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[Ace Attorney]

Chunkor wrote...

T3hAnubis wrote...

Chunkor wrote...

For this type of Battle Mage build, would Arcane Wall be worth the point? +5% defense seems pretty negligible, IMO.

It has it...

I noticed. What I meant was couldn't that point be used for a more useful spell? Does 5% make that much of a difference?

It is 20%, not 5%

[godlike13]

Chunkor wrote...

T3hAnubis wrote...

Chunkor wrote...

For this type of Battle Mage build, would Arcane Wall be worth the point? +5% defense seems pretty negligible, IMO.

It has it...

I noticed. What I meant was couldn't that point be used for a more useful spell? Does 5% make that much of a difference?

That 5% only applies to ur party too. So IMO its not worth it. Ur party will probably be able to take care of themselves.

Modifié par godlike13, 08 mars 2011 - 12:29 .

[godlike13]

Morroian wrote...

T3hAnubis wrote...

Morroian wrote...

godlike13 wrote...

The only thing about Blood Mage is that convectional healing has no effect now, and not just a lesser effect. 

What do you mean conventional healing doesn't have any effect?

Blood Magic
Requires: Level 7
Requires: Blood Mage
While this mode is active, the mage can use blood magic, sacrificing health rather than mana to obtain a deeper pool of energy for casting spells. When Blood Magic is in use, however, the mage cannot be healed by conventional spells or potions.[/i][i]

Thanks, that detail had slipped past me, so it makes the healing abilities within BM mandatory.

They were already kind of mandatory anyway given the higher tier spells restrictions.

[Chunkor]

T3hAnubis wrote...

Chunkor wrote...

T3hAnubis wrote...

Chunkor wrote...

For this type of Battle Mage build, would Arcane Wall be worth the point? +5% defense seems pretty negligible, IMO.

It has it...

I noticed. What I meant was couldn't that point be used for a more useful spell? Does 5% make that much of a difference?

It is 20%, not 5%

"Arcane Shield's protection now envelops all party members. Party members only receive 5% protection," is what http://dragonage.wik...(Dragon_Age_II) says Arcane Wall does, so what I gather from this is that Arcane Wall's only effect is that it gives your allies a 5% increase in protection. Arcane Shield's +20% and Elemental Shield's +20% across all elemental attacks are definitely worth the points, though.

And I hope it doesn't seem like I'm calling your build out in any way. I'm actually basing my first mage on yours with a couple changes here and there.

[Dark Knight X]

the big question is.............if BM Hawke encounters an enemy Templar, will her BM spells be able to bypass all the anti-mage, silencing talents of the Templar?

[Ace Attorney]

Well this idea is dead, as all Mage Robes apparently need Magic and Will.  http://social.biowar...9674/38#6399449

[godlike13]

T3hAnubis wrote...

Well this idea is dead, as all Mage Robes apparently need Magic and Will.  http://social.biowar...9674/38#6399449

a 60-40 split should still be able to work effectively. Just use Rock Armor and Arcane Shield for sustainables, 30% isn't too bad a hit, and have someone in ur party use Rally or Heroic Aura.

Modifié par godlike13, 08 mars 2011 - 12:38 .

[ThorodinHawke]

T3hAnubis wrote...

ThorodinHawke wrote...

is there a battle mage build that lets u avoid blood magic??????

RVNX wrote...
I would love to make a melee-oriented Spirit Healer + Force Mage mage..........

The problem lies in your Sustained buffs. Arcane Shield + Heroic Aura + Rock Armor = half of your mana pool gone. Add Healing Aura...and you have little to cast with.

okay well can u give me the most important skills for a battlemage please. leavin out blood mage. If i can see what are the important skills i can be flexible with my own custom skills.

[Ace Attorney]

godlike13 wrote...

T3hAnubis wrote...

Well this idea is dead, as all Mage Robes apparently need Magic and Will.  http://social.biowar...9674/38#6399449

a 60-40 split should still be able to work effectively. Just use Rock Armor and Arcane Shield for sustainables, 30% isn't too bad a hit, and have someone in ur party use Rally or Heroic Aura.

