666 réponses à ce sujet

[DragoonKain3]

Schyzm wrote...

lots of bosses disable multiple ppl, but you're right potions is often nice because it has the added bonus of taking up your useless auto attacker's time instead of your precious mage time.  and there's tons of OP stuff that are on the horizon, forcefield cone of cold was just the first wave.  trust me there's enough insane mage spells you're gna see crazy game breaking stuff coming out for a while.

Force Field and Cone of Cold, yet you can't name anything else OP? I'm sorry my friend, but the burden of proof is ON YOU to prove that other spells are OP'ed.

the third mage could drop a tempest onto them, another blizzard will further guarantee cc while layering on even more damage.  with mages, the more the merrier.

The first mage can cast Tempest right after blizzard. In fact, that's what my max magic mage does, since you need some time to make sure the enemy is frozen before dropping Tempest on them.

And between Blizzard and Earthquake, anything apart from that is superflous. There hasn't been a time in memory where a decently aimed Blizzard then a decently aimed Earthquake is enough to keep them within blizz long enough for them to freeze, so the third mage is just there really sitting pretty. I'd rather have a rogue for insane DPS in single target situations than a third deadweight mage.

[aberdash]

I find it interesting that F-C avoids a thread about a mage 1 shotting a boss but immediately claims that a thread about the highest dps melee class is definitive proof mages are not op.

[Schyzm]

DragoonKain3 wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

lots of bosses disable multiple ppl, but you're right potions is often nice because it has the added bonus of taking up your useless auto attacker's time instead of your precious mage time.  and there's tons of OP stuff that are on the horizon, forcefield cone of cold was just the first wave.  trust me there's enough insane mage spells you're gna see crazy game breaking stuff coming out for a while.

Force Field and Cone of Cold, yet you can't name anything else OP? I'm sorry my friend, but the burden of proof is ON YOU to prove that other spells are OP'ed.

the third mage could drop a tempest onto them, another blizzard will further guarantee cc while layering on even more damage.  with mages, the more the merrier.

The first mage can cast Tempest right after blizzard. In fact, that's what my max magic mage does, since you need some time to make sure the enemy is frozen before dropping Tempest on them.

And between Blizzard and Earthquake, anything apart from that is superflous. There hasn't been a time in memory where a decently aimed Blizzard then a decently aimed Earthquake is enough to keep them within blizz long enough for them to freeze, so the third mage is just there really sitting pretty. I'd rather have a rogue for insane DPS in single target situations than a third deadweight mage.

fireball, blizzard, storm of the century, death hex, sleep, horror, mass paralyize, glyph of repulsion, revival, lifeward, glyph of paralyize, petrify, waking nightmare.  and that's just off the top of my head.

and how is a third aoe spell superfluous, it does just as much insane damage as the first blizzard.  earthquake ain't so hot, why not just throw some death clouds up if you think you only need 1 blizzard?  you want some silly rogue to walk into your blizzard get frozen and maybe die?  sounds like a pretty bad idea to me.

[LGWu]

F-C wrote...

It just means you have some no lifers who are revolving their life around pounding on an issue.
i also have never been against improving rogues or warriors, quite the opposite i have always supported people wanting to make them better.

however nerfing mages will not reach that goal. thats why i call them bitter little mage haters. if you want the other classes to be better, attacking mages does nothing to accomplish that goal.

crusade for them to be better classes, i will not oppose it in any way, i will support it.

FC

By my own admission i am one of your 'no lifers'
A retird bloke with lots of time and cash who does not like gardening,,
And has played D&D based games for 3 decades [gimme the hoe of destruction baby]

In the game enemy mages are no problem. I kill them fast. with steel.
Playing as a mage is something i have never done.. in 3 decades.
Crom is my god
Mages exist to be targets
feared targets yes..thats why they die so quick
My gimli avatar scoots across screen and flurries/final blow them... doh.. no more mage
[haste is a cool buff in concert with Mor's stone chucking]

But as i said i've never Player Char'd a mage.
I wear armor.. not a skirt

[Schyzm]

aberdash wrote...

I find it interesting that F-C avoids a thread about a mage 1 shotting a boss but immediately claims that a thread about the highest dps melee class is definitive proof mages are not op.

that rogue would have zero-shotted that boss.

