically yah know the whole of non urbanized western society. In fact such antics are punishable with stoning or dissownment in more places than not.

Ummm, was I suggesting cheating on anyone? No.
I am married and completely faithful IRL, in games however I believe a bit more leeway can be given since none of them can actually give us an STD and................... IT'S NOT REAL.
It's a GAME it isn't life, there are dragons and magic, not tax returns and toilet cleaning.


Fable begs to differ :whistle:

O RLY? You actually went to a doctor with your pretend STD did you?
What was that?
No?
Thought not :P


Touché :pinched:

Although talking about that, that b*stard Elliot gave me about 6 STDs in one playthrough, I know it was him cos I was a virgin until he came along AND I was faithful (swine must've been seeing Isabela........... :lol:) He didn't care about me or our three kids :?

#171
Grimmdead

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BWHAAHHAHHAHA! Thats pretty sad, I wasn't a fan of WH untill the moment where my warden stabbed Morrigan... made me smile a bit when I saw the option; forgot about the Dalish elf corpse....

In Orgins, the dog got to pee on the tent in the Dalish camp.

was the corpse that of a cousin perhaps?


Mabari's, a great inovation and hidden comic releaf from time to time. Hope that Bioware keeps it up

#172
Emzamination

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renzuko wrote...



Emzamination wrote...

Grimmdead wrote...

i think some people just get a bit too into the game when they become so obsessive over who they are going to have sex with on each gameplay.


*Sigh* Has the term role playing lost all sense of meaning? If someone is obessesive over who they bed in real life the naturally that personality will be reflected on their virtual selves.

As for getting to into the game well thats the point to immerse yourself ;)


yes but as others have pointed out, unless isabella is VERY upfront about her enjoyment of casual sex and the fact that its possible that she screwed the grey warden from origins, zevran, alistair and lelianna, hawke wont know, and the only way he would know, is if as i stated above, isabella outright tells him, or someone else mentions it to him, which i kinda doubt will happen, "she had sex with a grey warden" isnt really...well actually pre da:o being known as someone who had sex with a grey warden might be bad, but post blight, when they kinda...saved fereldens kiester, might not be so terrible

on a mabari note...i found some of the mabari ****** places kinda...offensive to my warden? like in witch hunt, one of the mabari ****** area's is the corpse of a dalish elf in the place with the mirror >.> my warden was a dalish elf


In the case of the mage warden bringing up the name Amell should Incite a

I: "I had a fling with a grey warden by that last name.Any chance of relation?"

H:"Name?"

I:"(Name) amell"

H:"yes mother had a (relation) by that name"

:blush:

Jenova65 wrote...

Although talking about that, that b*stard Elliot gave me about 6 STDs in one playthrough, I know it was him cos I was a virgin until he came along AND I was faithful (swine must've been seeing Isabela........... :lol:) He didn't care about me or our three kids :?


At least they got that aspect of life correct :D

Modifié par Emzamination, 07 mars 2011 - 12:08 .


#173
EscherEnigma

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Just re-read the whole thread to make sure I didn't miss any context, but still one thing bothers me, Josh21...

Joshd21 wrote...

My PC can have casual sex but not seriously find her a serious love interest that's because how "open" she was with her sexaulity to other men. I thought at first when I saw the Dev's interact girl she was just some flirty girl who really didn't give it up, just kinda teasing. Now I recall her from orgins, she did indeed do some things.

... so, your character can have casual sex without a serious relationship, and later on find a serious relationship, but if Isabella does the same thing she's no good?  How's that fair?

#174
Jenova65

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Emzamination wrote...
At least they got that aspect of life correct :D

Well I only married the t*sser because he doesn't wear a hat and isn't a screaming munter :P I think Peter M took the ''You can leave your hat on'', line a little too seriously when making Fable folk <_<;)

#175
Curlain

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Jenova65 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...
At least they got that aspect of life correct :D

Well I only married the t*sser because he doesn't wear a hat and isn't a screaming munter :P I think Peter M took the ''You can leave your hat on'', line a little too seriously when making Fable folk <_<;)


Clearing proving you can never trust a man who doesn't keep his hat on :innocent: