666 réponses à ce sujet

[Skemte]

Sirronald555 wrote...

Skemte wrote...

Clearly there are some problems with the mages.... One clear problem is the fact they have much more versatility in development.. Unlike warriors or rogues which have to be pigeon holed into a weapon spec tree to be effective, the mages can mix and match any tree they please with out any draw backs.. Furthermore the spellcaster npc's in this game are entirely too few for having some of the most important roles of CC and healing.. Starting a mage garentees that you may not neccesarly need another mage in the group what so ever, but for rogue or warrior you pretty much have to for having a manageable team.. Last but not least is the ridiculous amount of lyrium potions you can make or find.. I can forgive the power of some mages, but the fact they arn't forced into a spell tree seems like a major foresight..

LOL WHO CARES, SERIOUSLY!!??  this is a single player game. There is NO PvP whrre you are gonna have to play against this "OP" mage. Just take one along to help make the game more magageable for you and move on.  Who cares if you have unlimited potions, apparently according to many posts having so many potions  doesn't make up for lack of skill because the game is still...just...sooo... hard.  I love this game. I love the balance of the game when i run a balanced group of 4.

And honestly, why am I getting worked up over these forums, lol. this is a single player game and it isn't like i EVER have to play with any of the jokers (and I don't mean everyone, just the whiners) who post this crap.  I'm off to enjoy another few hours of gametime with my perfectly balanced Sword and Board, rogue, mage and healer.

  Did I say the mage neccesarly was overpowered? Of course not.. But that still doesn't mean that the mage has much more meaingful choices, as well as group options..  If you play a mage you can literally go through quite a few different groups..  Warrior or rogue, you are limited to have one or both teh mages in your group always for managable fights, I am not saying the game is hard.. I am just pointing out the mage has the advantage in this game.. In variety choices, and not being forced to use the same party members for a balanced group.

[Haexpane]

Unfortunately, from DIablo years back to DAO, no developer has every found a way to get rid of the silly "CHUG POTS" techniques that seem to trump all others.



Why have the healer heal when you can chug pots for better HPs? It's not DAO specific, The list of "POT CHUGGING" games is miles long.



No innovation on this problem in sight. THe other problem of "some encounters are cheap" is more iffy. Depending on your party and gear, what is "cheap" to you might be "too easy " to someone else.

[Sirronald555]

Skellimancer wrote...

The people spouting "lol no pvp why care?" are the ones who play the mmo's.

I do NOT play MMO's and i do care that mages are insanely overpowered.

Well then apparently you NEED to play MMOs since they are balanced for you. This is a single player game, it doesn't matter if one toon is better than the other because you can choose to bring them or not. You don't NEED a mage. They make life easier, but in a fantasy setting when would a wizard not be the most frightening foe to meet. I know I'd rather go toe to toe with a warrior or archer before trying to take down a wizard anyday. I am glad they made them strong, it is fitting of their role.

Yes, I play many MMO's. I have also been playing RPG's for bout 25 years. back in the text only days like the lil program "Rogue" if ya remember it. MuD's, any and all single player games. Played them all. I am a disgustingly addicted gamer that has a huge affinity for RPG's. i am not the "best", I am not the " God of gaming", but I know a HELL of a lot and this game is dam good. If they decide to add multiplayer to it then and ONLY then would balancing be an issue.

[TileToad]

Sirronald555 wrote...

Sigh, ****g WoW has destroyed the minds of gamers. Seriously. If it isn't catered to casuals then everyone says it is either too hard or unblanced. There is no such thing as a balance issue in a single player game. Period.

Every single rpg since the dawn of time has been centered around a specific make-up. Tank, thief, mage and heals. If you choose to play the game with a different makeup then YOU are the one unblancing it NOT the games makers. if you play through this game with a tank, rogue wizard and healer then you will see how perfectly balanced it is (especially in the sense of the characters actually playing "roles" kinda like what the abbreviation RPG means...imagine that). Of course you also should taker the time to think out where you allocate your points at lvling up (aww shucks, no cookie cutter specs that you can copy off a WoW board).

Instead of whining, play the game and enjoy it. Best dam RPG that has come around in a long time and all the spoiled kiddies gotta whine cause they can't blast through it rolling their faces on the keyboard with any old motley assortment of characters.


Suppose I will edit this before someone trolls my "every rpg since the dawn of time" remark. Sure there are some that don't use the cookie cutter group makeup, but MANY MANY do and it has always been the perfect setup.

I've never played WoW, or any other MMORPG for that matter but did play a crapload of RPG's, strategy and management games and I'm telling you this game is not balanced correctly.
I also don't understand your reasoning that single player games don't need any balancing. The game mechanics set up the rules and the rules in turn determine your influence within the game. Therefore, balancing these rules is crucial for interesting gameplay.

I'm also perplexed by your statement that you can't be flexible with party members since it will unbalance the game. Apparently we're all forced to take the exact setup you stated. Perhaps they shouldn't have put in more NPC's to play with as it might confuse people into thinking that there are more options.

Your idea of how a RPG game should be sounds rigid, frustratingly difficult, and not very fun at all. Perhaps you're the one with the WoW mindset here where leveling up your character (allocating your points) is all that really matters.

[Roynalf]

I play with archer,tank,melee rogue and dps mage. No wipes at all on normla difficult yet (level 13 PC)

[Schyzm]

Lynnith24 wrote...

My 2 cents:

Mages start out very strong and are by far the top players through the first 2/3 of the game, however when you get up to level 15 everything changes. In my opion magic is a useless stat except for the needed number for abilites, my spells do the same amount of damge with 22 magic as they do with 54 magic and talanted improved SP. hence why warriors and rogues shine in the later game with equipment and talants and stats they scale ALOT better later game. Example lighting bolt which is a stable of mine (due to quick recharge time and range) with equipment that gives plus 45 percent damage at level 17 with 56 magic does about 54-56 damage. Shale in scrapper mode with just regular attacks does 45 - 46 per regular hit with flawless fire cyster (bost melee and armor). Now up to level 10 this was reversed lighting bolt did about 45-50 to level 12, although melee was only doing about 12 - 20 per hit. An example would be Alister who couldn't damgae to save his life, but later on with gear for sword improvements and running an ice weapon buff does about 42 white damge with 12-18 extra elemental. so if you can suffer through two halfs of the game with melee they really shine in the end. I did play a mage at first becuase they were tops but now i am really looking forward to rogue with all my prsige classes open.

To the issue of stamina/mana yes it is bad in the first half but once you getting into the ending warrior talants that reclains it when you kill things it is not an issue when you jumped by so many mobs. Also running a bard rogue with just one talant in the first song makes a huge differance later on and is by far a great skill for just one tallant and assins final alant basicaly gives you unlimitted stamina. Again though i think you will find when you get into the later part of the game the classes really change. Really all i cast with my mage is sleep for CC nightmare to take out spell casters then go lighting bold frost spell cone of lighting and repeat with 34 WP and gear for mana/5 i never run out. Warriors also have good gear later on for stamina/5 in combat which makes a HUGE differance.

if the mage ever isn't the most powerful character by an extraordinarily large margin you're simply doing it wrong.

[Sirronald555]

It is not HOW a game should be played, it is simply the tried and proven methed for many years. if you play through with the ccokie cutter setup the game is perfectly balanced (and yes that is how it should be) If you take a different group with you it may change the balance, but is not impossible. Honestly, why shouldn't they make a game where the ideal group is similar to probably about 80-90% of all rpg's ever made? I know I have a blast playing with that group, I also have a second group that runs without a nuking/CC mage and they do just fine. Some fights are tougher when I have 15 ranged blasting me, but it can be done.

If you choose to take all melee then you should have a tough time getting through without AoE and group CC, if you choose to take all mages, have fun getting your squishy butt smeared since you have no taunting tank. Have fun trying to chug pots when you could have brought a healer who can cast group heals and buff the crap out of you. All I am saying is if you take a balanced group through the game then the game is balanced. The one who unbalances the game is the one who chooses to unbalance it.

Modifié par Sirronald555, 16 novembre 2009 - 05:40 .

[Schyzm]

TileToad wrote...

Sirronald555 wrote...

Sigh, ****g WoW has destroyed the minds of gamers. Seriously. If it isn't catered to casuals then everyone says it is either too hard or unblanced. There is no such thing as a balance issue in a single player game. Period.

Every single rpg since the dawn of time has been centered around a specific make-up. Tank, thief, mage and heals. If you choose to play the game with a different makeup then YOU are the one unblancing it NOT the games makers. if you play through this game with a tank, rogue wizard and healer then you will see how perfectly balanced it is (especially in the sense of the characters actually playing "roles" kinda like what the abbreviation RPG means...imagine that). Of course you also should taker the time to think out where you allocate your points at lvling up (aww shucks, no cookie cutter specs that you can copy off a WoW board).

Instead of whining, play the game and enjoy it. Best dam RPG that has come around in a long time and all the spoiled kiddies gotta whine cause they can't blast through it rolling their faces on the keyboard with any old motley assortment of characters.


Suppose I will edit this before someone trolls my "every rpg since the dawn of time" remark. Sure there are some that don't use the cookie cutter group makeup, but MANY MANY do and it has always been the perfect setup.

I've never played WoW, or any other MMORPG for that matter but did play a crapload of RPG's, strategy and management games and I'm telling you this game is not balanced correctly.
I also don't understand your reasoning that single player games don't need any balancing. The game mechanics set up the rules and the rules in turn determine your influence within the game. Therefore, balancing these rules is crucial for interesting gameplay.

I'm also perplexed by your statement that you can't be flexible with party members since it will unbalance the game. Apparently we're all forced to take the exact setup you stated. Perhaps they shouldn't have put in more NPC's to play with as it might confuse people into thinking that there are more options.

Your idea of how a RPG game should be sounds rigid, frustratingly difficult, and not very fun at all. Perhaps you're the one with the WoW mindset here where leveling up your character (allocating your points) is all that really matters.

so true, single player rpg's need balanced combat mechanics too.  You can't just throw in whatever, have classes be vastly superior to others and think that is acceptable.

[Unbroken Lineage]

Melee Fighter, Ranged Fighter, Damage Mage, Heal Mage. In what party-based fantasy RPG is this not the "default" party upon which the game is balanced? In what party-based fantasy RPG would you deviate from this default party, and not expect to have to compensate for your party's lack of balance with clever tactics, skillful item usage and applying some forethought to character builds?

No one is stopping you from playing on easy if you want to bring party members based on their conversation or looks or whatever.

Modifié par Unbroken Lineage, 16 novembre 2009 - 05:45 .

[Haexpane]

TileToad wrote...

Sirronald555 wrote...

Sigh, ****g WoW has destroyed the minds of gamers. Seriously. If it isn't catered to casuals then everyone says it is either too hard or unblanced. There is no such thing as a balance issue in a single player game. Period.

Every single rpg since the dawn of time has been centered around a specific make-up. Tank, thief, mage and heals. If you choose to play the game with a different makeup then YOU are the one unblancing it NOT the games makers. if you play through this game with a tank, rogue wizard and healer then you will see how perfectly balanced it is (especially in the sense of the characters actually playing "roles" kinda like what the abbreviation RPG means...imagine that). Of course you also should taker the time to think out where you allocate your points at lvling up (aww shucks, no cookie cutter specs that you can copy off a WoW board).

Instead of whining, play the game and enjoy it. Best dam RPG that has come around in a long time and all the spoiled kiddies gotta whine cause they can't blast through it rolling their faces on the keyboard with any old motley assortment of characters.


Suppose I will edit this before someone trolls my "every rpg since the dawn of time" remark. Sure there are some that don't use the cookie cutter group makeup, but MANY MANY do and it has always been the perfect setup.

