666 réponses à ce sujet

[egervari]

I think the game may possibly need some rebalancing. There is a good chance that it is my ignorance that is causing me to think the game needs some rebalancing, but one can't master this game in a few hours without reading guides and getting lots of strategic help, both of which I haven't done.

- They made the easy difficulty easier. This to me seems like a step in the wrong direction. Many people said easy was already easy... and they made it easier?

- On normal, some battles can be frustratingly cheap. Such battles should be scaled back, or fix the problems below and maybe they won't be a problem. Once the party gains in levels, the normal battles become easy, and even the boss battles become pretty easy too. The hardest are battles with mages, or mage-like effects - exploding fire with shattering shots mixed into a single attack, cone of cold, mass stuns and/or knockdowns, etc.

- melee abilities cost too much stamina. Mages can pot all they want, and they get more stamina/mana. When battles are long (and the hard ones are), it makes any melee character more and more worthless. I think the over-reliance on pots is kind of bad as it is. With so few mages to take into your party in the game, it encourages playing one as the main character. Warriors are the least favoured class to start out with because you have a lot to choose from, and they aren't needed.

- Bonuses to stats or dervived stats is just bad. Arcane Mastery is supposed to give a big bonus to spellpower, yet I don't see any real impact. It is not worth the 2 talent points I spent. My heals only heal alistair by 1/3 or even 1/4 of his total health at level 14. That's a freaking joke. It's better to just make pots and use those. Deathblow doesn't give enough stamina to be worth a stat point. The rejuv spells doesn't give enough either. It hardly makes a difference because everything costs so much.

- With the over-emphasis on mages, it makes "should be balanced" parties "unbalanced". Many people have stated if they could run 4 mages, they would.

- Because some talents at tier 3 and 4 turn out to be utter crap, the character becomes nerfed beyond belief. Because not all skills are equal, there should be a way to respec, unless suffer the consequences of playing 30+ hours to redo the characters (or cheat).

-  Poor ai becomes a problem, and has caused some losing battles, even when I recognize the bad AI in the same second it's going off... there is a few second delay to changing the orders, which is often not enough time. For example, a character needs to be healed in a pinch because of a crit... and the mage is casting rejuv... you pause and cast heal and unpause... and then another crit happens against the same character and it dies. To me, the rejuv was .2 seconds into casting, yet the game finished casting it rather than canceled it. This happens with alarming frequency :/

As an aside, there's also a chest imbalance in the game where the player can go to the circle tower or the forest on their first go... yet having 3/4 pick locks/traps skill still can't open the chests. This forces the player to go back to those areas later, which just wastes time. Granted there aren't any important items in those tier 4 chests... but how is the player supposed to know that? I think the chests should scale according to the areas the player can access. All the chests in those areas should be pickable with a tier 3 rogue.

[cipher86]

Yes, the game has an overreliance on mages, and as such many parties are considered unbalanced (like you said). If you decide to roll with a classic Tank/Warrior DPS/Rogue/Mage party, you're setting yourself up for a REALLY difficult (at times near impossible) playthrough, whereas if you go Tank/Mage/Mage/Mage, well, it feels like the game was designed for this sort of party.

[Unbroken Lineage]

Welcome to DA:O, a game about choices.

[Skellimancer]

Its infuriating just how powerful mages are.



The annoying part is when people say its lore and mages are rare, yet all monster groups have a mage.



I think the main designer of DA:O was a Kensai/Mage Baldur's Gate fanatic.



Hoping some decent Modder will rebalance this.

[Eleanore]

Hm. So just don't play with three mages? I play with Rogue/DPS Mage/Healer/Tank, and so far I find it challenging yet not unfair.

[Unbroken Lineage]

Skellimancer wrote...

Its infuriating just how powerful mages are.

Mages are, by definition, more powerful than warriors and rogues and so on.  In what fantasy RPG is this not the case?

Eleanore wrote...

Hm. So just don't play with three mages? I play with Rogue/DPS Mage/Healer/Tank, and so far I find it challenging yet not unfair.

I'm playing a crowd control mage, with Zevran, Shale and Wynn on hard and it's great fun, no cakewalk.

Modifié par Unbroken Lineage, 15 novembre 2009 - 03:38 .

[DM Veil]

Welcome to a world where magic is powerful and feared as a result. There's a reason mages are confined to the Circle if they don't want to be hunted down; it's to keep a close eye on them. I don't understand the need to balance a mage and a warrior with each other with a game that's about team tactics and not about competing with one another.

[Leetabix]

mages are feared becuse of blood magic , not becuse cone of cold is the awsome.

[Spaceweed10]

All a matter of opinion - I'm playing on 'hard', and having a blast. Challenging and tactical.

[OnesOwnGrief]

Magic isn't that much of a problem. I run a Tank/Rogue/Magex2 group. DPS Mage and healer Mage. Been playing from Nightmare from the very beginning and strategy is something I just acquired from years on FFXI, Valkyria Chronicles, Turnbased Strategic RPGs, and stints of NWN as well as FFXII. The fact this game isn't that far removed from FFXII just made it that much more easier for me since both my mages are almost completely ran off of Tactics I set up myself. I keep control off my tank and the rogue pretty much backstabs everything without care.