[DragoonKain3]

Schyzm wrote...

yes if you want to, for no good reason at all pickup every utility spell in the game, even the bad ones and purposefully avoid the better spells for no apparent reason then you have a "support mage."  but you've made your mage intentionally bad for no good reason.  there is no restriction that says after you've got spirit healing you need to go get other crappy support spells.  maybe you want to "roleplay" a cleric or something, but you can't bring that kind of intentional bad play into a balance discussion.

Bad ones? Like what exactly? If you can't name them and place suggestions, then that takes a whole lot out of your arguement. Being vague does not lead to a meaningful discussion you know.

How about you show me how you would build 2 mages in a party, assuming they reach lvl 22? I can bet dollars to donuts that apart from Cone of Cold and Force Field (and heal, but I already mentioned thats a wasted talent if you already have a dedicated healer), they will NOT have the same worthy spells. As such, it would not matter if you have 1 dedicated cleric and 1 dedicated wizard, or something in between (0.5wizard/0.5cleric for both, as an example).

[F-C]

aberdash wrote...

I find it interesting that F-C avoids a thread about a mage 1 shotting a boss but immediately claims that a thread about the highest dps melee class is definitive proof mages are not op.

i just dont see the point in arguing about a spell that is so situationally useful when other people already made the points about it.

its a 4th tier spell and its one of the more situationally useless spells in the game.

sure its powerful when you can use it, but most the time its just going to sit there collecting dust.

[DragoonKain3]

aberdash wrote...

I find it interesting that F-C avoids a thread about a mage 1 shotting a boss but immediately claims that a thread about the highest dps melee class is definitive proof mages are not op.

And I said in such a thread, having to waste 4  points in that 1 spell to oneshot maybe 5 reds in the entirety of the game is such a waste of talent points.

[Baki667]

egervari wrote...

I

- melee abilities cost too much stamina. Mages can pot all they want, and they get more stamina/mana. When battles are long (and the hard ones are), it makes any melee character more and more worthless. I think the over-reliance on pots is kind of bad as it is. With so few mages to take into your party in the game, it encourages playing one as the main character. Warriors are the least favoured class to start out with because you have a lot to choose from, and they aren't needed.

the real problem atm is that stamina is useless. lategame you will lower your dps by using active abilities. better stick with all the passives and susstained abilities.

[aberdash]

DragoonKain3 wrote...

And I said in such a thread, having to waste 4  points in that 1 spell to oneshot maybe 5 reds in the entirety of the game is such a waste of talent points.

Those spells are far from useless against enemy mages or other casters.

[Schyzm]

DragoonKain3 wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

yes if you want to, for no good reason at all pickup every utility spell in the game, even the bad ones and purposefully avoid the better spells for no apparent reason then you have a "support mage."  but you've made your mage intentionally bad for no good reason.  there is no restriction that says after you've got spirit healing you need to go get other crappy support spells.  maybe you want to "roleplay" a cleric or something, but you can't bring that kind of intentional bad play into a balance discussion.

Bad ones? Like what exactly? If you can't name them and place suggestions, then that takes a whole lot out of your arguement. Being vague does not lead to a meaningful discussion you know.

How about you show me how you would build 2 mages in a party, assuming they reach lvl 22? I can bet dollars to donuts that apart from Cone of Cold and Force Field (and heal, but I already mentioned thats a wasted talent if you already have a dedicated healer), they will NOT have the same worthy spells. As such, it would not matter if you have 1 dedicated cleric and 1 dedicated wizard, or something in between (0.5wizard/0.5cleric for both, as an example).

well as the game hands you premade mages in general waltzes down the lines given is usually efficient.  at any rate you still have no even remotely addressed the point.  mages are not GIMPED AT ALL by taking good spells that perform different "roles" your cone of cold is not ".5" as good because you have heal spells or mass paralyze.  neither is your blizzard.  your sleep spell does not last ".5" as long if you get fireball.  

[Pocketgb]

Baki667 wrote...

the real problem atm is that stamina is useless. lategame you will lower your dps by using active abilities. better stick with all the passives and susstained abilities.

It's still pretty fun on occassion to use Riposte on a frozen baddie : ) There's something interesting in having an unorthodox shatter-on-demand.

[F-C]

its the same few trolls as the other forum. no matter what you say or explain it doesnt matter, they just want to see mages nerfed and thats all, nothing will ever satisfy them.

im sure after this much time though the developers being the intelligent people they are know quite well its just a vocal minority of trolls who are on a bitter rampage of mage hatred.

which is why Dom was picking on aberdash on the old forums when he told us that mages arnt going to be rebalanced.

what was it he told you aberdash? "mages are powerful just to hurt your feelings" or something along those lines?

you guys have definately made an impression with the developers alright

Modifié par F-C, 18 novembre 2009 - 06:06 .