I've never played WoW, or any other MMORPG for that matter but did play a crapload of RPG's, strategy and management games and I'm telling you this game is not balanced correctly.
I also don't understand your reasoning that single player games don't need any balancing. The game mechanics set up the rules and the rules in turn determine your influence within the game. Therefore, balancing these rules is crucial for interesting gameplay.

I'm also perplexed by your statement that you can't be flexible with party members since it will unbalance the game. Apparently we're all forced to take the exact setup you stated. Perhaps they shouldn't have put in more NPC's to play with as it might confuse people into thinking that there are more options.

Your idea of how a RPG game should be sounds rigid, frustratingly difficult, and not very fun at all. Perhaps you're the one with the WoW mindset here where leveling up your character (allocating your points) is all that really matters.

Why even bother replying to him?  The ditto heads who say "stop whining" are pointless, why do they even bother on a message board?   Oh I know why, they are just here to brag about how uber they are.

Mages are indeed over powered, however it is intentional.   Magic is almost always overpowered in RPGs.  Demon's SOuls you can 1 hit kill things w/ magic.

Sacred 2, w/ a dual wield staff INT/magic Dryad you could 1 hit kill bosses.

Everquest PC back in the old days Druids/mages/ etc.. could single kill/kite bosses that were designed for 12 people.

Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance 2 - Necro + pet was more powerful than any other class, you could play the whole game and never die if you had the right build

Baldur's Gate 2 pc- HELLO MIND FLAYERS PWNING EVERYONE

It's an old problem that will never be "fixed" because in order to make magic fun, it has to be super powerful.  If you make Melee/Tanks as powerful as mages, you no longer need a mage at all, and the game would be way too easy.

[Schyzm]

Unbroken Lineage wrote...

Melee Fighter, Ranged Fighter, Damage Mage, Heal Mage. In what party-based fantasy RPG is this not the "default" party upon which the game is balanced? In what party-based fantasy RPG would you deviate from this default party, and not expect to have to compensate for your party's lack of balance with clever tactics, skillful item usage and applying some forethought to character builds?

No one is stopping you from playing on easy if you want to bring party members based on their conversation or looks or whatever.

in games with 5 man parties?  funny how your party composition means you can't have a second melee.......ever.  

anyway I doubt bioware aimed so low as to only think of a single party composition.  and frankly the party composition you name has 2 mages and 2 mages are most certainly not balanced.  the only party better than 2 mages is 3 mages.  

[Schyzm]

Haexpane wrote...

TileToad wrote...

Sirronald555 wrote...

Sigh, ****g WoW has destroyed the minds of gamers. Seriously. If it isn't catered to casuals then everyone says it is either too hard or unblanced. There is no such thing as a balance issue in a single player game. Period.

Every single rpg since the dawn of time has been centered around a specific make-up. Tank, thief, mage and heals. If you choose to play the game with a different makeup then YOU are the one unblancing it NOT the games makers. if you play through this game with a tank, rogue wizard and healer then you will see how perfectly balanced it is (especially in the sense of the characters actually playing "roles" kinda like what the abbreviation RPG means...imagine that). Of course you also should taker the time to think out where you allocate your points at lvling up (aww shucks, no cookie cutter specs that you can copy off a WoW board).

Instead of whining, play the game and enjoy it. Best dam RPG that has come around in a long time and all the spoiled kiddies gotta whine cause they can't blast through it rolling their faces on the keyboard with any old motley assortment of characters.


Suppose I will edit this before someone trolls my "every rpg since the dawn of time" remark. Sure there are some that don't use the cookie cutter group makeup, but MANY MANY do and it has always been the perfect setup.

I've never played WoW, or any other MMORPG for that matter but did play a crapload of RPG's, strategy and management games and I'm telling you this game is not balanced correctly.
I also don't understand your reasoning that single player games don't need any balancing. The game mechanics set up the rules and the rules in turn determine your influence within the game. Therefore, balancing these rules is crucial for interesting gameplay.

