91 réponses à ce sujet

[Mindr]

Ok, here's my take on the whole Reaper Origins theory.

Like most, I believe that the Reapers are products of a technologically advanced species, at least their synthetic parts. When looking at Sovereign's interior in one of the first cut-scenes of the first game, it would be reasonable to assume that their main function was that of a spaceship.

How did these spaceships evolve from machines into organic-synthetic hybrids? There are many reasons and paths that could have led to that, some of which are:

1. They could have similar origins to the geth, thousands of VIs becoming aware of their existence or the products of AI research of their Creators. While many reasons could lead to them encorporating organics into their systems, I think it would be mainly out of the need to 'become whole', to be able to perceive the world in every way possible, including the way organics see it.

2. The fusion with an ageless machine could be viewed as a form of immortality and union of the Reapers Creators. Self-explanatory. They have been enforcing their views on others by force for millions of years by killing whole species and selectic those they deem worthy to join them in immortality through the creation of a Reaper made with their species' genetic material.

3. Seen as more efficient that just AI, the Reapers' Creators may just have used living creatures' genetic material to produce a being with more capabilities than an AI. Combining the organics' way of thinking/ personality traits with a durable synthetic body that double as a spaceship, those hybrids could process information with the speed of a machine and make tactical decisions based on the organics' traits. What can possibly go wrong with that?

Now, as for their shape: I have noticed that the designers have tried to give each race's spaceships some small traits that hint to their creators. For example, the turian cruisers we've seen, both the one in Shepard's cabin and the one in Zaeed's room have the, as well as those in the first game's cutscenes, have a shape fairly reminiscent of their head fringe.

 Another example would be the Destiny Ascension and the characteristic blue light it emits from the inside of what I assume is its main gun(?), again showing the connection with the asari.

And let's not forget about the dear ol' Quarians: Every single ship in the Migrant Fleet has a ring design on the front side, with the largest ship in sight being ball-shaped on the front in place of a ring, clearly an effort of the designers to point the whole ' no home planet' thing.

So, having established that designers do enjoy to take traits from the species and incorporate them into their ships, lets view the Reapers in the same light. The ones that come to mind first are, of course, the Collectors, whose head obviously resembles the Sovereign's design.

But the Collectors were bio-engineered Protheans, and that's why they have human-like limbs, right?

Why is the Collector General so different then?, We see he is completely different than the rest of them, he has no human like hands or feet , but rather sports insectoid ones. If I had to guess, I'd say that he is part of the species that created the Reapers, it makes it clear why the Reapers bio-engineered the Protheans with elements of their creators' species, they know infinitely more about them than they do about any other species they happened to destroy in their long lives.

TL;DR : Reapers are a product of an organic species that was absorbed by them, with or without their consent, the Collector General most likely is a part of that Species.

[xTHExWARRIORx]

Yea something had to make the Reapers. I bet it's going to mind f*** us.

[rubyreader]

Ravensword wrote...

Other than hanging out in intergalactic space as they are known to do, where do you think they came from? There's no way they originated from the space in between galaxies. Despite what Sovereign might say, Reapers had to evolve from a simple organism, but the fact that they're large space ships is not natural. My guess would be that Reapers were once a technologically advanced sentient race , maybe the first beings in the universe to achieve sentience. It could be that through excessive use of technology to enhance their bodies with cybernetics as a means to improve themselves. Nothing wrong with that but sometimes things tend to get out of control and the next thing you know you're uploading your entire consciousness into a giant space ship. Or maybe the Reapers were created by a race and the Reapers revolted like the Geth revolted against the Quarians.

I refuse to believe that Reapers simply are. They must've come from somewhere. I think that the Reapers simply forgot of their origins but they couldn't have existed since the Big Bang.

What do you people think?

Well it's obvious they had a beginning, they might have even been the first sentient species in the galaxy, though I don't think universe, ~100 billion known galaxies (today) with potentially infinite out there why do they bother so much with this one? And if Reapers ARE everywhere then it really doesn't matter what Shep does, sure hes saving the day but just delaying the inevitable.

And they could most definitely have originated "out there". Things change and there are all kinds of clusters and minigalaxies floating around. It's not LIKELY just as a math equation a major galaxy has more chance for advanced life, but it's possible. But yeah I think they wait out there to conserve energy and not be detected by their next wave of victims.

Ravensword wrote...

Either way logic prevails. Impossible
for them to be around since the Big Bang and for some few billion years
afterwards. I don't know. Maybe some of the astrophysicists can be able
to tell approximately how long after the Big Bang did life start to
evolve and then we can surmise as to when the Reapers were created. They
might've been the first species to achieve sentience in the universe or
created by the first species to achieve sentience in the
universe.