[DragoonKain3]

Schyzm wrote...

fireball, blizzard, storm of the century, death hex, sleep, horror, mass paralyize, glyph of repulsion, revival, lifeward, glyph of paralyize, petrify, waking nightmare.  and that's just off the top of my head.

and how is a third aoe spell superfluous, it does just as much insane damage as the first blizzard.  earthquake ain't so hot, why not just throw some death clouds up if you think you only need 1 blizzard?  you want some silly rogue to walk into your blizzard get frozen and maybe die?  sounds like a pretty bad idea to me.

LOL, those spells aren't OP'ed at all. Are you seriously arguing those are OP'ed? Because not one person here have ever mentioned any of the above to be OP. Unless you care to tell me how they're OP in the way how multiple Cone of Cold/Force Field currently can make even red enemies TOTALLY harmless by stacking them? I'm seriously thinking you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

And third mage is superfluous because the entire point of Earthquake is to make sure they stay within Blizzard's AoE so that they get rooted. You need some time to get confirmation for freeze, so there's no need for a third mage to cast tempest when the first or second mage can do it immediately after the freeze confirmation.

[Schyzm]

F-C wrote...

its the same few trolls as the other forum. no matter what you say or explain it doesnt matter, they just want to see mages nerfed and thats all, nothing will ever satisfy them.

im sure after this much time though the developers being the intelligent people they are know quite well its just a vocal minority of trolls who are on a bitter rampage of mage hatred.

which is why Dom was picking on aberdash on the old forums when he told us that mages arnt going to be rebalanced.

what was it he told you aberdash? "mages are powerful just to hurt your feelings" or something along those lines?

you guys have definately made an impression with the developers alright

actually I just want to see the game balanced.  warrior/rogue buffing would be aweome, as I've stated numerous times not only how bad their abilities are but how uncreative and mundane they are.

this, if any were needed is just further proof you're a complete liar and nothing but a hyper-aggressive troll.  I eagerly await your apology for being a filthy liar.

[aberdash]

F-C wrote...

what was it he told you aberdash? "mages are powerful just to hurt your feelings" or something along those lines?

I only remember some smartass comment about them hating every class but mages. And he never did answer my question as to why they made warriors and rogues so much weaker than mages. Or why interrupted talents cost stamina but interrupted spells cost no mana. :/

Modifié par aberdash, 18 novembre 2009 - 06:10 .

[Pocketgb]

F-C wrote...

im sure after this much time though the developers being the intelligent people they are know quite well its just a vocal minority of trolls who are on a bitter rampage of mage hatred.

Am I still being dragged into that crowd?

[surrealitycheck]

But the thing is, Rogues have UNDOUBTEDLY the highest single dps in the
game. They have awesome utility through lockpicking as well.

They do this dps via... AUTOATTACK. That's what is so ridiculous about it. They have fewer moves, and the moves they do have are actively useless. They need complexity added.

It is also worth pointing out that although they do respectable single target dps, mages cycling death hexes will do more faster (and I have yet to meet the mob that can take more than 3 1k+ hits).


And I said in such a thread, having to waste 4  points in that 1
spell to oneshot maybe 5 reds in the entirety of the game is such a
waste of talent points.

Spell might is hardly a waste, considering it's a pre-req for storm of the century (which is truly ridiculous), and very handy when going spellpower crazy (as I like to do).


LOL, those spells aren't OP'ed at all. Are you seriously arguing
those are OP'ed? Because not one person here have ever mentioned any of
the above to be OP. Unless you care to tell me how they're OP in the
way how multiple Cone of Cold/Force Field currently can make even red
enemies TOTALLY harmless by stacking them? I'm seriously thinking
you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

I'll be honest.

Blood wound feels far too strong. Instant cast massive paralysis. Paralysis explosion often feels equally absurd, as it hits many of the orange mobs in the game. Storm of the century is amusing, but on nightmare can be a bit of a liability. Entropic death feels like it does too much damage to me.

Those are my picks for "needs tweaking".

Modifié par surrealitycheck, 18 novembre 2009 - 06:13 .