I tend to also Taunt every enemy then charge headstrong into a mage and take it out while one the DPS mage sleeps the group on me. The game could be more difficult in my opinion on nightmare than it already is but I took down a dragon on my third attempt no problem without tons of fire resistance. Force Field is your friend and Taunt+ Threaten kept it on me majority of the fight.



Melee abilities in my opinion do not cost much either, problem is that your melees generally start out with low Willpower, Mages start with higher willpower. I went through most of the game with just Taunt and Shield Wall with no problems on my Stamina since after a few plays to get a feel for the game (about 5 restarts) I learned that Taunt was the Superior tanking ability rather than the sustained ability Threaten.

[pscantland]

Skellimancer wrote...

Its infuriating just how powerful mages are.

The annoying part is when people say its lore and mages are rare, yet all monster groups have a mage.

I think the main designer of DA:O was a Kensai/Mage Baldur's Gate fanatic.

Hoping some decent Modder will rebalance this.

That was my character in Baldur's Gate... loved it SO much.    But the Arcane Warrior in DA is nowhere close to the Kensai-Mage combination in BG in terms of power : I'd NEVER single-play DA with my Arcane Warrior.  Impossible.

[egervari]

It could be that I am not running 2 mages that I think the game is unbalanced. I don't run morrigan for the pure reason that she disagrees with everything I do. I had her at hostile within hours of getting her. Wynn is the only other character I can pick... so I guess if you want to be a "good" character, you have to play as a dps/cc mage yourself? It would appear so. Seems pretty limited.

I'm at a point now where I'm so far into the game that I've made too many mistakes to do much about my choices. 

To be fair, I don't find every battle hard - I just find battles with 2 mages way in the back of the battle casting all kind of crazy to be hard because I don't have any good answer to it. And with the realization that skills in high tiers kind of suck and don't help much, I feel like I'm level 10 in a level 15 area.

[hexaligned]

Mana is a limitless resource. Mana pots are way way too easy to get/craft. There needs to be SOMETHING that limits how many spells you can cast in a battle.

[egervari]

OnesOwnGrief wrote...

Magic isn't that much of a problem. I run a Tank/Rogue/Magex2 group. DPS Mage and healer Mage. Been playing from Nightmare from the very beginning and strategy is something I just acquired from years on FFXI, Valkyria Chronicles, Turnbased Strategic RPGs, and stints of NWN as well as FFXII. The fact this game isn't that far removed from FFXII just made it that much more easier for me since both my mages are almost completely ran off of Tactics I set up myself. I keep control off my tank and the rogue pretty much backstabs everything without care.

I tend to also Taunt every enemy then charge headstrong into a mage and take it out while one the DPS mage sleeps the group on me. The game could be more difficult in my opinion on nightmare than it already is but I took down a dragon on my third attempt no problem without tons of fire resistance. Force Field is your friend and Taunt+ Threaten kept it on me majority of the fight.

Melee abilities in my opinion do not cost much either, problem is that your melees generally start out with low Willpower, Mages start with higher willpower. I went through most of the game with just Taunt and Shield Wall with no problems on my Stamina since after a few plays to get a feel for the game (about 5 restarts) I learned that Taunt was the Superior tanking ability rather than the sustained ability Threaten.

That's part of the problem. You and all the above posters who "don't have a problem" are running 2 mages. So basically in order to have all the tactical options available, you must run 2 or more mages? This is a design problem, especially since there are only 2 mages in the entire game you can pick from.... and loads of useless warriors.

[Sloth Of Doom]

I am currently running a DW warrior with Sten, Alistair and Ohggy tagging along, on normal mode.



It is a bit rough in places, usually where there are a lot of enemy ranged opponents, but t is by no mans unplayable.

[Loc'n'lol]

DM Veil wrote...

I don't understand the need to balance a mage and a warrior with each other with a game that's about team tactics and not about competing with one another.

Fine. Can I take my 5 rogues/warriors with me to make up for our lack of awesome ? Oh wait I can't, we have to be four, no more. This is the reason why it should be balanced.

[zanzabar209]

enemy mages seem to be my only problem in the game .only way i usually die

[chizow]

Unbroken Lineage wrote...

Welcome to DA:O, a game about choices.

That's the point though, DA:O's reliance on mages removes much of your choices because the game is so mage-centric by design.  Not to mention mages have more viable choices within their Spell trees compared to Rogue/Warrior, as the weapon/class talent trees themselves are nowhere near as flexible and modular compared to Mage spell trees.

Anyways, I agree with the OP, I don't think anyone cares mages are imbalanced, they just want to see other classes improved so that there's actual game choices to be made without using the same 2 mages in every playthru, with some flexibility if you choose a mage as your own PC.