I might have missed something but why would they need to be first in the galaxy let alone universe or even that old? I mean I kinda skip dialogue when it goes to novel like exposition, but I don't recall anything about the Big Bang in regards to the Reapers? Why can't they just be millions of years old menaces? That's already unbelievably ancient.

And any astrophysicist without guessing could only tell you life started oh about 3.5 billion years ago when life started on this planet. No scientist could definitively tell you when life COULD start elsewhere let alone the entire universe as we don't even know what the full possibilities of life (and thus the associated probabilities of those conditions) are yet.

iAmLegion2183 wrote...

Tennessee88 wrote...

I
always believed that an advanced species was faced with extinction so
they convinced their people that salvation resided in Ascension. The
result was the first line of Reapers, which unfortunately held onto that
belief leading to the beginning of the cycle... Ascension became a
religion.

Would make the origin of the Reapers somewhat tragic, which seems to fit Bioware's style.

I've
come to the same conclusion.  I also think the Reapers are life boats
for the universe's inevitable heat death.  They ascend only the best
species to be saved for extinction.

Ugh I hope not. I can accept that humans are particularly diverse among this population of aliens, but "best"? Ugh no.

Modifié par rubyreader, 10 mars 2011 - 05:22 .

[rubyreader]

33percent wrote...

I'm laughing in tears of people who believe in the fairy tale of the big bang. It is by far the most laughable thing I've read. Hell they don't even put THEORY right next to it in the science books. So someone farted, and created the Big Bang out of nothing. Who knows maybe our universe is one giant cell that divides no differently from the cells in our body.

They came some where, and their orgins are no different from how humanity came into existence or any other race for that matter. Now little shepard has ruined their buffet on feasting on us. They are the predator, and we are the pray. I bet they we're created no differently from like the geth but from something, and maybe they destroyed their creator. Thinking their Gods, and now their going to be put in their place by one single human named shepard. Who can ever think one puny human can stop their feasting cycle. Now it's our turn to kicka##, and could care less about their orgins because its matter of out with the old in with the new.

Uh, "theory" is the highest standard in science. Gravity, or at least our mathematics and explanations for how it works is also a theory.You don't get to call something a theory because you might have some explanation for why something happens. You get it when it can explain EVERYTHING (at least currently known) and then can make testable predictions for future phenomena (even ones not known yet) and those predictions over the course of decades are proven right. Like Einstein's space time getting proof 40 years after his death when we could verify that our sun could bend light towards us.

Modifié par rubyreader, 10 mars 2011 - 05:34 .

[Dem_B]

The original idea that the Reapers were living beings.

Most of the ideas in this thread have not received approval, but in this thread is the first time Reapers have been as living beings.
The main thing in this thread - crossing the event horizon.

Most early theory about the motives.

I found this topic very recently, but in terms of the post can be seen that this is the earlier idea.
Motives of the Reapers here differs somewhat from mine, but to be fair I am showing this example.

My personal theory is based solely on my game experience and knowledge.
Short explanation motives and origin.

Reapers are not empty AI they have motives deeper than global destruction.

When millions are processed into jellies, creates a unified consciousness, but consciousness is aware of himself as a representative of the destroyed race. Accepting motives of the Reapers.
- Sovereign: "We are each a nation. Independent, free of all weakness."

For example, all religions talk about life after death, the soul abandons the body, moving to another state of being.
People believe that their life will not end after bodily death. People believe that their soul is immortal.
But nobody can find the material immortality - the bodily immortality.
Therefore, everyone scared to die, nobody knows whether there is in reality a different life.

Perhaps in the distant past Reapers did not wanted to die and have created a way to keep your consciousness in this reality, in the form of an indestructible material form, free of all weakness.
Their body has become the machine, but the consciousness remains the same.
The consciousness of living beings.

I sincerely believe that the Reapers are not ancient Skynet.

Extended my personal explanation motives and origin.

In this topic I'm writing more about the origins and motives of the Reapers, why they have become monsters and decided to harvest. Also in this thread, I tried to imagine who are "Beings of Light " and how they relate to the Reapers.

Modifié par Dem_B, 10 mars 2011 - 08:44 .

[Ravensword]

That's an interesting take on the Reapers. It's not hard to comprehend that they would upload themselves into machines to make themselves immortal out of fear of not knowing what happens when you die. This is very understandable. If there was a way to become immortal, who could say no? Maybe only the ultra-religious who would see such a thing as a test of their faith.

If these beings of light intervened in the fight against the Reapers, that would be nothing less than a blatant deus ex machina. Very unceremonious. It will cause many people to facepalm.