I'm also perplexed by your statement that you can't be flexible with party members since it will unbalance the game. Apparently we're all forced to take the exact setup you stated. Perhaps they shouldn't have put in more NPC's to play with as it might confuse people into thinking that there are more options.

Your idea of how a RPG game should be sounds rigid, frustratingly difficult, and not very fun at all. Perhaps you're the one with the WoW mindset here where leveling up your character (allocating your points) is all that really matters.

Why even bother replying to him?  The ditto heads who say "stop whining" are pointless, why do they even bother on a message board?   Oh I know why, they are just here to brag about how uber they are.

Mages are indeed over powered, however it is intentional.   Magic is almost always overpowered in RPGs.  Demon's SOuls you can 1 hit kill things w/ magic.

Sacred 2, w/ a dual wield staff INT/magic Dryad you could 1 hit kill bosses.

Everquest PC back in the old days Druids/mages/ etc.. could single kill/kite bosses that were designed for 12 people.

Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance 2 - Necro + pet was more powerful than any other class, you could play the whole game and never die if you had the right build

Baldur's Gate 2 pc- HELLO MIND FLAYERS PWNING EVERYONE

It's an old problem that will never be "fixed" because in order to make magic fun, it has to be super powerful.  If you make Melee/Tanks as powerful as mages, you no longer need a mage at all, and the game would be way too easy.

that's an old and busted way of thinking, lots of rpgs come out now where melee can do fun, interesting and powerful things.  there's no reason for dragon age to set rpgs back a decade by returning to the warriors=terrible, mages=gods mechanic.  people expect more out of their combat mechanics now than that.

[Haexpane]

Unbroken Lineage wrote...

Melee Fighter, Ranged Fighter, Damage Mage, Heal Mage. In what party-based fantasy RPG is this not the "default" party upon which the game is balanced?   .

Good ones?   The real "default" party is 6 not 4

In a true western style RPG you get 6 slots,  traditional is 1 tank, 1 healer 4 anything else you want.
4 person party started w/ Everquest ONline Adventures on the PS2, and RPGs have been copying it ever since.

[Unbroken Lineage]

I believe the two camps are: those who have played RPGs over the past 20+ years, and those who have played RPGs over the past 5 years. And they'll probably never get along since they have wildly different expectations of both themselves and the games they play.

When I deviate from a balanced party, I expect to be challenged, and plan accordingly. I suggest you do the same.

Modifié par Unbroken Lineage, 16 novembre 2009 - 05:58 .

[Magic Zarim]

I play a DPS mage as my PC char and take along Wynn as dedicated healer. My mage owns large groups at a time with ease when played right. When I can't get me and my party in proper positions before too much damage is done to the party, he gets his arse handed to him royally. "Balance" is fine.



Mages are all about Kill Fast or Be Killed Fast. Take the last encounter in the Deserted Home, with 3 bloodmages and 4 mercs. If you open the door and shout "Hey! Here I am!" you really expect to live? LOL you should die if you approach the encounter like that. Instead, just park your party a few hallways back, set them up in an ambush. Open the door with a character of preference from the side and not standing in front of the door and run back to your ambush. Ignore the melees and have your party gank the bloodmage(s) as they come in. Victory. Lewt.



Learn to Play is the right thing to say here.

[Schyzm]

Unbroken Lineage wrote...

I believe the two camps are: those who have played RPGs over the past 20+ years, and those who have played RPGs over the past 5 years. And they'll probably never get along since they have wildly different expectations of both themselves and the games they play.

When I deviate from a balanced party, I expect to be challenged, and plan accordingly. I suggest you do the same.

really? because the best party in dragon age by an enormous margin is 3 mages.  and that would technically be deviation from your mythical and untrue "standard" party.