The problem lies in now needing Will to use Robes. That means much less Con, thus less Blood power and more squishiness. Kills the concept.

ThorodinHawke wrote...

T3hAnubis wrote...

ThorodinHawke wrote...

is there a battle mage build that lets u avoid blood magic??????

RVNX wrote...
I would love to make a melee-oriented Spirit Healer + Force Mage mage..........

The problem lies in your Sustained buffs. Arcane Shield + Heroic Aura + Rock Armor = half of your mana pool gone. Add Healing Aura...and you have little to cast with.

okay well can u give me the most important skills for a battlemage please. leavin out blood mage. If i can see what are the important skills i can be flexible with my own custom skills.

Those 3 Sustainables plus Rally with Turn the Blade and other party buffs like others here have said. But given you are using Mana, bring Anders/etc. and have that mage use Heroic Aura with upgrades. But your health will stick suck.

Again, all of this is pure theory.

Modifié par T3hAnubis, 08 mars 2011 - 01:12 .

[Zhel_Ryn]

I wouldn't say the build is dead, but it definitely takes more of a 'spellsword' theme from DA:O AW guides than it does 'tank'. Level 25 stats would get you roughly 42Mag, 32Wil, and 33+Con; 215+ Health, 260 Mana. Stack health gear of course. Start each fight with the least number of sustainables you feel comfortable with (even just BM off would net you 130 mana to burn initially). Heavy Primal looks smexier of course to eek out as much resilience from Rock Armor.

My first run will still be a nightmare 2h tank, so you crazy dress-wearing fighter-lites will have time to strut your stuff before I make my own.

[Ace Attorney]

Zhel_Ryn wrote...

I wouldn't say the build is dead, but it definitely takes more of a 'spellsword' theme from DA:O AW guides than it does 'tank'. Level 25 stats would get you roughly 42Mag, 32Wil, and 33+Con; 215+ Health, 260 Mana. Stack health gear of course. Start each fight with the least number of sustainables you feel comfortable with (even just BM off would net you 130 mana to burn initially). Heavy Primal looks smexier of course to eek out as much resilience from Rock Armor.

My first run will still be a nightmare 2h tank, so you crazy dress-wearing fighter-lites will have time to strut your stuff before I make my own.

If you moved those Will points to Strength (waste perhaps), you can wear Warrior armor...hmm...

[Zhel_Ryn]

That's an option as well. Would be 30Str with above allocations, giving you higher base armor (more armor for Rock/Galv to multiply), as well as possibly higher health on said gear. You'll have base 160 mana (80 to start without BM up).

[Logikal1]

I aim to pull off something like this if my first playthrough allows it.

Can a mod move this to the character builds forum plz?

It'd be much easier for me to find come launch!

Thx

[Ace Attorney]

Logikal1 wrote...

I aim to pull off something like this if my first playthrough allows it.

Can a mod move this to the character builds forum plz?

It'd be much easier for me to find come launch!

Thx

Report button?

[Gamemako]

T3hAnubis wrote...

Zhel_Ryn wrote...

I wouldn't say the build is dead, but it definitely takes more of a 'spellsword' theme from DA:O AW guides than it does 'tank'. Level 25 stats would get you roughly 42Mag, 32Wil, and 33+Con; 215+ Health, 260 Mana. Stack health gear of course. Start each fight with the least number of sustainables you feel comfortable with (even just BM off would net you 130 mana to burn initially). Heavy Primal looks smexier of course to eek out as much resilience from Rock Armor.

My first run will still be a nightmare 2h tank, so you crazy dress-wearing fighter-lites will have time to strut your stuff before I make my own.

If you moved those Will points to Strength (waste perhaps), you can wear Warrior armor...hmm...

Precisely. Unlike a non-BM build, you have that option. If you were to attempt to go with rogue armor, you'd need DEX and CUN, both of which would be rather mediocre to have. So if you want a FM/SH, you're pretty well stuck with robes. I'm actually terribly interested in how this turns out; if there is some decent heavy armor to wear with a 31.25% bonus from Rock Armor, it may really be the next Arcane Warrior.