As far as thgins are concerned w/ the whole Big Bang analogy, it's merely an extreme example of how the Reapers aren't as ancient as the believe themselves to be, in case they believe themselves to be a natural part of the universe. Reapers are simply extremely powerful and huge insect/jellyfish/metroid shaped spacecraft. They seem to have huge egos and are very suceptible to butthurt, case in point, Harbinger says to Shepard while the Collector base is falling apart, "You have failed! We Will find another way." How the hell did Shepard fail? How the hell do you call that failing? Collectors being destroyed? Winning!

[Omer D]

mybe the 1 riper was a silicon based life forme that evolved on highly energetic world

[88mphSlayer]

Ravensword wrote...

That's an interesting take on the Reapers. It's not hard to comprehend that they would upload themselves into machines to make themselves immortal out of fear of not knowing what happens when you die. This is very understandable. If there was a way to become immortal, who could say no? Maybe only the ultra-religious who would see such a thing as a test of their faith.

If these beings of light intervened in the fight against the Reapers, that would be nothing less than a blatant deus ex machina. Very unceremonious. It will cause many people to facepalm.

As far as thgins are concerned w/ the whole Big Bang analogy, it's merely an extreme example of how the Reapers aren't as ancient as the believe themselves to be, in case they believe themselves to be a natural part of the universe. Reapers are simply extremely powerful and huge insect/jellyfish/metroid shaped spacecraft. They seem to have huge egos and are very suceptible to butthurt, case in point, Harbinger says to Shepard while the Collector base is falling apart, "You have failed! We Will find another way." How the hell did Shepard fail? How the hell do you call that failing? Collectors being destroyed? Winning!

the only way a beings of light scenario wouldn't make me facepalm is if they're like vigil 2.0, they give us information we need to defeat the reapers as i guess they would be the only thing other than the reapers to have survived the many millions of years of reaper dominance, i think that would be a more tasteful deus ex machina (since everybody tolerated the vigil deus ex machina) as i think it would be a farce not to have a role in the actual defeat of the invasion

[Tarek]

well the reapers are CYBORGS they are not machines...

anyways I think the reapers are an "ascension" attempt gone horribly wrong, some spices was trying to become Gods and ended up becoming giant crazy space ships that think all organic life are beneath them.

or they are a military program gone horribly wrong, some regal race thought they were too awesome to get killed in battles so they made a super defense system AKA reapers to fight for them, unfortunately the new ships thought that by killing all life they will protect their creators from from themselves.

[mesteryoda]

please no light versus dark battle in my mass effect! i like my rpgs with grey spots and none of that beings of light figths the reapers bs, that stuff belongs in japanese rpgs where 13 year old transvestites save the world on a regular basis.

[spurkis]

They are interstellar janitors gone rogue.

[Almostfaceman]

Zelnik wrote...

Hey, how about we DO NOT make this a religious argument thread!

Also, big bang theory deniers are ignorant putzes who prey for a six thousand year old earth. (take THAT, Old kingdom egypt!)

Oh like that hasn't been done before, ask not to start a religous argument then continue the argument at the same time.

Soooo early 2000's trolling.  Turn in your membership card and decoder ring.

[Bendok]

Maybe the reapers themselves are slaves to something even more powerful? Something that has kept them in check. one thing that never made sense to me is that it feels like the reaper's technology has stagnated. They've been doing what they're doing for possibly millions of years, and they are still stuck within the confines of the Milky Way? If they truly were the beings who created the mass relays (Sovereign could have been lying), wouldn't such an advanced race discover inter-galactic travel by now? Why conquer one galaxy when you can have them all?

So maybe the Reapers are just a part of something bigger.

[Tamcia]

I have several theories:
1) An advanced raced sought immortality, but it was not possible to do that with biological bodies, so that transformed their minds into machines, ala Geth - many minds forged into a single entity (a ship in this case, so 1 ship = thousands of minds).
2) Built by some creators, that turned against them like Geth, after realizing some threat they posed (Like in movie iRobot).
3) Built to protect the galaxy from biological life from doing something.

I believe they were built by someone. Might have been in a different galaxy, might be that a different galaxy is "farming" Milky Way, so they are sort of resource collectors.
Maybe its like in the anime "tenjou tenge gurren lagann" - if biological life reaches a certain level, something will happen so they prevent it - this is more with the goal, but I think the two are closely connected.

[88mphSlayer]

Tarek wrote...

well the reapers are CYBORGS they are not machines...

anyways I think the reapers are an "ascension" attempt gone horribly wrong, some spices was trying to become Gods and ended up becoming giant crazy space ships that think all organic life are beneath them.

or they are a military program gone horribly wrong, some regal race thought they were too awesome to get killed in battles so they made a super defense system AKA reapers to fight for them, unfortunately the new ships thought that by killing all life they will protect their creators from from themselves.

well i guess the giant T-101 makes sense now... wait... Cyberdyne... Cerberus... collectors abducting colonies... colonies... Wayland Yutani made colonies... ancient hibernating aliens... beings of light... the abyss... James Cameron... is from Canada, Bioware is from Canada

it all makes sense! 