[Lynnith24]

One of the main differances is Bioware advertised this game as you can do anything you want which you can. I play the game on insane difficulty and it is insane let me tell you but again those who think mages are overpowered i would only encourage you to play through the whole game. Things really do change in 12-16 and most of the other classes become stronger with access to higher talants gear that gives you stamina regain better weapons and slotted for runes. mages become less of a factor and yes fighting groups of mages is insanely difficult ( ie the quest to clean out the blood mages when there are pre positioned oil slicks for them to light and having to break through a barrier to get to them. i have to carrier around a couple sets of gear for differant fights Fire resist and mentnal and physical resist for certain fights. Again though i would just beat it and see how it is later on becuase with good gear rogues and warriors are better than mages if played well and shale is just unstopable.

[Schyzm]

Lynnith24 wrote...

One of the main differances is Bioware advertised this game as you can do anything you want which you can. I play the game on insane difficulty and it is insane let me tell you but again those who think mages are overpowered i would only encourage you to play through the whole game. Things really do change in 12-16 and most of the other classes become stronger with access to higher talants gear that gives you stamina regain better weapons and slotted for runes. mages become less of a factor and yes fighting groups of mages is insanely difficult ( ie the quest to clean out the blood mages when there are pre positioned oil slicks for them to light and having to break through a barrier to get to them. i have to carrier around a couple sets of gear for differant fights Fire resist and mentnal and physical resist for certain fights. Again though i would just beat it and see how it is later on becuase with good gear rogues and warriors are better than mages if played well and shale is just unstopable.

I've played the game through on nightmare ending with a party of 3 mages, and it could not have possibly been easier by substituting a crappy warrior or rogue in.  you're just wrong, sorry.  also fighting groups of mages ain't so rough when you got 3 mages of your own.  

[Guesswho69]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

DM Veil wrote...

I don't understand the need to balance a mage and a warrior with each other with a game that's about team tactics and not about competing with one another.

Fine. Can I take my 5 rogues/warriors with me to make up for our lack of awesome ? Oh wait I can't, we have to be four, no more. This is the reason why it should be balanced.

Um yea you can - 
Alistar shield walls - toss taunt, then runs out of Line of Sight.   With Shield Mastery and using shield wall/pummel/overpower/assult on coold down, and challening shout (the knockdown) he can stay nice and healthy for a long time.  On top of this have him throw out bombs and flasks.

The 3 rogues imediately go into stealth.  While everyone is going to kill Alistar.  Use the 3 rogues to focus fire down the biggest gun first, the mage, then the archers.  By the time the ranged/casters are down, alistar should be poping a healing poltice, and then single target down the melee. 

If you have time, throw out a bunch of traps, and see what happens.  The game isn't impossible without Mages.  It just requires using more cleaver concepts, like lures, traps, bombs, posions.

[SoulBlazer]

Seems this thread has a lot of crying about mages being too powerful.



1) Play on hard/nightmare

2) If you want to cry, then do so about the AI not being smarter about how it goes about killing/targeting mages and how it manages resources such as why dont enemies use poultices ? or switch to bows when they are being kited? or use a gang of attacks between multiple enemy allies to assist on the casters.



Save the AI, save the world.

[Haexpane]

Schyzm wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

TileToad wrote...

Sirronald555 wrote...

Sigh, ****g WoW has destroyed the minds of gamers. Seriously. If it isn't catered to casuals then everyone says it is either too hard or unblanced. There is no such thing as a balance issue in a single player game. Period.

Every single rpg since the dawn of time has been centered around a specific make-up. Tank, thief, mage and heals. If you choose to play the game with a different makeup then YOU are the one unblancing it NOT the games makers. if you play through this game with a tank, rogue wizard and healer then you will see how perfectly balanced it is (especially in the sense of the characters actually playing "roles" kinda like what the abbreviation RPG means...imagine that). Of course you also should taker the time to think out where you allocate your points at lvling up (aww shucks, no cookie cutter specs that you can copy off a WoW board).

Instead of whining, play the game and enjoy it. Best dam RPG that has come around in a long time and all the spoiled kiddies gotta whine cause they can't blast through it rolling their faces on the keyboard with any old motley assortment of characters.