Oh well. I'm still waiting until reviews are in for DA2 before I make a purchase, no matter how hot and bothered I may get from theorycraft.

[Eclipse_9990]

 I had an idea like this a while ago.  see? 

Stats:
Mag:Max
Str:Enough to wear all armors.
Will:20
Con:30+10 from Vitality

Spells: 25
Spirit:2
Spirit Strike: 2

Elemental:4
Searing Fireball:2
Winter's Blast: 2

Primal: 4
Rock Armor
Chain Reaction: 2
Tempest

Arcane: 2
Mind Blast (Free)
Elemental Shield: 2

Blood Mage: +25 Health
Blood Magic: 7
Blood Lust: 2
One Foot In: 2 
Paralyzing Hemmorhage: 2
Sacrifice        
                                                                                                                                                                                    
Spirit Healer: +25 Mana   
Spirit Healer: 6                                                                                                                                                                               Healing Aura
Unity:2
Refusal:2
Vitality

The only thing is I dont know how much strength you need to wear all the armors. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 08 mars 2011 - 07:26 .

[Gamemako]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

 I had an idea like this a while ago.  see? 

Stats:
Mag:Max
Str:Enough to wear all armors.
Will:20
Con:30+10 from Vitality

Spells: 25
Spirit:2
Spirit Strike: 2

Elemental:4
Searing Fireball:2
Winter's Blast: 2

Primal: 4
Rock Armor
Chain Reaction: 2
Tempest

Arcane: 2
Mind Blast (Free)
Elemental Shield: 2

Blood Mage: +25 Health
Blood Magic: 7
Blood Lust: 2
One Foot In: 2 
Paralyzing Hemmorhage: 2
Sacrifice        
                                                                                                                                                                                    
Spirit Healer: +25 Mana   
Spirit Healer: 6                                                                                                                                                                               Healing Aura
Unity:2
Refusal:2
Vitality

The only thing is I dont know how much strength you need to wear all the armors. 

I'll admit, I completely missed the existence of Vitality. If that can be used to meet equipment requirements, you might be able to survive as a non-BM warrior-mage. You start with 10 stat points at level 1 with 3 in DEX+CUN. So assuming you can hit level 25 in a playthrough, you end up with 79 disposable stat points. That's enough for 32 STR / 22+10 CON / 42 MAG / 23 WIL. Of course, you may also fail utterly if you can't get there. Also of import, there may be bonus talents and attributes lying around that would allow you to reach the build's full potential at less than level 25. Let's see if I can modify my build for level 25 to fit everything:

Specializations:
Force Mage
Spirit Healer for the mana regen +25

Full Primal--10 points

Arcane--3 points
Mind Blast (Epic fail spell to start with)
Arcane Shield + Elemental Shield

Force Mage-4 points
Fist of the Maker + Maker's Hammer + Maker's Fury
Unshakable

Creation-3 points
Glyph of Paralysis
Heroic Aura + Valiant Aura

Spirit Healer-6 points
Healing Aura + Faith
Group Heal + Unity
Revival
Vitality

This is both a convenient and inconvenient build: if you use Merrill, you have no Creation tree and no healer, and this will fill the gap nicely. This build also gets the full bonus from Arcane Wall instead of the just 5% that you would get from a party member (again, Merrill can't fill in the gaps in Creation!). However, it's not really battle-ready until the last possible second, requiring TWO specs to actually work out. Talk about a rough path. If there are a lot of +attribute or +talent items/tomes/fade/archdemonblood, it may be a lot easier on the player... or if you can use equipment to meet other equipment's stat requirements. Have we determined this to be impossible yet? I abused the hell out of that in DA:O, equipping tier 7 Cailan's Boots on a rogue who had never put a single point into strength. It was epic.

//EDIT: Damn, I realized that I can't do that. Need another point in Arcane for Arcane Wall. Moved the point over to finish up Fist of the Maker; I guess Merrill will have to get the Wall if we are to have it at all.

Modifié par Gamemako, 08 mars 2011 - 08:09 .