[F-C]

Schyzm wrote...

actually I just want to see the game balanced.  warrior/rogue buffing would be aweome, as I've stated numerous times not only how bad their abilities are but how uncreative and mundane they are.

this, if any were needed is just further proof you're a complete liar and nothing but a hyper-aggressive troll.  I eagerly await your apology for being a filthy liar.

your constant bashing on bioware, calling them a fail of a company who made an abortion of a game completly contradicts your statements here.

im sure the developers really care what you think. i mean you are such a classy guy.

[Schyzm]

DragoonKain3 wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

fireball, blizzard, storm of the century, death hex, sleep, horror, mass paralyize, glyph of repulsion, revival, lifeward, glyph of paralyize, petrify, waking nightmare.  and that's just off the top of my head.

and how is a third aoe spell superfluous, it does just as much insane damage as the first blizzard.  earthquake ain't so hot, why not just throw some death clouds up if you think you only need 1 blizzard?  you want some silly rogue to walk into your blizzard get frozen and maybe die?  sounds like a pretty bad idea to me.

LOL, those spells aren't OP'ed at all. Are you seriously arguing those are OP'ed? Because not one person here have ever mentioned any of the above to be OP. Unless you care to tell me how they're OP in the way how multiple Cone of Cold/Force Field currently can make even red enemies TOTALLY harmless by stacking them? I'm seriously thinking you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

And third mage is superfluous because the entire point of Earthquake is to make sure they stay within Blizzard's AoE so that they get rooted. You need some time to get confirmation for freeze, so there's no need for a third mage to cast tempest when the first or second mage can do it immediately after the freeze confirmation.

cone of cold and forcefield are probably a littler better than those spells.  realize the game is new, and I'm not a power gamer.  I did hear someone mention that death hex and death cloud stack, though I haven't used them.

but yes all those spells are massively massively better than anything a rogue or warrior could ever hope to get.  you should try sleep, its pretty hawt.  

3 mages aoeing worked amazing wonders for me.  I don't know why you seem to have a hardon against 3 aoe spells.  but let me put your mind at ease, its frickin awesome.

[Schyzm]

F-C wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

actually I just want to see the game balanced.  warrior/rogue buffing would be aweome, as I've stated numerous times not only how bad their abilities are but how uncreative and mundane they are.

this, if any were needed is just further proof you're a complete liar and nothing but a hyper-aggressive troll.  I eagerly await your apology for being a filthy liar.

your constant bashing on bioware, calling them a fail of a company who made an abortion of a game completly contradicts your statements here.

im sure the developers really care what you think. i mean you are such a classy guy.

again I never said any such thing, I said the comabt mechanics are an abortion.  a lot of other things bioware did they did well.  again, your a total and complete liar.  you're like one of those test cases in lying, why do people who get caught lying constantly always continue lying?

I guess I eagerly await your apology on two things now.  or are we just going to get more grotesque lies from the resident super troll?

[DragoonKain3]

aberdash wrote...

DragoonKain3 wrote...

And I said in such a thread, having to waste 4  points in that 1 spell to oneshot maybe 5 reds in the entirety of the game is such a waste of talent points.

Those spells are far from useless against enemy mages or other casters.

And tell me, how many 'red' casters are there in the game? Apart from Circle Tower, I can't name one off hand. It's insanely powerful against that boss... useless for the rest of the game, apart from MAYBE a couple or so bosses I might have forgotten. As I have said in the other thread, its like a 3.x DnD cleric getting  a feat that has his turn undead to insta-death to undead enemies with no save, but you can only get it in a setting where there aren't a lot of undead, and you have to waste 3 other feats to get it. Situationally powerful, but the number of situations is actually useful is not worth the amount of sacrifices you have to get it.

As for trash casters, they fall almost as easily with Crushing Prison or any other spell you can name. Not nearly as effecient, but I can still burst down enemy mages pretty quick with other spells, and these spells you can use on non-casters as well.

[aberdash]

You need spell might for storm of the century anyways. 1 more point isn't going to hurt.

Besides mana clash cost less mana and it frees up crushing prison for another target.

Modifié par aberdash, 18 novembre 2009 - 06:24 .

[F-C]

Schyzm wrote...

again I never said any such thing

you are in complete denial about your own actions.

thats too funny.

[Schyzm]

F-C wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

again I never said any such thing

you are in complete denial about your own actions.

thats too funny.

hi mr. troll.  after being caught about being a liar twice you have decided to:

completely deny it.

congratulations.