Suppose I will edit this before someone trolls my "every rpg since the dawn of time" remark. Sure there are some that don't use the cookie cutter group makeup, but MANY MANY do and it has always been the perfect setup.

I've never played WoW, or any other MMORPG for that matter but did play a crapload of RPG's, strategy and management games and I'm telling you this game is not balanced correctly.
I also don't understand your reasoning that single player games don't need any balancing. The game mechanics set up the rules and the rules in turn determine your influence within the game. Therefore, balancing these rules is crucial for interesting gameplay.

I'm also perplexed by your statement that you can't be flexible with party members since it will unbalance the game. Apparently we're all forced to take the exact setup you stated. Perhaps they shouldn't have put in more NPC's to play with as it might confuse people into thinking that there are more options.

Your idea of how a RPG game should be sounds rigid, frustratingly difficult, and not very fun at all. Perhaps you're the one with the WoW mindset here where leveling up your character (allocating your points) is all that really matters.

Why even bother replying to him?  The ditto heads who say "stop whining" are pointless, why do they even bother on a message board?   Oh I know why, they are just here to brag about how uber they are.

Mages are indeed over powered, however it is intentional.   Magic is almost always overpowered in RPGs.  Demon's SOuls you can 1 hit kill things w/ magic.

Sacred 2, w/ a dual wield staff INT/magic Dryad you could 1 hit kill bosses.

Everquest PC back in the old days Druids/mages/ etc.. could single kill/kite bosses that were designed for 12 people.

Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance 2 - Necro + pet was more powerful than any other class, you could play the whole game and never die if you had the right build

Baldur's Gate 2 pc- HELLO MIND FLAYERS PWNING EVERYONE

It's an old problem that will never be "fixed" because in order to make magic fun, it has to be super powerful.  If you make Melee/Tanks as powerful as mages, you no longer need a mage at all, and the game would be way too easy.

that's an old and busted way of thinking, lots of rpgs come out now where melee can do fun, interesting and powerful things.  there's no reason for dragon age to set rpgs back a decade by returning to the warriors=terrible, mages=gods mechanic.  people expect more out of their combat mechanics now than that.

When did I say melee can't be fun?  Melee is usually more fun because it's harder, and you need good gear and tactics.

UBer powerful mages actually can get really boring.  IN EQOA on the PS2 people used to "LOL NAKED CASTER" stuff because they didn't even need gear they were so uber.

It's not really that "old " of a design in DAO.  In the real old design, warriors had NO MAGIC AT ALL.   And needed mages to make them more powerful.

In most RPGs thesed days warriors get magic, they just call it "abilities" now.  Another design taken straight out of EVERQUEST but everyone thinks WOW did it.

[Revik]

egervari wrote...

Garrand wrote...

egervari wrote...

Okay, you have 4 mages out on the battle field. Immediately, they start casting stun effects and cone of cold. This all happens after a cutscene.

What do you do? Go.

This never happens in the game (unless it's in TWK), so it does not matter what /would/ happen. This is not a multiplayer, competitive game - this is a scripted single player game, in which melee does very well compared to, say, NWN or BG.

Your argument was first and foremost that melee was trash - which just is not true. Would a melee character stand up to a mage 1v1? Of course not! And they are not supposed to, within this world. This is why you don't see the above mentioned quad mage enemy party that could ruin your day. I had *zero* problems throughout the entire game running with Rogue main, Alistar, Shale, Wynne.

The fact that the game does not punish what really is extreme cheese (chain-potion-chugging by mages) with either longer potion cooldowns or less abundant materials is a bigger issue than supposed melee inadequacy.

It does happen in the game - it's the brother's killer quest for the magi collective.

Actually theres a couple things you can do.  I don't remember this particular fight but I can tell you what I would do.  Assuming you can't get the jump on the mage group via stealth or positioning you could throw down a glyph of neutralization.  On either yourself or the mages if they are grouped.  Glyph of neutralization does 2 things.  It can either make you immune to magic within its zone or mana drain any mage within.  If you use it on yourself you become immune to any effects but you drain yourself of mana which as many have pointed out can be easily remedied with a pot.  If the mages are bunched together you can use the glyph on them effectively draining all their mana.