[Cadaveth]

You should have a mage with crowd control abilities. They help a alot, then you have healer/buffer + CC/DPS (yes I know, healer+CC for one mage and pure DPS for the other would've been better but that's fine too). I'm running mage, Wynne, Alistair And Oghren. I switched Oghren to Sten and Zevran sometimes and it seemed fine too. I think I'd die constantly if I used 3 mages.

Your answer to 2 mages casting in the back: Alistair with his 4th tier templar ability, mage with paralysis/mass paralysis, stone fist, earthquake, blood magic, mana clash, virulent walking bomb etc. You could control melee enemies attacking you with well placed mind blast and send one of your tanks to interrupt the crap out of the mages.

E: You can manage this with one mage.

Modifié par Cadaveth, 15 novembre 2009 - 10:46 .

[Unbroken Lineage]

No one forces you to play with mages. Play on easy and take it easy.  Or you can bump up the difficulty if you build the rest of your team accordingly, accounting for the various needs: damage mitigation, damage output, crowd control, targetted de-buffing, healing and so on.  It's much easier with one or two mages, but you have all of the tools in the warrior and rogue lines.  Go to town.

In what other party-based fantasy RPG have you ever opted-out of taking magic users? In what other party-based fantasy RPG is taking all melee a viable option?

Modifié par Unbroken Lineage, 15 novembre 2009 - 11:01 .

[Inarai]

In some ways, this game's mage reliance reminds me of DnD 3.5 if played without Tome of Battle - a book which basically gave melee charactrs abilities on par with mages.



And that's the secret, really. If balance IS the goal, and I'm not saying it is, then that's how you do it.

[egervari]

chizow wrote...

Unbroken Lineage wrote...

Welcome to DA:O, a game about choices.

That's the point though, DA:O's reliance on mages removes much of your choices because the game is so mage-centric by design.  Not to mention mages have more viable choices within their Spell trees compared to Rogue/Warrior, as the weapon/class talent trees themselves are nowhere near as flexible and modular compared to Mage spell trees.

Anyways, I agree with the OP, I don't think anyone cares mages are imbalanced, they just want to see other classes improved so that there's actual game choices to be made without using the same 2 mages in every playthru, with some flexibility if you choose a mage as your own PC.

I would agree with all of this. If they gave more choices of mages, that would great. I can understand why they didn't unload a bunch of characters like in BG2, because of all the voice-overs, but I would have gladly skipped getting another warrior character to have a neutral mage.

Bioware did a good job giving the player a tank, an archer, a duel wielder, etc. But there at least 4 major types of mages with way more customization and we only have 2.

I think if I play again, I'm going to be a dps/cc mage asap. I'm just so far into the game now that I can't take Morrigan or she'll probably turn on me. Even sten is a problem somewhat, and I have to find the perfect dialog trees to not lose any or much report with him :/ I did the dwaren place last, so I am using sten for most of my playthrough. Man, I should have went to the dwarven place first... but how was I to know which locations would and wouldn't give me characters? I wasn't reading spoilers :/

[Unbroken Lineage]

Oh, wait. Is the complaint that there are only two NPC mages to choose from? That's quite a bit different than what I thought the complaint was about.

[egervari]

Unbroken Lineage wrote...

No one forces you to play with mages. Play on easy and take it easy.  Or you can bump up the difficulty if you build the rest of your team accordingly, accounting for the various needs: damage mitigation, damage output, crowd control, targetted de-buffing, healing and so on.  It's much easier with one or two mages, but you have all of the tools in the warrior and rogue lines.  Go to town.

In what other party-based fantasy RPG have you ever opted-out of taking magic users? In what other party-based fantasy RPG is taking all melee a viable option?

Some people object to playing on a lower difficulty. I have never changed it myself, and I won't. I want to play the game straight and not cheat in any way, even if the game is cheating. 

And I didn't opt out of taking a mage - I selected wynn, which is primarily healing magic and she has 3 useless earth magics, thus limiting her skill selections. Tack on making an error here and an error there because you don't know what is good and what you'll need down the line - and presto, you got a weak mage and 3 melee characters.

People say earthquake is a good CC ability. It's crap. Try using it against mages, or drakes, or any enemies that actually cause some real trouble against your party and you'll see it does NOTHING. It's all crap. Yet when I got her, I was forced to get all those abilities, which was around level 10.

Even if Wynn was developed better, I'd still have much of the same problems as she just doesn't have the skill points to make up for not having a second mage.

The reason this is a problem is that you need 2 mages, not 1. In order for the game to be workable, you have to have 2+ mages. Lots of people claim you can have 3 or 4 mages and win easily. There is a game balance problem. It can't really be ignored or refuted against.

Even if mages are excepted as being unbalanced, then the game should have given more options for players who picked a melee character.

[Brillobreaks]

There have clearly been too many bad habits from WoW/MMO's ingrained in people. Single player RPG's have always been 'unbalanced' in this same way. Magic users capable of killing people with a word or bringing the dead back to life with another are indeed more powerful than the local cutpurse or even the most heroic plate-clad warrior.



If the game had PvP, or was multiplayer, it would be a problem. But it doesn't.