[Eclipse_9990]

Gamemako wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

 I had an idea like this a while ago.  see? 

Stats:
Mag:Max
Str:Enough to wear all armors.
Will:20
Con:30+10 from Vitality

Spells: 25
Spirit:2
Spirit Strike: 2

Elemental:4
Searing Fireball:2
Winter's Blast: 2

Primal: 4
Rock Armor
Chain Reaction: 2
Tempest

Arcane: 2
Mind Blast (Free)
Elemental Shield: 2

Blood Mage: +25 Health
Blood Magic: 7
Blood Lust: 2
One Foot In: 2 
Paralyzing Hemmorhage: 2
Sacrifice        
                                                                                                                                                                                    
Spirit Healer: +25 Mana   
Spirit Healer: 6                                                                                                                                                                               Healing Aura
Unity:2
Refusal:2
Vitality

The only thing is I dont know how much strength you need to wear all the armors. 

I'll admit, I completely missed the existence of Vitality. If that can be used to meet equipment requirements, you might be able to survive as a non-BM warrior-mage. You start with 10 stat points at level 1 with 3 in DEX+CUN. So assuming you can hit level 25 in a playthrough, you end up with 79 disposable stat points. That's enough for 32 STR / 22+10 CON / 42 MAG / 23 WIL. Of course, you may also fail utterly if you can't get there. Also of import, there may be bonus talents and attributes lying around that would allow you to reach the build's full potential at less than level 25. Let's see if I can modify my build for level 25 to fit everything:

Yeah, I mostly picked vitality for more survivability, plus the +100 HP Regen combined with the strongest armor, and high constitution could be so potentially cheap that had to do this. But why don't you wanna use blood mage? Its just too convieniant for this type of mage build, hell I'm thinking of not even putting a single scrap of points into willpower for this build. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 08 mars 2011 - 08:22 .

[Gamemako]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Yeah, I mostly picked vitality for more survivability, plus the +100 HP Regen,  combined with the strongest armor, and high constitution could be so potentially cheap that had to do this. But why don't you wanna use blood mage? Its just too convieniant for this type of mage build, hell I'm thinking of not even putting a single scrap of points into willpower for this build. 

Don't get me wrong; I love blood magic. I just don't like playing blood mages. It disrupts my defensive-mindedness. I also dislike playing the overpowered classes, though I made an exception for AW because I love magic swordsmen. I did, however, love making Wynne, who I didn't use, a blood mage. Too much irony. Also left Cailan for the wolves. Ah, sweet justice.

[godlike13]

I think this might help some people here. For Blood Mage, through equipment 1 heath can equal to 5 mana. Maybe even more. Now that's not going to make mages less squishy, but one's Con doesn't necessarily need to be that high for casting benefits.

Modifié par godlike13, 08 mars 2011 - 02:45 .

[Tamahome560]

godlike13 wrote...

I think this might help some people here. For Blood Mage, through equipment 1 heath can equal to 5 mana. Maybe even more. Now that's not going to make mages less squishy, but one's Con doesn't necessarily need to be that high for casting benefits.

This taking blood lust into account? If so than equipment can increase BM by 2. Damn spending 20 on con would give 1000 to draw from and that is like almost infinite.

Which parts of the equipment are you referring to? I hope it is amulet or rings. If so than we can use that and spend some points on strength or willpower to get some nice armour/robes

[Gamemako]

No, after the upgrade, it's 3 mana per HP. It's still a RIDICULOUS deal; DA:O only gave you 1.66 mana per HP after IBM (and only 1.25 mana per HP before). Some things were certainly nerfed (Crushing Prison appears to be nigh-worthless now), but Blood Magic absolutely was not.

Also, since Vitality was mentioned, does anyone know if Blood Magic prevents normal health regeneration (i.e. the regeneration which is given a bonus by Vitality)? It would obviously be pointless to have if health regeneration is disabled, but man, if you can wear warrior armor + a 31.25% bonus, that +100 health regeneration has to be comparatively huge...