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 14 mars 2011 - 04:19 .

[Ice Cold J]

Ravensword wrote...

Other than hanging out in intergalactic space as they are known to do, where do you think they came from? There's no way they originated from the space in between galaxies. Despite what Sovereign might say, Reapers had to evolve from a simple organism, but the fact that they're large space ships is not natural. My guess would be that Reapers were once a technologically advanced sentient race , maybe the first beings in the universe to achieve sentience. It could be that through excessive use of technology to enhance their bodies with cybernetics as a means to improve themselves. Nothing wrong with that but sometimes things tend to get out of control and the next thing you know you're uploading your entire consciousness into a giant space ship. Or maybe the Reapers were created by a race and the Reapers revolted like the Geth revolted against the Quarians.

I refuse to believe that Reapers simply are. They must've come from somewhere. I think that the Reapers simply forgot of their origins but they couldn't have existed since the Big Bang.

What do you people think?

I agree that they were indeed created by someone or something. That being said, I don't know if we'll ever know who, since I think they'll remain a nameless race. I don't theink ME is about the Reapers and their history, but how the present galaxy is going to defend themselves against them.

I'm guessing the Reapers probably haven't "forgotten" who made them, but their arrogance and power have made them dismiss their creators as barely worth noting, since doing such would inply that they are not omnipotent and that they, themselves, came form humble beginnings.

Plus, (you may have heard it here first!!!), I am wondering if The Reapers are time-travellers, perhaps in a Skynet-Terminator-type thing where someone created them and they travelled back in time to eliminate them and gain their own "sovereignty."

Bottom line: Of course someone created them. Mechanical life originating from a "big bang" creation story is SOO highly unlikely because of the intricacy of electronics and the lack of it in such a coordinated manner in the real world.

[stu117]

I am the harbringer of their conception....Duh

Modifié par stu117, 14 mars 2011 - 05:03 .

[ThePutty]

They most likely ARE simply there. I imagine when the universe was created with the big bang, the Reapers, or what was before the form we know now existed as well. They were probably some sort of life form not based on physical matter and eventually due to some sort of circumstance had to forge themselves a viable machine body to integrate into

[b1n0ry]

cpt. awsome wrote...

a yes. the meaning of life. you can give up ion this one. we cant even figure out our own origin let alone fictional super machines

At least now we have some ground to do so and get away with it, without offending *ahem* religious fanatics.

[Tarek]

spurkis wrote...

They are interstellar janitors gone rogue.

it might just be true

[atheelogos]

Ravensword wrote...
I think that the Reapers simply forgot of their origins

Yes a massive sentient supercomputer somehow forgot important data.... That makes all kinds of sense.

"but they couldn't have existed since the Big Bang." Why not? I think it's entirely possible for them to be older than our universe. Think big folks. Multiverse instead of universe..... think about it.

[ItsCalledAGeth]

I have a thread called The Origin Of The Reapers (Speculation/Spoilers) and I am surprised that you ripped it off.

[Anacronian Stryx]

I personally think that the Reapers are a product of co-evolution.

2 different species who co-developed into one entity - The host and the Parasite.

Imagine this on some world long ago there was this race of parasites who invaded the minds of another species and utilizing them as host, Now this was beneficial to both species, The host had creativity and mobility while the parasite had rational thinking and ambition, From a point of view one could even argue that they had no beginning because where did the parasite start and the host end, they had for all intent of purpose become one.

Over time this union mastered technology and gradually the host body became more and more cybernetic and so did the parasite(reaper larvae), But something vent wrong, The more they developed the host body though technology the less creative they became (like Mordins ramblings about the collectors) - in the end the reapers who now looked like the huge ships we know and love completely lost the ability to progress so what to do, Hell just harvest the creativity of other races(they are parasites after all) - evolve that way and maybe down the line some new perfect "host" race will show up, somebody diverse and creative enough to push the reapers to the next level.

[JoeClose]

I don't necessarily want to have a full understanding of the Reapers. I find them so compelling because they are unknowable, like Vigil says "they are most like guided by motives organic beings cannot hope to comprehend". It's this ambiguity that makes them awesome to me.

Finding out their true motive could be interesting, but as long as it wasn't a motive that turned the Reapers into a tragic foe. I want them to be entities of evil and unknowable motives.

[Ravensword]

Yes, but BW is staffed by organic beings so we, as organic beings as well, should be able to comprehend their motives.