If want to opt out of using any mages I would recommend using shale and alistair.  Templars and shale can get very high magic resistance and to top it off you can sip a salve depending on the magic.  Once the initial burst/CC is done Alistair should be primarily untouched with shale taking little damage as well.  Alistair can use a cleanse and free everyone.  You have a couple options after this.  If you have an archer you can use an arrow of slaying on 1 mage.  Shale can use his hurl on the mages or CC melee but doing earth grasp.  Your dog or Sten could use their warshout to stun everyone around for a brief time.  A rogue could use bombs for damage or CC. 

I will not even go into a battle where you have the benefit of positioning with a rogue and some traps you pretty much have it made.

[Schyzm]

SoulBlazer wrote...

Seems this thread has a lot of crying about mages being too powerful.

1) Play on hard/nightmare
2) If you want to cry, then do so about the AI not being smarter about how it goes about killing/targeting mages and how it manages resources such as why dont enemies use poultices ? or switch to bows when they are being kited? or use a gang of attacks between multiple enemy allies to assist on the casters.

Save the AI, save the world.

I don't know if I've fought an enemy mage that ran out of mana, they just die so darn fast.  nightmare just makes mage even more important.  and the mage problems go way deeper than ai.  warrior and rogue abilities are just a joke compared to mage abilities.  considering how many cool abilities new rpgs give to warrior and rogue type classes dragon age is from like 15 years ago with its mundane abiltiies.  and to top it off stamina is unreplenishable whereas lyrium potions are infinite.  not enough I guess that you have all the best abilities, you gotta have the unlimited resource too.

[Schyzm]

[quote]Haexpane wrote...

[quote]Schyzm wrote...

It's an old problem that will never be "fixed" because in order to make magic fun, it has to be super powerful.  If you make Melee/Tanks as powerful as mages, you no longer need a mage at all, and the game would be way too easy.

[/quote]

that's an old and busted way of thinking, lots of rpgs come out now where melee can do fun, interesting and powerful things.  there's no reason for dragon age to set rpgs back a decade by returning to the warriors=terrible, mages=gods mechanic.  people expect more out of their combat mechanics now than that.
[/quote]

When did I say melee can't be fun?  Melee is usually more fun because it's harder, and you need good gear and tactics.

UBer powerful mages actually can get really boring.  IN EQOA on the PS2 people used to "LOL NAKED CASTER" stuff because they didn't even need gear they were so uber.

It's not really that "old " of a design in DAO.  In the real old design, warriors had NO MAGIC AT ALL.   And needed mages to make them more powerful.

In most RPGs thesed days warriors get magic, they just call it "abilities" now.  Another design taken straight out of EVERQUEST but everyone thinks WOW did it.

[/quote]

anything to make warriors interesting and have cool and fun abilities instead of the weakling borefests they are now.  "lol I hit someone with my shield, lol I hit someone 2 times w/ my shield, lol I hit someone 3 times w/ my shield.  oops out of abilities!"  it's not like mages add anything interesting to a warrior, they just make them hit a little harder, but because mages are so much better there's no point in that really either.

[Kelston]

Unbroken Lineage wrote...

Melee Fighter, Ranged Fighter, Damage Mage, Heal Mage. In what party-based fantasy RPG is this not the "default" party upon which the game is balanced? In what party-based fantasy RPG would you deviate from this default party, and not expect to have to compensate for your party's lack of balance with clever tactics, skillful item usage and applying some forethought to character builds?

No one is stopping you from playing on easy if you want to bring party members based on their conversation or looks or whatever.

Except a heal mage in DA:O is not prevented from loading up on the offensive capabilities of a damage mage. No cleric in D&D ever AoE'd a room down.

You keep using the red herring logical fallacy and dodging the main point, that's understandable since you only play mages. So not really sure what you're going on about with making the game challenging for you when you set yourself up to run a 3 mage party.