[Ace Attorney]

Rethinking all of this, here is what I think I would do if I wanted a Battle mage:

Level 0: Ability Name
Level 1: Mind Blast (Free)
Level 2: Fireball (or Chain Lighting if going Primal Focused)
Level 3: Arcane Shield
Level 4: Rock Armor
Level 5: Firestorm (or Tempest if going Primal Focused)
Level 6: Heroic Aura
Level 7: Blood Magic and choose the Blood Mage specialization
Level 8: Grave Robber
Level 9: Sacrifice
Level 10: Glyph of Paralysis or Elemental Shield
Level 11: Bloodlust
Level 12: One Foot In
Level 13: Hemorrhage
Level 14: Fist of the Maker and choose the Force Mage specialization
Level 15: Unshakable
Level 16: Glyph of Paralysis or Elemental Shield
Level 17: Valiant Aura
Level 18: Winter's Grasp (or Stone Fist if going Primal Focused)
Level 19: Cone of Cold (or Petrify if going Primal Focused)
Level 20: Elemental Mastery (or Galvanism if going Primal Focused)
Level 21: Pyromancer (or Glyph of Binding / Repulsion if going Primal Focused)
Level 22: Grim Sacrifice or Paralyzing Hemorrhage
Level 23: Grim Sacrifice or Paralyzing Hemorrhage
Level 24: Searing Fireball (or Chain Reaction if going Primal Focused)
Level 25: Apocalyptic Firestorm (or Strikes Twice if going Primal Focused)

Stat distribution: Alternating 2 Magic/1 Will and 1 Magic/2 Will. When 32 Will is reached, go 2 Magic/1 Con and 1 Magic/2 Con, doing the former only to reach 100% Attack.

I dunno yet if Mage will be my first run though (game arrives tomorrow). If anyone wants to give it a try, be my guest.

Modifié par T3hAnubis, 09 mars 2011 - 07:15 .

[Ace Attorney]

T3hAnubis wrote...

Rethinking all of this, here is what I think I would do if I wanted a Battle mage:

Level 0: Ability Name
Level 1: Mind Blast (Free)
Level 2: Fireball (or Chain Lighting if going Primal Focused)
Level 3: Arcane Shield
Level 4: Rock Armor
Level 5: Firestorm (or Tempest if going Primal Focused)
Level 6: Heroic Aura
Level 7: Blood Magic and choose the Blood Mage specialization
Level 8: Grave Robber
Level 9: Sacrifice
Level 10: Glyph of Paralysis or Elemental Shield
Level 11: Bloodlust
Level 12: One Foot In
Level 13: Hemorrhage
Level 14: Fist of the Maker and choose the Force Mage specialization
Level 15: Unshakable
Level 16: Glyph of Paralysis or Elemental Shield
Level 17: Valiant Aura
Level 18: Winter's Grasp (or Stone Fist if going Primal Focused)
Level 19: Cone of Cold (or Petrify if going Primal Focused)
Level 20: Elemental Mastery (or Galvanism if going Primal Focused)
Level 21: Pyromancer (or Glyph of Binding / Repulsion if going Primal Focused)
Level 22: Grim Sacrifice or Paralyzing Hemorrhage
Level 23: Grim Sacrifice or Paralyzing Hemorrhage
Level 24: Searing Fireball (or Chain Reaction if going Primal Focused)
Level 25: Apocalyptic Firestorm (or Strikes Twice if going Primal Focused)

Stat distribution: Alternating 2 Magic/1 Will and 1 Magic/2 Will. When 32 Will is reached, go 2 Magic/1 Con and 1 Magic/2 Con, doing the former only to reach 100% Attack.

I dunno yet if Mage will be my first run though (game arrives tomorrow). If anyone wants to give it a try, be my guest.

Any comments?

Modifié par T3hAnubis, 09 mars 2011 - 07:17 .

[Tellervo]

T3hAnubis wrote...
This isn't meant to be a tank, it is meant to be a Battle Mage, a caster in the middle of the Battlefield who can take a punch and give it back. 

This is my favorite type of mage and I think I just ****ed a little over this thread.